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 Post subject: Face turning cubes?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:16 pm 
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Have a look at the second video mentioned here:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/spe ... sage/31404

The inside view shows a 3x3 which also allows pure face (not layer) turns. I think it's equivalent to the centers of a 5x5. Can it be built from a 5x5? I'm fairly sure a face turning 2x2 can be built from a 4x4 just by extending the centers and adding large surface squares. Correct? Has someone done this yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Face turning cubes?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:41 pm 
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Stefan Pochmann wrote:
Have a look at the second video mentioned here:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/spe ... sage/31404

The inside view shows a 3x3 which also allows pure face (not layer) turns. I think it's equivalent to the centers of a 5x5. Can it be built from a 5x5? I'm fairly sure a face turning 2x2 can be built from a 4x4 just by extending the centers and adding large surface squares. Correct? Has someone done this yet?


When seeing the Babyface Cube (faceturning 2x2x2 from 4x4x4) I had an idea of how to make it from an ES 2x2x2, by extending "cubies" as if to make a 2x2x4, but for all faces. And that the cubies were only to be flat lying on top of the ES core. Would probably not turn as well, but would be a bit smaller.
I guess this techneque (if it works, havn't tried yet) could be used on a regular 3x3x3 by cutting an extra groove into the middle layer (and outside of each face and inside the groove of every center) of the cube, and into it insert the "flat cubies"... To prevent this modding from damaging the functionality of the cube, it might be needed to extend the original cubies to give more room for the grooves...

I think the person who made the Babyface Cube (don't remember who right now) had plans on making a face turning 3x3x3 out of a 5x5x5, bu I don't know how that project came out, if it was ever started/finished...

As far as I know a faceturning 3x3x3 is the same as the centers of a 5x5x5, at least if you define a face turn as say turning the top layer, and a layer turn as turning the two top layers...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:52 pm 
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Hi :-)

I don't think the people making the video had the intention to make a rubiks cube with extended functionality. I just think that they made silly mistakes. Oh well, anyway, this reminds me of another extension of the standard cubes, the gliding cube.

What would we call such a cube anyway? Face-turning cube?

-Per

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:20 pm 
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perfredlund wrote:
Oh well, anyway, this reminds me of another extension of the standard cubes, the gliding cube.

What would we call such a cube anyway? Face-turning cube?


Yeah, me to...

Isn't gliding Cube good enough as a name?

I have spent the last halfhour to figure out a way to build that puzzle, it's hard...
Maybe I will come up with an idea in two years or so... :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:33 pm 
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Yeah ok, could be a bit large. But if you just glue a flat plastic sheet square onto each 4x4 center piece (large enough to also cover the two adjacent edges and the corner) and truncate the edges and corners enough so they rotate behind that new surface? The issue I see the most trouble with is: how to turn a face.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:48 pm 
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viewtopic.php?t=5098&highlight=babyface

It might be able to be done with a 5x5 (To a 3x3). It would be easy if you didn't care about all the pieces being uniform, but if you did, It would have to be curved on some of the inside parts to allow the 'corners' to travel under the edges. (The visible edge would have to overlap some of the actual corner. [Think Tony Fisher 2x2x6-esque])

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:55 pm 
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Ah yes, I think I had actually seen Mike's thread before but forgot, sorry. How did he do it? Extend or truncate? And yes, I'd like the 3x3 version with uniform pieces better and I thought about it first after watching the video but then realized the 2x2 would be easier to build.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:19 pm 
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Stefan Pochmann wrote:
Ah yes, I think I had actually seen Mike's thread before but forgot, sorry. How did he do it? Extend or truncate? And yes, I'd like the 3x3 version with uniform pieces better and I thought about it first after watching the video but then realized the 2x2 would be easier to build.


For Baby Face cube I truncated only the corners. At first I was going to cut down the edges too so they slide behind the faces, but you have to cut into them pretty deep, so I went the other route of building the faces up 3mm. This lets the un-cut edges slide behind the faces.

I can get a photo for you but not right now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:05 am 
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This video makes me think of the inside of a 5x5x5. Would it be possible to make a functional 5x5x5 with a 3x3x3 removed from it's center? Say make the 5x5x5 out of clear plastic and put the 3x3x3 stickers on the inside. That would give you a volume that behaves as you see in the video and I think would make one very cool puzzle.

Anyone ever try something like that?

Carl


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:26 am 
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I just did a quick check to see if a circular track would be able to fit within the outer cubies of a 5x5x5.

Image

Looks like in principle then its possible to make a hollow 5x5x5. I think I once saw a hollow 3x3x3 that also missed the face centers. It's been a while so I'm not sure where I saw it now but I do think a similiar technique would allow for a hollow 5x5x5.

Carl


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:32 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Say make the 5x5x5 out of clear plastic and put the 3x3x3 stickers on the inside.


Hmmm... just a few days ago Tony Fisher asked where he could buy transparent cubes.

Thomas


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:46 am 
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And one other question that has now popped up in my mind. Assume such a hollow 5x5x5 existed. Now also assume you could place a perfectly sized 3x3x3 inside this hollow 5x5x5. If one were to solve the 5x5x5 does it necessarily follow that the 3x3x3 inside is also solved? I don't think so... but I'm not sure I can prove it. My thinking is the 3x3x3 inside isn't locked to the inside of the 5x5x5. The hollowed out space behaves like a 3x3x3 which also has pure face turns, this is an extra degree of freedom that the 3x3x3 inside doesn't have.

What do the rest of you think?

Carl


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:26 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Now also assume you could place a perfectly sized 3x3x3 inside this hollow 5x5x5. If one were to solve the 5x5x5 does it necessarily follow that the 3x3x3 inside is also solved? I don't think so... but I'm not sure I can prove it.


You are correct. See my post here:
viewtopic.php?t=622#3234
which refers to Singmaster's Cubic Circular here:
http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/cubic5.htm#p16

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:29 am 
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i actually came up with a fairly simple solution to the face-turning cube...
you do as Jin describes in this post http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4204&highlight=3x3x5 but on all faces of the 3x3x3.
and instead of keeping the extended layers full-sized you cut them down to about 2mm, that will give you a fully functional 3x3x3 face-turning cube (allthough it won't be perfectly cube-shaped)

atleast that's how i would attack this problem :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:32 am 
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jaap wrote:
You are correct. See my post here:
viewtopic.php?t=622#3234
which refers to Singmaster's Cubic Circular here:
http://www.geocities.com/jaapsch/puzzles/cubic5.htm#p16


WOW!!! Thanks...

Now if someone wants to make a clear hollow 5x5x5 with a 3x3x3 inside it I'd sure be willing to buy one. The same would hold for a clear hollow 4x4x4 with a 2x2x2 inside. Now I think that would make for one cool set of puzzles.

Also I really enjoyed the links you found. I was partically interested in what was called "Daniel's pieces" and from that I found this link:

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=591

Did the secret of these little cubes ever come out? I think you might be able to make something that would work in this fassion out of electrets but I'm not sure that is what he used? Is there anything since 2002 on this topic? I'd love to know more...

Thanks...
Carl

P.S. pHeTe, I just noticed your avitar. Is that a photo of a real puzzle? If so I'd love to know more. Thanks...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:49 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
P.S. pHeTe, I just noticed your avitar. Is that a photo of a real puzzle? If so I'd love to know more. Thanks...


nah, just image editing :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:41 pm 
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This is just a larger version of the Babyface puzzle. Mike makes them, and i believe he is already working on a 3x3 version.

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