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 Post subject: The easy part is done...!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Finally added this forum in response to this and this, and probably others.

So... who wants to start looking through all the old posts and moving them into the new forum?!?

Sandy


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:02 pm 
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WOW! This is great news! You definitely made a big appearance today! B) Thanks, Sandy! It's a shame that I am not in the position to help with moving topics now.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:07 pm 
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I'd be glad to help move old topics.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:09 pm 
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Yea I'd help too. Heck, my vacation starts in four hours.

I'm still not 100% sold on the idea of a separate forum, but I guess forum traffic nowadays justifies it.

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 Post subject: Re: The easy part is done...!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Sandy wrote:
Finally added this forum in response to this and this, and probably others.

So... who wants to start looking through all the old posts and moving them into the new forum?!?

Sandy

So do we just post links to the threads we propose moving?
Like:
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7128
for example?

Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:29 pm 
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At the very least, we should move all the "Look at this new puzzle I made" threads in General Topics over here.

I'd love to help.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Ah, a fine line. New puzzle announcements should be kept in the main forum. How-to's, questions on how-to, guides, plastics discussion, etc should be here. For example,

Main forum - Check out my new puzzle!

Here - Take a look at how I made my new puzzle!

That's how I think anyway, although strangely enough I still post in the puzzle mods forum when I post about my newest builds on the cubrimania Spanish forum... :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:55 pm 
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No, I think new puzzle mods and announcements about them should be put here.

"The place to discuss all things related to puzzle building and modding."

Besides, there arn't many threads about how to build puzzles.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:09 pm 
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I agree with Thom. If you made a new puzzle, then you would post it in the forum about making new puzzles :) Why put it in general topics when it is a specific topic about a puzzle you made?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:19 pm 
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Well, look at how it is with speedcubing - you generally don't see speedcubing topics in the main forum, because they are in the speedcubing forum. If you want to read announcements about speedcubing, or make an announcement like that (even if it is a very big, important announcement) that's where it goes.

I think it should be the same way with puzzle mods and new puzzles. We're all used to seeing them in general topics, but in the end it ought to be the same way as speedcubing: any thread that's related to puzzle building should be in this forum, which would make it easier to search for old puzzle mod threads, easier to check for puzzle building news (such as updates on the Olympic Cubes), and easier to check on all the latest puzzle builds (because there are less random / general threads to look through to get to what you want).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Thank you very much!!!!!

We finally have a section devoted to puzzle building.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:38 pm 
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This is excellent! Thank you Sandy!!!

I plan to make a post which will include all link to my designs. For example, it will be titled "Pantazis' puzzle designs".

Maybe everyone of us should do something similar for the time being?

:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:33 pm 
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It wouldn't hurt.

In fact, here's an idea: make a stickied topic where you would post all of the newly designed and created puzzles that were posted here, organized into categories (for example: 3x3x3 shape modifications, Skewb shape modifications, extended puzzles, cuboids, NxNxN cubes...) or by creator. If someone who has been here for a long time makes the topic, and then edits it whenever they find another puzzle in the archives, that would make it really easy to find what you're looking for.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:42 am 
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Unfortunately not all of us are as innovative as you are, Pantazis! :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:43 am 
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Sandy didn't reply here yet, but actually what I guess should happen is that one or two member could be given the right to move (physically) topics to the new section of the forum. Just making links is good, but not quite good. Hope you understand what I'm saying. 8-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:03 am 
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I like that idea, it will be much faster than waiting for Sandy or Sausage to get around to it, and much easier on the mods parts :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:05 pm 
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Thom wrote:
No, I think new puzzle mods and announcements about them should be put here.

"The place to discuss all things related to puzzle building and modding."

Besides, there arn't many threads about how to build puzzles.


Puzzle-building techniques and topics obviously belong in the Puzzle Building forum because they aren't general-interest discussions.

But I contend that "New Puzzle" announcements belong in the General forum because they are general-insterest announcements, not limited to just puzzle builders.

Look at who responded to past threads for guidance as to which forum a particular subject belongs in. Threads like "what should I build" or "will this mod work" mostly provoke responses from other puzzle builders. Announcements about new puzzles yielded enthusiastic responses from the community at large, such as the Helicopter Cube and Cylinder-1.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:11 am 
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VeryWetPaint wrote:
But I contend that "New Puzzle" announcements belong in the General forum because they are general-insterest announcements, not limited to just puzzle builders.

Perhaps this is one of the rare occasions where posting the same message to both forums is appropriate.
I can believe that with a puzzle building and market place forum, some people might not follow the General forum as closely, and it would be a shame to miss these announcements.

Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:30 pm 
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Okay, I've arbitrarily picked Aleksey, Bryan and qqwref (the first three people to offer their help) and temporarily granted them moderator rights so that they can move all the old puzzle building topics into this forum.

Everyone else, let's give them a little time to do their job before we start posting links to any other threads we later discover that should be moved into here.

I'm currently making my way through the most recent 1700 threads to catch up on what's happened since I left, so I'll be moving the ones that I stumble across.

Aleksey, Bryan and qqwref, thanks for your help with this. I will send you a PM in about 15 minutes that will explain how to do everything.

