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 Post subject: Tria-flips etc *update with demo video*Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:09 pm

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
Hi everyone!

It has been a very long time since my last update for the triaflips (triangle magics).
Last time, I still had not figured out the stringing pattern, as it is a very complex one.
That is, stringing two together is one hard thing to do. But stringing more in a row,
was an almost impossible challenge, because of the large amount of overlaps,
especially for one tile connecting two other ones.
All this time I was desperately trying to "decode" the multiple-tile stringing way.

I would love to happily announce that I have overcome this problem,
and I have finally devised a technique to string them fast and efficiently.
Needless to say, that automatically means, that they will be presented at this year's puzzle competition.

Also, unlike the square magics, they are too simple (because of the string overlap limitation),
but because of this same reason, they are much stable and can be safe to play with,
when creating open loop triaflips (something not possible with the square magics).
I have decided to use a (very easy) tetrahedron theme and not an octahedron yet.
(I think there will be only nine combinations of which the right one should be chosen to create an tetrahedron)

Regarding the penta-flips (pentagonal magics), let me finish off the tria-flip project, and then I'll move to this ones LOL
(the nice thing is, the multiple tile stringing method, should logically work for those too).

And yes, I have literally "flipped" out because of this... it is 8am here now, and I need some sleep!!!

Pantazis

PS1. The tetrahedron tria-flip (aka tria-tetra) will not my only puzzle at the puzzle competition.
There will be another one too. And it won't be a folding one!
PS2. io, I will be contacting you very soon!

Last edited by kastellorizo on Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:31 pm

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:13 pm
My goodness, let me be the first to congratulate you! I would LOVE to see photos of a fully stringed one if possible, a video would be even better. once again, congrats!

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:37 pm

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 8:50 am
Location: chicago, IL area U.S.A
That is incredible! I look forward to seeing it at the competition this year.

Any chance you will be selling them anytime soon?

-d

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:41 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
You've got me very intrigued by the second p.s.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:13 pm

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
cliffahn wrote:
My goodness, let me be the first to congratulate you! I would LOVE to see photos of a fully stringed one if possible, a video would be even better. once again, congrats!

Thanks! I plan to finish the first complete puzzle made of triangle tiles by the end of this month.
I could make a video with the little "chain" I have now, but I want it to look perfect and have some theme!

darryl wrote:
That is incredible! I look forward to seeing it at the competition this year.

Any chance you will be selling them anytime soon?

-d

Yeap, I might not be able to make it to the IPP this year, but the tria-tetra will!
(I might find some better name for it LOL)

Regarding selling them, it will eventually happen, but that will depend on many parameters (free time, strings, tiles etc).
The four tile (Tetrahedron) will not be trivial, but also not very hard.
The eight tile (Octahedron) though, should be a good challenge.
I still have not decided which one will go to the competition, but I need to construct them first!!!
The main thing is, I can now string them safely, without breaking any strings any more like I did in the past.

Noah wrote:
You've got me very intrigued by the second p.s.

The second one, or... the first one?

Pantazis

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:46 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
The second half of the first PS and the whole second PS.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:33 am

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
Noah wrote:
The second half of the first PS and the whole second PS.

Regarding the first ps... it should be a pleasant surprise. The puzzle is between "testing mode" and "designed mode" right now.
(3d printing is being used).
I just came up with some nice idea last week, and I immediately went on to materialise it.

Regarding the second ps... io has made some exceptional triangle tiles for his tetrex,
which can also be used for creating triaflips. My tiles are bigger, but his seem to be finer.
I hope I can receive some of his triangles soon!

Pantazis

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:08 am

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Ah. I thought the second has something to do with the first. That's what you get when you assume.

So, this secret puzzle, care to share more info? Is it a twisty? Has it been made before? Has the concept been discussed here before? etc.

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:33 am

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
Noah wrote:

At this stage just a little bit of info. I am pretty sure it will be a great puzzle,
but I rather save the hype till it is built and tested.

Noah wrote:
Is it a twisty?

It is as much as a twisty puzzle as the Biohazard is LOL
(but it has absolutely nothing in common with David's excellent puzzle).
It is a one-piece easy-to-solve mathematical puzzle, and it is based on some nice and natural movement between a disclosed number of equal parts.

After this, I think I said waaaay too much!

Noah wrote:

Not to my knowledge.

Noah wrote:
Has the concept been discussed here before? etc.

Never. Not even close.

Pantazis

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:49 am

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: Marin, CA
kastellorizo wrote:
I hope I can receive some of his triangles soon!

Pantazis

This is great to hear! I look forward to seeing tria-flips in motion. I'll get some tiles going...

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:19 pm

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
I have included a video demonstrating the movement of the triaflip.
To make things clear, I am holding the triangle on the bottom,
and rotate the other triangle around it.

(quicktime, around 7.5Mb. I didn't want to put it on youtube so that it won't lose any image quality)

Some of the strings get misplaced, but this is because there is no 45 degree angle at the edges.
Obviously, this is why io's triangles will be very useful for me.

Pantazis

PS For those who saw the prototype at the IPP27, there is nothing new.

