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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:39 am 
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Well, if you just solve the pieces one by one with commutators you'll only get one parity, and you can solve that by turning the top half of the cube 90 degrees.

Incidentally I've tried to solve the master skewb for a while, but never got it... perhaps I should give it another shot now :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:10 am 
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It was much easier than I thought it would be. I could cut my time in half easily. So you can do it in around 7 minutes tops or something. =P

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Fine, if you're going to force me to figure it out :(

6:19 (forgot to copy certificate)
253m:
34879b0fda441b8c883bb62e0b98ee31
a2e7a4349219b932cbac26b1f86259c4
97602fd29b6b37c69e6f3ddb7690ec12
5ea1bc436e91dc237a85f40bd926b34c

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Which one is that though?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:26 pm 
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qqwref wrote:
Well, if you just solve the pieces one by one with commutators you'll only get one parity, and you can solve that by turning the top half of the cube 90 degrees.

Incidentally I've tried to solve the master skewb for a while, but never got it... perhaps I should give it another shot now :)


I can solve the first layer, but I can't place the "corners" on the top layer.. I can only get two and if I try to place a third I screw the other two up. I usually just solve a Dino edge section and then place it accordingly.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:39 pm 
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So now that Michael has finished the Master Skewb too, lets see how we did it.


I don't know how he did it, but I essentially solved 4 of the corners, making it very similar to an Offset Skewb. Then I just paired the "centers" and solved like an Offset Skewb. It was the most fun I've had using these applets in a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:11 am 
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Someone please help me here.. this is driving me insane..


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superxagain.PNG
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:54 pm 
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Noah: Yes, it's the Master Skewb. I didn't expect some kind of Spanish Inquisition. But here's how I did it:
- Solve corners and centers like a normal Skewb.
- Solve edges with inner slice commutators.
- Solve the squares with a 10-move 5-cycle (and a 22-move 3-cycle).
Fun? I didn't think master skewb was very fun, compared to other puzzles I've tried. But I'll try your way some time.

X: It's just a parity... very very simple. Just treat each piece as a single piece, and then you can do a 3-cycle of pieces, right? So just turn the top half of the puzzle 90 degrees like I said, and then solve EVERYTHING using only piece 3-cycles. Don't do any 2x2 turns except as setup moves.

EDIT: Noah, your way is a bit more fun and easier, but I couldn't get the last two corners so I had to do it with commutators at the end. How do you do the last two corners, hm?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:27 pm 
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Okay.. I did that.. at least I think so. I don't really know any 3 cycles, but I rotated the top layer 90 degrees, then put everything back together, and got an even uglier parity.. now I have two edges switched and one is flipped :?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:48 pm 
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Don't know any 3-cycles? It's just commutator stuff. Here, try this one: L UFR' L' UFR (L is the left half, UFR is the UFR corner). It sounds like what you have is two 2-cycles, so you can do two 3-cycles (commutators like this) to solve it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Well, I guess I did know that. I don't know how to apply it though. Basically what I'm doing is solving one face of the cube, then all of the "edges" surrounding it, then solving the last layer (until I hit parity).

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:04 pm 
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c8fb62ba2771e4e916b72c7598ce31e5
1aef34e219cd32a758bbb09c623bc497
6827d0996426c88a613fc2698911135e
a1bc436e91dc237a85f40bd926b34c79


Huzzah! I am the puzzle king.

1060 moves. 1:18:28. (1 hour, 18 minutes and 28 seconds)

http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... xa_fv9.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:26 pm 
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Well.. I decided to take a break from the Super X and try the Pyraminx Crystal. I solved the bottom layer by pairing edges with corners and sliding them together, then I solved the corners that connect the bottom and middle layers, then I paired two edges with one corner and did that fives times to complete the middle layer. Now I have all of the last layer corners oriented, but two are flipped.. this is getting frustrating.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:07 pm 
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Well, I finally solved something that was actually somewhat impressive. Figures I get something like this BEFORE I can even figure out a Pyraminx Crystal >.>

Image

My method was what would be expected:
1. Solve centers
2. Solve edges
3. Solve like Megaminx

No parity.. though the last two centers can be a bit stubborn.