Sandy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:59 pm 
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Sandy wrote:
Okay, I've arbitrarily picked Aleksey, Bryan and qqwref (the first three people to offer their help) and temporarily granted them moderator rights so that they can move all the old puzzle building topics into this forum.

Everyone else, let's give them a little time to do their job before we start posting links to any other threads we later discover that should be moved into here.

I'm currently making my way through the most recent 1700 threads to catch up on what's happened since I left, so I'll be moving the ones that I stumble across.

Aleksey, Bryan and qqwref, thanks for your help with this. I will send you a PM in about 15 minutes that will explain how to do everything.

Sandy



Now this is brilliant!!!
Well done guys and thanks to all the volunteers, the Building Forum is already filled with a lot of goodness!

:)



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:47 pm 
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Sandy wrote:
Okay, I've arbitrarily picked Aleksey, Bryan and qqwref (the first three people to offer their help) and temporarily granted them moderator rights so that they can move all the old puzzle building topics into this forum.

Sandy


This is what we sort of need for the database to be updated because no one person can or should do it by themselves. What do you think?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:30 am 
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Quote:
This is what we sort of need for the database to be updated because no one person can or should do it by themselves. What do you think?


Yep, already working on it. I've got code that will allow various levels of contributors to the site (currently limited to the puzzles and links, but will be expanded to new features as they become available). This will allow anyone to create new entries and modify existing entries (as before), to upload pictures (new), and will give moderators the rights to approve those updates so that they appear on the site for everyone to see (new).

Sandy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:41 am 
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Sandy wrote:
This will allow anyone to create new entries and modify existing entries (as before), to upload pictures (new), and will give moderators the rights to approve those updates so that they appear on the site for everyone to see (new).
Sandy


Excellent!
I'm particularly happy about uploading pictures! It would be great if the database will continue to be updated!
Thanks Sandy, you are a star!
Vadim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Aleksey, Bryan and qqwref have completed their passes through the General forum and have moved some 800+ threads in here.

Thank you all for your help. Can you tell I'm glad I didn't have to do it!? Heh!

Now would be a good time to post links to those threads that were missed, if anyone cares to get really obsessive about this.

Sandy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:59 pm 
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Actually I feel pretty strongly against the idea that this is the "announce new mods here" forum.

If this is to be the case, as a matter of principle can you change the description so it's called "new puzzle mods / puzzle building" or something to that effect? The forum description as it stands says nothing about showing off a new mod (just building methods in general) and I still think a new puzzle is better suited for General anyway.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:01 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
Actually I feel pretty strongly against the idea that this is the "announce new mods here" forum.

If this is to be the case, as a matter of principle can you change the description so it's called "new puzzle mods / puzzle building" or something to that effect? The forum description as it stands says nothing about showing off a new mod (just building methods in general) and I still think a new puzzle is better suited for General anyway.


I hope I'm not just repeating myself, but I strongly agree with Jin H Kim on this. (But I'm also grateful to diltwin for his comments above, which inspired me to broaden my perspective.)

Wouldn't it have been a tragedy if Okamoto's Void Cube hadn't been posted to the General forum? It provoked hugely enthusiastic responses, including speed-cubers and others who study the mathematics (algs), many of whom obviously weren't puzzle builders.

Admittedly, that thread also spawned discussion and debate about how it had been built, which certainly could belong in a Puzzle Building forum. But that discussion really belonged in a separate thread!

If Okamoto's Void Cube had been released today, the main thread would belong in the General forum. The earnest debate about its construction (theories, diagrams, etc.) should've spawned a thread in the Puzzle Building forum. The casual comments about how it was built (magnets, rails, etc) might be okay on either thread.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:29 am 
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So at what point would it go into the puzzle building forum? If it was yet another 3x3x5?

Are there people out there that don't want to click on the puzzle building forum ever? I can quickly click on a forum, and if the topics don't interest me, don't read them and mark all topics read.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:42 am 
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Bryan wrote:
So at what point would it go into the puzzle building forum? If it was yet another 3x3x5?

Are there people out there that don't want to click on the puzzle building forum ever? I can quickly click on a forum, and if the topics don't interest me, don't read them and mark all topics read.


Exactly.

With all the respect to everyone in the forum, I think that building and announcements of new puzzles, *both* belong to the building forum.

Because those anouncements, as well as the discussions that can start, are about something newly built, right?

It is then up to the people who are interested to see new designs to check out the corresponding algorithms and any issue about them, by just changing forum. And if they really want to continue to expand on solutions etc, they can use posts of the building forum as a reference to open such a discussion at the general or speedsolving forum with a new post.

That way, evereyone stays by their own interest at all times.

:)



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:38 am 
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Bryan wrote:
Are there people out there that don't want to click on the puzzle building forum ever? I can quickly click on a forum, and if the topics don't interest me, don't read them and mark all topics read.


I always click on View posts since last visit.
Then I only read the topics that interest me.
Before leaving I mark all the topics as read.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:26 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
With all the respect to everyone in the forum, I think that building and announcements of new puzzles, *both* belong to the building forum.

