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 Post subject: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:39 am 
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Hello,

The Icosacopter is a deepcut, edge-turning icosahedron. It is deepcut because the center pieces (the middles of the edge) are in no way able to connect directly to the core. More about this will be posted later by Muffet on the Twistypuzzles forum in the puzzle building section.

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This puzzle was a cooperative project between Sharon Avidor and Matthew Ray (Muffet). The puzzle concept was thought of by Sharon, and the designing was followed through by Matthew. We talked back and forth hundreds of times about the puzzle and were both very excited to see it come to life. There were many puzzles that we looked at before choosing this one, but I am sure we are both very happy that we decided on the Icosacopter.

The puzzle is 53 mm to an edge, similar to Bob Hearn’s Face Turning Icosahedron It is stickered with twenty Colors, with like colors on opposite sides. Stickers were machine cut by Dr. Sticker.


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Jumble move 1 -

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Jumble move 2 -

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Jumble move 3 -

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PS. We did no lube this puzzle so far.

Enjoy!

-Sharon-

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Last edited by Sharon on Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:41 am 
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Good thing I didn't start the design! Great job!!! :shock: Jumbling :mrgreen:

What's amazing is the number of pieces especially :)

- Greg

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:42 am 
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AMAAAZING!! :shock:

This puzzle takes my breath away! Will it by any chance hit Muffet's Shapeways shop?

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Last edited by Sigurd on Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:48 am 
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Great job to the both of you!

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:05 am 
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Great Puzzle!
:shock:

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:12 am 
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Gelatinbrain 2.3.2, but with curvy cuts. Nice!

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:14 am 
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Rob wrote:
Gelatinbrain 2.3.2, but with curvy cuts. Nice!


The idea of this puzzle came much before we saw the 2.3.2 on Gelatinbrain.

and its not exactly the same but with curvy cuts.

-Sharon-

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:22 am 
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Wow, that's really amazing. :D I don't think that it is actually deep cut (I might be wrong though). :?

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:25 am 
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Nice one guys!!! It is really good to see more teamworks,
they tend to result to some exceptional outcomes.

And this puzzle, it really looks classy!

:)


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:25 am 
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That's a brilliant feat of design, I'm in love with it! It's always nice to see a new mechanism / puzzle come into existence that hasn't been made before :mrgreen:

-DC


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:26 am 
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APJ wrote:
Wow, that's really amazing. :D I don't think that it is actually deep cut (I might be wrong though). :?

Alex


When an edge is turned, surrounding edges turn with it, so it's deep cut :)

Greg

P.S: Do you mind shapemodding this into a FTRT please?

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:48 am 
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Awesome. Who doesn't love puzzles with > 12 axis?

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:00 am 
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Sorry guys, I slept in this morning so I am a little behind :lol:

I will post some more about the puzzle as Sharon said in the puzzle building section.

Glad it got it to you safely Sharon. :D


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:12 am 
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Really really nice puzzle here, but it is NOT deep cut. Examples of true deep-cut puzzles are the Pentultimate, 24-cube, 2x2x2, Skewb, and Big Chop. A puzzle is only deep-cut if each slice divides the puzzle exactly in half.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:21 am 
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Very beautiful puzzle! It turns so well! I'm just in awe!

-π (Eitan)

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:32 am 
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Garrett wrote:
Really really nice puzzle here, but it is NOT deep cut. Examples of true deep-cut puzzles are the Pentultimate, 24-cube, 2x2x2, Skewb, and Big Chop. A puzzle is only deep-cut if each slice divides the puzzle exactly in half.



Hmm, I may be wrong but I simply thought those were true deep cut puzzles, but there were different levels of being deep cut, such as the deeper cut Face turning Icosahedron, this name of this puzzle confused me I suppose.

anyway building post is up.


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:26 pm 
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Brilliant! I love it. An excellent example of creativity that people can produce. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Deep cut or not, it is a fantastic work and really a challenge to solve.

Great job!

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:27 pm 
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What a beast of a puzzle. It seems like it would get incredibly confusing ad complicated very quickly!
Amazing job, guys.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Muffet wrote:
Garrett wrote:
Really really nice puzzle here, but it is NOT deep cut. Examples of true deep-cut puzzles are the Pentultimate, 24-cube, 2x2x2, Skewb, and Big Chop. A puzzle is only deep-cut if each slice divides the puzzle exactly in half.



Hmm, I may be wrong but I simply thought those were true deep cut puzzles, but there were different levels of being deep cut, such as the deeper cut Face turning Icosahedron, this name of this puzzle confused me I suppose.


