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 Post subject: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:51 am 
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Hi Twisty Puzzles fans,

Krystian's Disk is an invention by Krystian Wilisowski. It is a disk built of 24 segments in six sectors. The sectors can shift with respect to each other, enabling different ways that the segments can be rotated.

Watch the YouTube video.
Buy the puzzle at my Shapeways Shop.
Read more at the Shapeways Forum.
Check out the photos below.

Enjoy!

Oskar
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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:16 am 
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A brand new twisty puzzle! Amazing. It looks great, I'm sure that there are an almost limitless arrangement of cuts you could have. And of course you could put pictures on the faces instead of just colours. What about calling this a Planaris (latin for planar) puzzle? Although you would have to have some way of describing the pattern of cuts as well if this is just the first in a series.

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:06 am 
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:shock:

Very nice puzzle alright! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:08 am 
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Does the mechanism prohibit you from completely sliding apart to halves of the disk?

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:17 am 
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Nice... It looks like a combination of this:
Image
and this:
Image

I'd be tempted to call it the Radioactive Hurricane. Nice looking puzzle. Is that version 2 on the back functional? Or is it just stickered to look like it has all those extra pieces?

Carl

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Last edited by wwwmwww on Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:47 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
As that version 2 on the back functional? Or is it just stickered to look like it has all those extra pieces?
There is only one prototype. One side has the simple six-sector stickeing.The other side has the complex looks.
Zem wrote:
Does the mechanism prohibit you from completely sliding apart to halves of the disk?
That is correct, although there are ways to pry the puzzle apart.

Oskar

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Very interest!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:28 pm 
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Oskar wrote:
wwwmwww wrote:
Is that version 2 on the back functional? Or is it just stickered to look like it has all those extra pieces?
There is only one prototype. One side has the simple six-sector stickeing.The other side has the complex looks.
I noticed that... I wanted to know if those extra cuts on the back are real/functional. Or is it just a different stickering of the same puzzle on the front?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:55 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
I wanted to know if those extra cuts on the back are real/functional. Or is it just a different stickering of the same puzzle on the front
There are no extra cuts on the back. Without stickers, both sides are the same.

Oskar

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:21 pm 
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I really like this!

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:24 pm 
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So on this face:
Image
You cannot turn the six circles, and you applied those very tiny stickers just to confuse us poor mortals :?

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Very clever concept!! I would say it should be entered into the IPP except that since Oskar had something to do with it, it's unfair... Or rather ineligible.

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:52 am 
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darryl wrote:
Very clever concept!! I would say it should be entered into the IPP except that since Oskar had something to do with it, it's unfair... Or rather ineligible.

-d


Actually, I hope it is eligible. As stated by Oskar, the Disk is an invention by Krystian Wilisowski.
Does have it 3D printed by someone from the judges team make it ineligible?

Well, in any case, it would be absolutely great (in my humble opinion) to see it at the competition.
Such simple yet amazing puzzles are exactly what is needed in our puzzle world!

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:53 am 
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Will there be a version with a clicking mechanism?

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:54 am 
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kastellorizo wrote:
darryl wrote:
Very clever concept!! I would say it should be entered into the IPP except that since Oskar had something to do with it, it's unfair... Or rather ineligible.

-d


Actually, I hope it is eligible. As stated by Oskar, the Disk is an invention by Krystian Wilisowski.
Does have it 3D printed by someone from the judges team make it ineligible?

Well, in any case, it would be absolutely great (in my humble opinion) to see it at the competition.
Such simple yet amazing puzzles are exactly what is needed in our puzzle world!

:)


Pantazis

I believe what he was saying is that this puzzle is guaranteed to win and therefore gives it an "unfair" advantage over the rest of the entries. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:04 am 
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Amazing!

After Pantazis' posting I have to ask:
Krystian Wilisowski conceived the idea and maybe made some sketches. But you, Oskar, designed it in CAD, right?

As for the challenge:
Could the design go from three cuts upwards to four cuts?
Could the design have two circles in different sliding depth?


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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:57 am 
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BN wrote:
Will there be a version with a clicking mechanism?
You are correct in observing that the physical design leaves much room for improvement. The first prototype was too tight and did not slide, unless excessive force was used. This is the second prototype. It has enough play for sliding moves, but is already feeling wobbly. A clicking mechanism would be essential, as the pieces misalign rather easily. Also, there are some cheat moves that allow - with a little bit of force - to take the puzzle apart despite the end stops.
Andreas Nortmann wrote:
Krystian Wilisowski conceived the idea and maybe made some sketches. But you, Oskar, designed it in CAD, right?
Correct.
Andreas Nortmann wrote:
Could the design go from three cuts upwards to four cuts? Could the design have two circles in different sliding depth?
. Krystian provided me with many designs based on his new concept. Recognizing that these are difficult to implement, I asked Krystian to provide me with the simplest possible design within the concept. This is the result.

By the way, there is a third type of rotation possible, one that is different from the two types on the photos. Can you find what it is and what it does?