On a side note, someone in another thread was talking about a 4x4x4 equivalent to a Megaminx, wouldn't this be it?

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Last edited by ­­X on Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:00 am 
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For 2 edges flipped.

Three cycle, set up move, reverse 3 cycle, undo set up move.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:25 pm 
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I solved 1.2.1. 23:53. I know it's a pathetic time.. but I'm proud of it nonetheless :D

EDIT: Went back through it and got 8:23. I can live with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:06 pm 
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­­X wrote:
On a side note, someone in another thread was talking about a 4x4x4 equivalent to a Megaminx, wouldn't this be it?


That was myself... actually now that I look at it, its a void 5x5 in Megaminx shape, I don't know how to express that correctly, I hope that explains it though. but no, it wouldn't be a 4x4 equivalent....


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:51 pm 
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I get what you're saying. But I think that since it doesn't have any set centers, it could be considered as much. I have no idea how you could cut it so that there would be only two segments to an edge though.

EDIT: Okay, I mocked this up in a few minutes. It looks cool, but the "second layer" is completely not functional. Now, you could make it functional in theory the same way that the edges only cube works.. which would be awesome.. but that would be quite a task.


Attachments:
quadraminx.png
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:37 pm 
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After looking at X's drawings of a 4th order minx I have another idea(Hope you don't mind I
'painted'(I don't have photoshop)your picture), the 2nd layer turn will turn across the red line like the overlapping cube(I hope it's possible)


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File comment: I've only edited the white face to save time
quadraminx.png
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:49 am 
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That's the clearest picture of what I'd think of as a 4x4 megaminx that I've seen so far. If you wanted to make it functional you'd probably need some kind of weird internal-grooves system, because the centers would have to go *under* the edges when you do a turn. You could make it icosahedral or spherical without too much difficulty (and I'd like to see this on gelatinbrain ;-) ) but a dodecahedral puzzle would be very difficult to design.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:04 am 
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So Michael, I think I finally got one on you.

http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... xa_fv9.htm

I'm really proud of that one.

Gelatin Brain: If it isn't too much trouble, could you change all of the entries under the name "Noah" to "Noah Hevey"? If it is a hassle, don't bother.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:07 pm 
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Congratulations Noah, but I haven't tried much to solve the hard puzzles, it's so hard to find algs sometimes :) I think the real person you should be trying to beat is Doug, he's solved a lot more of the non-trivial puzzles than I have.

One day, I'll go through and figure out and beat all the puzzles either of you have ever done, though... maybe this summer :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:28 pm 
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It was actually not that hard in retrospect.

What the hell am I saying? It was. 26 move 3 cycle for the small center triangles. About 13 set up moves.

Lets see...

As of now...

Doug:
1.1.5
1.1.7
3.3.3*
3.3.5*
5.3.1*
5.3.2*

* - Accomplished before logging solves

Micheal:
1.1.7
1.2.2


Noah:
2.2.8d
3.4.10
3.6.2


I should finish off 1.1.7. I mean, I wrote a solution to it even. I just never sat down and put an hours worth of work in.

I can also finish off all of the Dogic/Vertex Turning Icosahedron color schemes, it's just a matter of putting plenty of time in.

I'm still impressed with 1.2.2.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:48 pm 
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Noah wrote:
It was actually not that hard in retrospect.

What the hell am I saying? It was. 26 move 3 cycle for the small center triangles. About 13 set up moves.

Lets see...

As of now...

Doug:
1.1.5
1.1.7
3.3.3*
3.3.5*
5.3.1*
5.3.2*

* - Accomplished before logging solves

Micheal:
1.1.7
1.2.2


Noah:
2.2.8d
3.4.10
3.6.2


I should finish off 1.1.7. I mean, I wrote a solution to it even. I just never sat down and put an hours worth of work in.