Because those anouncements, as well as the discussions that can start, are about something newly built, right?

It is then up to the people who are interested to see new designs to check out the corresponding algorithms and any issue about them, by just changing forum. And if they really want to continue to expand on solutions etc, they can use posts of the building forum as a reference to open such a discussion at the general or speedsolving forum with a new post.


True, I agree that building and new puzzle announcements are both perfectly appropriate to this forum. Sorry I didn't express that properly.

I intended to suggest that new puzzle announcements should not be restricted to the Puzzle Building forum.

Okamoto's Void Cube and Tony Fisher's 9x9x9 generated interest because they were interesting puzzles, not just because they were custom built. Judging from the responses they generated, they would have warranted a mention in the general forum in addition to any discussion in the Puzzle Building forum.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:09 pm 
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Perhaps there is a way to make a sort of shadow topic, so that the topic would show up in Puzzle Building and General Topics but the topic itself would be only in Puzzle Building? I think that that would suit everyone.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:12 pm 
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VeryWetPaint wrote:
I intended to suggest that new puzzle announcements should not be restricted to the Puzzle Building forum.


yes, very well said, that is the correct wording!
So it seems that we actually agree 100%

:)




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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:33 pm 
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VeryVetPaint is usually very careful with words and usually uses very precise and succinct wording. 8-) VeryWetPaint, are you in the legal business, if you don't mind me asking? :?: 8-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:03 pm 
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VeryWetPaint wrote:
I intended to suggest that new puzzle announcements should not be restricted to the Puzzle Building forum.


I agree with this comment too. Without projecting my preferences on anyone else, I plan to post building/prototype info here, but I wouldn't feel restricted to the building forum if I had a new custom I thought was of general interest.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:17 pm 
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By general consensus among us three temporary moderators, we've moved all these topics to the new Puzzle Building section of the forum. While I do somewhat agree that in some cases new custom puzzles are of general interest, I feel that posting them here and there in General forum would simply dilute it all. Keeping things here would be keep things more organized, I believe. There's no trouble to look in this section of forum to see if there's something that interest you. Like I do with the Speedcubing section even though I do not speedcube at all.

EDIT: So, at 1000 posts I am a mature forum member now, I guess. 8-)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:33 am 
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Aleksey wrote:
By general consensus among us three temporary moderators, we've moved all these topics to the new Puzzle Building section of the forum. While I do somewhat agree that in some cases new custom puzzles are of general interest, I feel that posting them here and there in General forum would simply dilute it all. Keeping things here would be keep things more organized, I believe. There's no trouble to look in this section of forum to see if there's something that interest you. Like I do with the Speedcubing section even though I do not speedcube at all.


Many thank to you Aleksey, and everyone else who has helped to organise even better this forum. :)

I agree with your comment for the speedcubing. You never know if an interesting post will pop up in another forum. Because simply, each and every one of us has a vast variety of interests, and it's impossible for others to know when those interests intersect.



Aleksey wrote:
So, at 1000 posts I am a mature forum member now, I guess. 8-)


ok, now you have automatically entered the secret 6x6x6 society. Everyone who had reached that number had received after six days a 6x6x6 cube from Georges, and then kept it for another six days, before returning it back. Check your mail soon! 8-)

Georges sorry for revealing your secret! :P



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:54 am 
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kastellorizo wrote:

Aleksey wrote:
So, at 1000 posts I am a mature forum member now, I guess. 8-)


ok, now you have automatically entered the secret 6x6x6 society. Everyone who had reached that number had received after six days a 6x6x6 cube from Georges, and then kept it for another six days, before returning it back. Check your mail soon! 8-)

Georges sorry for revealing your secret! :P

Pantazis


Grrrr!
As the last seven 6x6x6 cubes I sent out haven't yet be returned, I seriously think about no longer sending them.
I will instead wait for someone to reach the 7x7x7 status to send a 7x7x7 for 7 days.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:01 am 
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Oh damn it! If I knew I'd be getting a 6x6x6 cube I'd post in every topic I'd see, even in that true/false game topic. I'd have even created a lot of new topics for that! Come on, George, you know me, I can't want that long for a 7x7x7! :oops:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:19 am 
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Hey, I've had a 6x6x6 ranking for 11 days, and I haven't received anything! Do you think you could mail me an 11x11x11 instead to make up for it? :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:46 am 
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Aleksey wrote:
VeryVetPaint is usually very careful with words and usually uses very precise and succinct wording. 8-) VeryWetPaint, are you in the legal business, if you don't mind me asking? :?: 8-)


I think the key word here is "usually" precise. I got a bit sloppy back there, but luckily everyone responded constructively. (Thanks, everyone.)

No, I'm not really in the legal business. I've prosecuted a few patents and testified in intellectual-property litigation, but not as a legal expert.

I have a strong knack for "Formal Languages and Computation", a mathematical specialty, so that's probably the source of my overly-precise wording and (often) nit-picky interpretation of other people's wording. :oops:

Getting back on-topic, I definitely don't object to moving the old custom-puzzles threads to the Puzzle Building category. I didn't say so because, being overly-precise (ie: nit-picky) I was concentrating on something else!

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