Eric (gingervergo) and I have had this discussion before, and we decided to call puzzles that have the cuts going through the origin of the puzzle "Origin-Cut" (like the 2x2, the 24 Cube, and the Skewb, which are the three possible origin-cut puzzles of a cube). For puzzles that are not cut in half by their cutting planes, but are deeper-cut than what has previously been done, we call them "Deep-Cut". That's why I called my recent FTI the "DeFTI", as the cuts were deeper than any of the face-turning icosahedra that had been made so far.

-pi (Eitan)

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:44 pm 
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That is a very nice looking puzzle! I imagine when fully jumbled it would be a beast to solve.

pirsquared wrote:
For puzzles that are not cut in half by their cutting planes, but are deeper-cut than what has previously been done, we call them "Deep-Cut".
But that brings in the problem of someone making something new that is slightly deeper than your DEFTI. should it then be called deeper than deeper cut or do you have to change your puzzles name :lol: I do like the idea of calling deep cut puzzles Origin cut though as it's a little more descriptive than deep cut.

I'm a little confused how there was such a large thread discussing, and reaching a conclusion, of what deep cut meant and yet there are four separate, very different definitions mentioned in this thread alone :?

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:11 pm 
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That is a really, really excellent puzzle. Great job.


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Very nice, excellent creation.
I love it :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:03 am 
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Great puzzle. I think it is funny how you planned to use screws but discovered you didn't need them.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:41 am 
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Thanks for all the nice comments.

I will put it for sale on eBay sometime this week.

-Sharon

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Now on ebay!

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:54 am 
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You shouldseriously consider putting this on shapeways :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:05 pm 
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I know that if you put it up on Shapeways I would buy it without a second of a doubt. I can't see this being a big problem, as all you have to do is upload it to Shapeways, and get a load of cash from sales. PLEASE UPLOAD IT!!! :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Please don't upload it! Although I really really want one, a cool thing about this puzzle is it's one of a kind.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:21 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Please don't upload it! Although I really really want one, a cool thing about this puzzle is it's one of a kind.



Thats exactly why were not uploading it. even if we would put it up for sale on shapeways I assure you it would still be out of most peoples price range. This is very likely to be the only one you guys ever see.


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:59 pm 
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oo my gawd thats insane xD

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Muffet wrote:
PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Please don't upload it! Although I really really want one, a cool thing about this puzzle is it's one of a kind.



Thats exactly why were not uploading it. even if we would put it up for sale on shapeways I assure you it would still be out of most peoples price range. This is very likely to be the only one you guys ever see.


Sometimes I laugh at the posts I see :lol: . Why wouldn't the creators of this want their product on shapeways (besides self profit)? Chances are that an exotic puzzle such as this will NEVER be mass produced right? Knowing this, wouldn't the creators want to allow their product to find as many homes as possible to share the joy of the hobby we are all here for? I understand that having a "one of a kind" puzzle is nice and in fact awesome but it does not follow a greater good for the puzzle community. Why spend so many hours creating 1 puzzle if only 1 person will play with it? :lol: If this were to hit shapeways in a few months, I think your purpose of making this puzzle will be much more fulfilled (regardless of price). At least inside you will know that the puzzle was offered to everyone to enjoy. Again, I understand the VALUE aspect of building such a puzzle but the part where others can enjoy such a wonderful puzzle is left out.

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:37 pm 
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I agree with Chris here. You say it will be too expensive, well then surely it won't sell as many then. It's not like you have to pay to upload it to Shapeways. You'd also make a fourteen year old boy very happy. :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Sorry guys, I understand exactly what you mean and where you are coming from, but for now this one is staying off of shapeways.


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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Muffet wrote:
Sorry guys, I understand exactly what you mean and where you are coming from, but for now this one is staying off of shapeways.


At least not all hope is lost. :wink: May I ask you why you plan not to put it up on Shapeways? Apart from the obvious part of really irritating the winner of the auction. :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:03 pm 
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SEBUVER wrote:
Muffet wrote:
Sorry guys, I understand exactly what you mean and where you are coming from, but for now this one is staying off of shapeways.


At least not all hope is lost. :wink: May I ask you why you plan not to put it up on Shapeways? Apart from the obvious part of really irritating the winner of the auction. :lol: :lol:


I asked muffet not to put it up on shapeways.

We only started this project to make a very unique puzzle, the purpose was not to make money
out of it and not to see it mass-produced ( I know it won't be, too complicated and too many parts )

Sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:44 pm 
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mizzle576 wrote:
Muffet wrote:
PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Please don't upload it! Although I really really want one, a cool thing about this puzzle is it's one of a kind.



Thats exactly why were not uploading it. even if we would put it up for sale on shapeways I assure you it would still be out of most peoples price range. This is very likely to be the only one you guys ever see.