I can also finish off all of the Dogic/Vertex Turning Icosahedron color schemes, it's just a matter of putting plenty of time in.

I'm still impressed with 1.2.2.


I can't even fathom the kind of parities that you'd get on that monster. Astounding.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:02 pm 
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Which puzzle are you talking about? I can give you information on almost all of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:08 pm 
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3.4.10

I attempted that thing once and just about smashed the computer screen in. I'm just no good at hexahedral puzzles besides the standard Rubik's and the ever-so-trivial Dino Cube.

EDIT: I'm giving it a go now. So far I have three centers done. It's turning out to be a bit tame now for some reason..

EDIT 2: You know what, never mind. This thing is still a nightmare.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Step 1) Solve the Super-X pieces. Parity #1.

Step 2) Solve elongated triangle pieces. Parity #2, separate orbitals. Parity #3, odd permutation.

Step 3) Solve centers with a 3 cycle commutator. Parity #4, 2 centers swapped. Can be solved using the 3 cycle, however you need set up moves like none other. So I'll count it as a parity anyways.
----------

By the way, if you're interested here's my center 3 cycle.

(R U R' U R U2 R2 U' R U' R' U2 R) drb (R' F' R F' R' F2 R2 F R' F R F2 R')

Once you get the concept, you can adjust accordingly.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:35 pm 
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No wonder I couldn't get far. I was going backwards..

And I should probably figure out the SuperX before I even attempt this.. which I still can't do. I just can't seem to figure out the parities. I turn the top layer 90 degrees and solve everything over again, but that usually produces an even worse parity.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:46 pm 
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Noah wrote:
Gelatin Brain: If it isn't too much trouble, could you change all of the entries under the name "Noah" to "Noah Hevey"? If it is a hassle, don't bother.

It's done. Use the full name from now on.
And it's meaningless to paste the certicafate here. Don't do that. Only when your record doesn't register within 24 hours, send it to me by pm please. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:57 pm 
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qqwref wrote:
That's the clearest picture of what I'd think of as a 4x4 megaminx that I've seen so far. If you wanted to make it functional you'd probably need some kind of weird internal-grooves system, because the centers would have to go *under* the edges when you do a turn. You could make it icosahedral or spherical without too much difficulty (and I'd like to see this on gelatinbrain ;-) ) but a dodecahedral puzzle would be very difficult to design.

Is it not the same thing as 2.2.10b?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:08 pm 
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I've only been posting them here, as I generally don't save them to a file.

As for the name, Thank you very much and I will use the full name from now on.

And yes, it is 2.2.10b.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:18 pm 
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I think making it anything besides a dodecahedron would kind of take away the whole Megaminx part of it, which is the entire point. It'd be fairly easy to make that design icosahedral, but dodecahedral on the other hand...

EDIT: Okay, 1.2.2 = satan


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gah.PNG
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:08 am 
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http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... a_fve0.htm

Ridiculously easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:56 am 
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Alright Noah, here's a real challenge for you. Beat the rightmost 1.3 puzzle (the one that says 1.1.2 + 1.2.3, but is actually 1.1.3 + 1.2.2). Took me 32:16 and 717 moves, so... enjoy :D

And I'm pasting the certificate just in case... don't wanna lose this one.
a819a2378519a532c6c82ab7f1621bc4
d0a540d2ef6443c8f29554c313898e13
5ea9bc416e85dc267abcf402d920b34e
7986f20db946738ce916d32c6798ce31

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:33 pm 
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Grr...