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:39 pm

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:40 pm
Location: Marske-By-The-Sea, UK
Oh boy! Must watch.

Oh dear, Quicktime, I refuse to install it

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:47 pm

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Fantastic!

_________________
Fridrich
3x3 PB 22.63
3x3 Av 30.57

25, Male
Started cubing Oct 15 '05

Out of the game, but not completely.

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: Marin, CA
Wow! That is great to see. And now I see the benefit the bevels will give you. It will allow tighter strings without making movement too difficult, right?

Your new triangles are machining now. A few more days, and I'll have enough to send!

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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:29 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA
kastellorizo wrote:
Some of the strings get misplaced, but this is because there is no 45 degree angle at the edges.
Obviously, this is why io's triangles will be very useful for me.

This seems like something a small file could solve in a few minutes. I can understand not wanting to do this for production models, but wouldn't it be worth it for a prototype?
As to angles, keep in the theme of the puzzle and think in threes: Make it two 30 degree faces. 45 degrees is so (shudder) *square*

Dave

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:59 am

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
Thanks guys!!!

Pembo wrote:
Oh boy! Must watch. First Reply! Oh dear, Quicktime, I refuse to install it

That is my current camera's format. I am sure there are other software
which can also play quicktime (e.g. realplayer).

io wrote:
Wow! That is great to see. And now I see the benefit the bevels will give you. It will allow tighter strings without making movement too difficult, right?
Your new triangles are machining now. A few more days, and I'll have enough to send!

Yeap! Thanks io!

DLitwin wrote:
This seems like something a small file could solve in a few minutes. I can understand not wanting to do this for production models, but wouldn't it be worth it for a prototype?
As to angles, keep in the theme of the puzzle and think in threes: Make it two 30 degree faces. 45 degrees is so (shudder) *square*
Dave

LOL you are right, I am trying to make a version which is sufficiently hard.
Maybe two different 4-tile parts making an octahedron? All suggestions welcome!
Regarding the angles, it is something I thought about a lot.
I am trying to find the mean of smooth movement and the corners being less sharp.
30 degrees is what logic says for making 3d-shapes,
while 45 degrees is what logic says to preserve the strings from being cut.

*still deciding*

Taylor wrote:
Pantazis, On the "real ones", not the prototype is the triaflip going to be 2 seperate pieces so you can place a paper insert?

I will print some theme, but before doing that, I really need to think of a theme.
And before even that, I have to think of a form of the puzzle which will not be too easy!
This is why they are still blank. But at least now, I know how to string it fast enough.
(which is still slow compared to the square magics, as the complexity requires considerable time,
but much faster than I used to do it a couple of months ago).

Pantazis

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 Post subject: Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:19 am

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:24 pm
Location: Carnegie Mellon
are you limited to rotating around the piece in one direction only or can you do both? (clockwise in the video)

will the completed puzzle have alternating directions of rotation?

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:18 am

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Capital of Culture 2010
Pembo wrote:
Oh dear, Quicktime, I refuse to install it

Just use VLC.

Q

_________________
"This maze is so confusing." - Pinky

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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:58 am

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
QUINBLZ wrote:
are you limited to rotating around the piece in one direction only or can you do both? (clockwise in the video)

will the completed puzzle have alternating directions of rotation?

We are talking about odd number of tiles here with strings which will eventually overlap.
Therefore, the puzzle can move clockwise and anticlockwise,
but after one round of movement you will have to go back.

I must also state that even with super loose strings, the puzzle is extremely stable.

***********************

Final decision for the format of the puzzle.

As much as I prefer to create one-piece puzzles, this one may have to be more pieces.
My decision is to have two 3-tile pieces (obviously, both open). The solution will be a
hexahedron (triangular dipyramid), whose triangle sides will follow a maze pattern.

The total different combinations is 36, but the solution won't be so obvious,
as the puzzle will need some geometry skill as well as observing the continuity of the line.
I will keep the transparent form and will not use any paper inserts, just draw lines,
so that when in hexahedron form, it can look like a jewel (solved or unsolved).
It will be a geo-mathematical puzzle, which will look good, move smoothly,
and will be very friendly to use for all ages of puzzlers.

Pantazis

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:59 am

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
Taylor wrote:
How long until they're for sale? I really want to get one of your puzzles

Let me build one complete puzzle first, and then we can think of the other steps.
I will avoid to give exact dates because of the "OC syndrome" that some of us have.

Pantazis

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:34 pm

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:19 pm
But I want it now Now NOW NOW!!!

hehehe just kidding. But the best of luck with this Pantazis. They look fantastic!

Well, you know you have a customer here as well. (So you can take this as a pre-pre-pre-order).

_________________
http://www.rockstargames.com/V/

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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:52 pm

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 2:51 am
Location: New Ulm, Minnesota, USA
Taylor wrote:
reeeech wrote:

Well, you know you have a customer here as well. (So you can take this as a pre-pre-pre-order).

You mean customers!

Don't you mean a lot of customers?!?!?!

_________________
Darren & Traiphum's Dual Helicoptrahedron
X-TownCuber wrote:
Are my eyes deceiving me, or is this the coolest puzzle ever?

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