Sometimes I laugh at the posts I see :lol: . Why wouldn't the creators of this want their product on shapeways (besides self profit)? Chances are that an exotic puzzle such as this will NEVER be mass produced right? Knowing this, wouldn't the creators want to allow their product to find as many homes as possible to share the joy of the hobby we are all here for? I understand that having a "one of a kind" puzzle is nice and in fact awesome but it does not follow a greater good for the puzzle community. Why spend so many hours creating 1 puzzle if only 1 person will play with it? :lol: If this were to hit shapeways in a few months, I think your purpose of making this puzzle will be much more fulfilled (regardless of price). At least inside you will know that the puzzle was offered to everyone to enjoy. Again, I understand the VALUE aspect of building such a puzzle but the part where others can enjoy such a wonderful puzzle is left out.

Chris


I think this is unfortunately a little bit more complex. Things to be considered:
- quality and uniqueness of the puzzle design
- price for the first (unique) puzzle

As the buyer of the first puzzle is usually both a collector who also thinks about the value of the (yet) unique puzzle and also a sponsor, who enables builders to continue their creative work, it is difficult then:
- find an appropriate price when publishing a puzzle for reproduction (Shapeways, Meffert's or others)
- refund (?) for the first buyer, if considered to be reasonable, as the puzzle becomes non-unique and maybe even technically improved.

..and so on. I agree, that it always better to have a puzzle reproducable at a reasonable price for many people. So far builders have mostly been very cautious about professional reproduction. I would NEVER disagree to multiply a puzzle for all interested puzzlers as long as collectors aren't cheated ;) If the Shapeways price is still very high, this might be a reasonable compromise. The most important factor for me is the personal contact with the builder. Fairness and communication always wins :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Including the words "this is the first ever created, it will be for sale on shapeways later" into an auction will solve all those problems.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Namegoeswhere wrote:
Including the words "this is the first ever created, it will be for sale on shapeways later" into an auction will solve all those problems.


lol.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Sharon wrote:
Namegoeswhere wrote:
Including the words "this is the first ever created, it will be for sale on shapeways later" into an auction will solve all those problems.


lol.


Also, writing a certificate together with the puzzle would do a whole lot I think. The #1 of a puzzle is bound to be more worth than the next ones.

But refusing to let everybody else purchase, I would "sorta" call that "work goes to waste"! Spending hours and hours on designing the 3d file, then make only one puzzle. You have got to be kidding me!

Please let anybody enjoy your work!

Now the reason we sometimes hear: "The price will be too high". Let us decide that! Simple!

also, I have never designed a puzzle. So I might misunderstand something here. I am open to new info that would make me chane my mind.
I think I have said this before tho, if I were to come up with something genious, then I would do anything to let others enjoy it together with me!

(actually I have an invention, but I do not have the funds to realize it (nope its not a puzzle) and that kills me! I would just LOVE to get it massproduced! And thats not because of the profit! because I know alot of people would just love have one of these) I made a prototype myself.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:20 pm 
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Sigurd has summarized it perfectly. It's such a marvellous piece of art, you're sorting of chucking away it's potential. If it's too expensive, people won't buy it, simple as that. You don't lose any money putting it up on Shapeways, you'll only earn money. Please consider! :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:02 pm 
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For now the the Icosacopter will be up on ebay for one time only,

we MAY consider selling it again in the future (the winner of this auction will have to accept it aswell).

-Sharon-

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:04 pm 
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Sigurd wrote:
Sharon wrote:
Namegoeswhere wrote:
Including the words "this is the first ever created, it will be for sale on shapeways later" into an auction will solve all those problems.


lol.


Also, writing a certificate together with the puzzle would do a whole lot I think. The #1 of a puzzle is bound to be more worth than the next ones.

But refusing to let everybody else purchase, I would "sorta" call that "work goes to waste"! Spending hours and hours on designing the 3d file, then make only one puzzle. You have got to be kidding me!

Please let anybody enjoy your work!

Now the reason we sometimes hear: "The price will be too high". Let us decide that! Simple!

also, I have never designed a puzzle. So I might misunderstand something here. I am open to new info that would make me chane my mind.
I think I have said this before tho, if I were to come up with something genious, then I would do anything to let others enjoy it together with me!

(actually I have an invention, but I do not have the funds to realize it (nope its not a puzzle) and that kills me! I would just LOVE to get it massproduced! And thats not because of the profit! because I know alot of people would just love have one of these) I made a prototype myself.


I think a much more important reason which we never hear out loud is that you can easily make a lot of money from putting a unique item up for sale.

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 Post subject: Re: The Icosacopter By S&M
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:39 pm
Location: Marquette, MI, USA
You can ask all of the builders on the forum and they will all tell you that there isn't a lot of profit from selling custom puzzles. Most of them cost a bunch to produce and make in the first place, and then most builders take any profits and put them towards new projects, which is exactly what Sharon and I are planning on doing. We both have more ideas that we want to see, so all of you who want to see more cool puzzles like this keep bidding.


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