I still can't even beat 1.2.2.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:39 am 
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Okay, I solved that 3.4.10 one (Fat SuperX). I did it in more or less the same way as you, but with more optimizations and fewer parities. 608 moves, 22:53.
1) Solved edges like a SuperX. Here's the only parity.
2) Solved long triangles. Since centers don't matter, this is even more efficient than on the Fat Dino Cube. I used 4-move commutators to place most of them, and then commutators like [URB' UFL URB UFL', UFR] to do 3-cycles.
3) Solved center triangles, using variations on Noah's algorithm. Generally I used either a J perm commutated with a corner turn, or a two-corner twist commutated with a corner turn. Any algorithm that only affects two of the 2x2 blocks can be turned into a nice 3-cycle this way, but I only know these two. The corner twister is very useful but I still had horrible setups at the end.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:55 pm 
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This puzzle is out to get me Michael.

Image

[edit]
Solved it.
[/edit]

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:12 pm 
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Noah wrote:
This puzzle is out to get me Michael.

Image

[edit]
Solved it.
[/edit]


Ouch. What was your approach?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:47 pm 
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I used Michael's.

qqwref wrote:
I solved 1.2.2. Don't read the rest of the post if you don't want spoilers.

The easiest 4-move commutators seem to cycle three corners and three triangles, so I used them to cycle triangles at first, and then to construct corner 3-cycles afterwards. So my method was:
1) Solve edges (intuitive, flip two with a commutator)
2) Solve triangles (4-move commutators plus some interesting setups)
3) Permute corners (8-move corners commutator)
4) Orient corners (16-move commutator to orient two corners, plus parity fix to orient the last one)
It took 41:29, which isn't too bad, but I think that with a better method (and a better parity fix, it took me about 8 minutes because I turned the corner and then resolved the three edges, then the triangles and finally the corners that that messed up) I could get a significantly quicker time.



Didn't take as long as I thought it would to decipher how to do each thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:05 am 
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Wow, I completely overlooked that. I'm not too good at that.. I just started arranging pieces and went from the bottom up :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:35 am 
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I solved the combination one.

Sorry GelatinBrain! I accidentally sent only my first name on that one. >_< Sorry about that.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:07 am 
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http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... ca_fv0.htm

I'm too sleepy to do this... *yawn*

Image

500 moves, 25 minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:39 am 
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I would just like to point out, this still doesnt work on my mac.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:28 pm 
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Finally solved the Pentultimate.

44:11
971 moves

I could do much better.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:08 pm 
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I still can't get the SuperX.. I don't know how to apply these stupid 3-cycles.. anything that I do just messes up the cube more..

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:01 pm 
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If there's any consolation, The Super X is the puzzle that gave me the hardest time out of all of these puzzles.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Yeah.. I don't think I'll ever be able to do it unless someone walked me through fixing the parity. I'm just no good at this type of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:38 am 
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Finally put some time in to solve something that wasnt a Dino Cube :P

Pyraminx Crystal 474 turns, in 40mins. It was my first time, so I don't mind it was soo slow! I borrowed my Bro's laptop, so I could put in the time to do it (It's still not working on my mac)
I've done the first layer, and first and second layer corners before, but never further than that. I borrowed a comm from qqwref to orient the corners, other than that it was all my own work.
I saw that qqwref permutes and then orients the LL edges, but I direct solved them (one alg had a 5-10 move setup!)

Phew :) Now, I need to try another puzzle :D

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:06 pm 
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joey wrote:
I would just like to point out, this still doesnt work on my mac.

I'd like to help you, Joey, but I need more infos for that. First of all, I want you to do a simple test:
Surf on https://jogl-demos.dev.java.net/applettest.html with your mac, and tell me what happens.
Do you see an animation picture?
If not, do you see any message on "Java Console" ?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:45 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
joey wrote:
I would just like to point out, this still doesnt work on my mac.

I'd like to help you, Joey, but I need more infos for that. First of all, I want you to do a simple test:
Surf on https://jogl-demos.dev.java.net/applettest.html with your mac, and tell me what happens.
Do you see an animation picture?
If not, do you see any message on "Java Console" ?


Thanks, I would love this to work on my mac.

Yes, that link works on my computer.

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