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 Post subject: Rainbow Cube
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:10 am 
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hi
I just recieved my Puzzzle shop Torito order today

I got me some Rainbow Cubes! :)

so what besides from Dino cube can be obtained with this puzzle?

I while back I made a thread asking for info on some puzzle as Lattice Cube and Master Skewb.

Is the Master Skewb also based on the Rainbow cube?

and is a rainbow Pyramid possible, as well as the Octahedron? when you do half turns you can see the the pieces overlap the others, how do you come across this problem?

thanks!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:46 am 
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I am sure that the Master Skewb is based on the rainbow cube. I can't find it right now, but go to Mr. Okamoto Katsuhiko's wbsite, it shows good diagrams of it.

So what's rainbow pyramid? And I don't think that the magic octahedron can be made from one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:48 am 
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Magic octahedron? The number of axes is different between the two.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:56 am 
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A Magic Octahedron is more or less a cornerless 3x3. And a master skewb cannot be made from a rainbow cube (i think) because a rainbow cube turns on 8 axises, and all skewbs turn on 4.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:01 pm 
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A face turning octahedron can be made by stellating the square faces.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:51 pm 
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I meant the face turning ogtahedron ofc,
J├╝rgen Brandt says some stuff about that on his page.
but I see a problem in movement as the pieces (on the square areas) overlap, as mentioned. should I make the extensions hollow then?

about the master skewb, what could the mechanism then be?

as simple as it looks? :) its like a skewb size pieces have been cut in half, and rail mech introduced? maybe keychain skewb corners are used for simplifying the process? I am so lost.. :(

pyramid.
havent this been done before? it would be a rumbler, sorta half face, half tip turning

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:59 pm 
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Yes, you should make the extensions hollow.

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[02:25] <fusion> does look ahead on a 3x3 make someone faster?
[02:25] <Swordsman_Kirby> Yes.
[02:25] <fusion> maybe i should try that


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:04 pm 
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Scott Bedard wrote:
A Magic Octahedron is more or less a cornerless 3x3. And a master skewb cannot be made from a rainbow cube (i think) because a rainbow cube turns on 8 axises, and all skewbs turn on 4.


A skewb has a 4 arm spider, but if you imagine them extending infinitely, they are the same axes as a rainbow cube, but with deeper cuts. The 4 arm spider is a very clever way to allow the deep cuts.

A rainbow cube's 8 arms actually only define 4 axes, since there are 4 pairs of colinear arms. This is in the same way that the 3 axes of rotation on a 3x3 rubik's cube are realized using 6 arms of a spider.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:56 pm 
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One of the two puzzles is based on the rainbow cube. I want to say it's the lattice cube. The 3 pronged center spiders themselves can be divided into two parts, allowing the end-most part to rotate separately from the other part. if you can do that, then you have the basis for the lattice cube.

That's the tricky part. You can't easily separate the 3 pronged spiders of the rainbow cube into two parts. You almost have to make your own from scratch. This is what puts Katsuhiko Okamoto in a unique position. Not only does he have the vision to draft such pieces, but he also has the means to execute his ideas.

As far as other puzzles you can make with the Rainbow Cube, how bold and daring do you feel? Your own custom SuperX can be fabricated with the Rainbow Cube as the starting point. You'll need one other puzzle to achieve this feat (just look at Adam's excellent 3d models he already posted, the puzzle should just come to you) but at least it's a bit more doable than a Lattice Cube.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
As far as other puzzles you can make with the Rainbow Cube, how bold and daring do you feel? Your own custom SuperX can be fabricated with the Rainbow Cube as the starting point. You'll need one other puzzle to achieve this feat (just look at Adam's excellent 3d models he already posted, the puzzle should just come to you) but at least it's a bit more doable than a Lattice Cube.


Really? I had no idea. But I have to say Adam did create a unique core (to my knowledge) for the Super X. I have version 2.0 and I can see how he did improve it from 1.0. You really have to fiddle with it to understand it! :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:53 pm 
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For me the SuperX falls just on the inside of my "doable" threshold while the Lattice Cube falls just outside of it. I suppose the only way to prove this is to make one. Well, maybe later

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:46 pm 
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I really REALLY want a lattice cube!
I suppose mr. Okamoto doesn't sell any puzzles nor recreates any.

do I have the skills to build myself I dont know, but I have all the time I might need to make it.

as for the 2x layer center pieces I see those as doable. if I got it right there should'only' be added a rotateable triangle tip wich will only support the corner pieces. my problem seems to be to figur out the moving corner pieces, and their feet. I am thinking of a 2x2x4 method for those, but the area available is very limited and I fear that the pieces will fall out during partial turns.

the first question would it be ok to make this puzzle? I will only do it it respect to Mr. Okamoto, and for my own personal amuse.

I will make a progress thread on it, as soon as I get started. for now, I have spent hours sitting and starring at the rainbow pieces trying to figure out a way. but I gotto get busy if I wanna see results

so, off to ask Okamoto :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:11 pm 
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Making the lattice cube isn't as simple as adding an extension piece. You still have to deeply cut into the 3 armed spider that holds the pieces onto the puzzle. It MIGHT be possible to use something like a drill press to hollow out part of the spider. Or you might be able to use a small thin saw to hack away at it. But it's a challenging cut to make on existing pieces.

Once you've done that and created the appropriate "tip," you will see that there is enough room to create tips with extensions that hang long enough to keep the tips secure.

Since Mr Okamoto isn't revealing his secrets for making puzzles, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with making your own personal sample, since ultimately it would only be a speculation as to how he made it. He might take exception with you if you tried to sell it as a "lattice cube" however. Aleh sold the Brillic after all, although I don't believe he knew of the existence of Mr. Okamoto's work ahead of Time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:58 pm 
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Mr. Okamoto's Dino Octa is based on the rainbow cube I think. It is the face turning octahedron but instead of making the built ups on the square faces hollow he added more parts and a more complex mechanism. You might try a bit and find out a way of building that one.
http://puzzle3d.hp.infoseek.co.jp/dino-octa.html
I was already thinking about how it might work a bit. I will later draw some 3d models and see if what i have in mind could at least basically work.

(I haven't posted anything in this forum for a while but I have been reading most of the time though I was completely "absend" for some months. But I am sort of back.^^)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:06 am 
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With the Dino Octa, I'm curious how it would work. Right now, how I'm visualizing it is having the corners of the Octahedron be floating, as well as the adjacent triangles. I don't know how stable it would be though.


Also I was looking at the puzzle today, and was wondering if one could apply the 2x2x4 type knowledge to the square faces and build it up into a face turning octahedron where the tips rotate as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:54 am 
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Quote:
With the Dino Octa, I'm curious how it would work. Right now, how I'm visualizing it is having the corners of the Octahedron be floating, as well as the adjacent triangles. I don't know how stable it would be though.


Yes. The "little triangles" slide along grooves which are in the build ups on the square faces and in the center triangles of the triangular sides. The tips of the octahedron slide along grooves which are in the "little triangles". At least I think that it would work that way.^^

Quote:
Also I was looking at the puzzle today, and was wondering if one could apply the 2x2x4 type knowledge to the square faces and build it up into a face turning octahedron where the tips rotate as well.


A second groove mech for the build ups inside the rainbowcube would be awesome. :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:21 am 
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It's alot like how you build up on a half-truncated cube to make a mastermorphix. I had that idea today for some reason and saw this thread, that's kinda weird.


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