Oskar

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:57 am 
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Oskar wrote:
By the way, there is a third type of rotation possible, one that is different from the two types on the photos. Can you find what it is and what it does?
Here is the one you are looking for:
Attachment:
DiscTurn.png
DiscTurn.png [ 223.13 KiB | Viewed 1971 times ]

These are illegal with the current design, but if pieces are allowed to pass through each other there are 2 more potential moves:
Attachment:
DiscTurn2.png
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Attachment:
DiscTurn3.png
DiscTurn3.png [ 177.51 KiB | Viewed 1960 times ]

Could things be redesigned to allow the illegal moves above? The surface of the puzzle would clearly no longer be flat but I'm not sure this can be pulled off. If anyone can do it Oskar can.

Carl

P.S. This Puzzle reminds me of this Table. Seeing what George Miller did here, makes me wonder if this might be what his next piece of furniture looks like.

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Another interesting observation. If a move is considered as follows:

(1) A combination of slides away from circular.
(2) A rotation.
(3) A combination of slides to restore the circular shape.

Then this puzzle is doctrinaire. However if the cuts on the back were active then I believe it would become a jumbling puzzle. See this new possible move.
Attachment:
DiscTurn4.png
DiscTurn4.png [ 295.93 KiB | Viewed 1912 times ]


Carl

P.S. Just noticed the only rotation that would be possible in this state would be a 360 degree rotation. So more sliding cuts would need to be added to make this jumbling.

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:06 pm 
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I don't really think this should be called a "twisty" puzzle it's more of a sliding puzzle like the 15 puzzle

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:21 pm 
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Who cares how it's classified, it's simply beautiful! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:02 am 
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I know they say a picture is worth a thousand words, but I will galdly settle for a fraction of that if anyone could provide a description to let the blindman wrap his mind around this puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:31 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Oskar wrote:
By the way, there is a third type of rotation possible, one that is different from the two types on the photos. Can you find what it is and what it does?
Here is the one you are looking for:
Hmmm... I never answered the "what it does question". And I'm not sure why I didn't see this before but this move does nothing. It only allows a 360 degree rotation so it doesn't help with scrambling or solving the puzzle at all. Of the two illegial moves I showed, the first is also a useless move as again it only allows 360 degree rotation. The second illegal move though is interesting as it would allow 120 degree rotation. The single slide move you showed only allows 180 degree rotation. And the other move you showed allows 60 degree rotation. So this 120 degree move I think could be interesting if it could be enabled.
michael1234252 wrote:
I don't really think this should be called a "twisty" puzzle it's more of a sliding puzzle like the 15 puzzle
To me its a combination... it has slides but the actual scrambling is accomplished by rotating pieces about an axis, i.e. twisting.
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
I know they say a picture is worth a thousand words, but I will galdly settle for a fraction of that if anyone could provide a description to let the blindman wrap his mind around this puzzle.
Boy that is a hard one. The puzzle is a circle cut into 6 identical 60 degree pie slices. The pie slices are free to slide along their adjoinging edges, thus taking the puzzle out of its circular shape. If slides are made along more then one diameter at a time then a void opens up in the center of the puzzle. Each pie slice is cut into 4 pieces by cuts which are arcs of circles. The radius of the arc cuts is all the same but in the solved state the center of these circular arc cuts is offset from the center of the puzzle along one of the 3 diameter cuts.(the point at which the 6 pie slices meet).

Now lets look at the pie slice which would be centered on the y-axis, let's call it the top pie slice. And lets call the sliding cuts as Cut1 is at 0 degrees from the x-axis, Cut2 is 60 degrees above the x-axis, and Cut3 is 60 degrees below the x-axis. The cut nearest the tip of the top pie slice is made by a circle centered on Cut3 1 unit from the origin in the positive-x, negative-y direction. The middle cut of the top pie slice is made by a circle centered on Cut1 which is 1 units from the origin in the positive x direction. And the outermost cut of the top pie slice is made by a circle centered on Cut2 which is 1 unit from the origin in the positive x-direction, positive-y direction. On this scale the radius of the cuts appears to be about 2 units.

Of the 4 pieces each pie slice is cut into, only the 3 inner pieces are able to be scrambled. The outer piece in effect serves as the frame of the puzzle and shows you the color of that pie slice in the solved state.

Scrambling is accomplished by making sliding moves until a complete circular cut is formed and then rotating just that section of the puzzle relative to the rest.

Does this help?
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:32 pm 
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My feeling is..

THIS is the start to a completely new type of puzzles. A 2D start but..
It will be a synergy of common wood puzzles with more or less complicated moves to dis/assemble
and the 3d movements of twisty puzzles!!!!

Can we come together this way?

It would be a great achievement to design puzzles, which need both techniques.

What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Well, here's my idea. I wonder if it would be possible to have all sliding moves attached to each other so they all have to slide at the same time.
Image
I also wonder if it would look/function better if there were three sliding sections that made a triangle instead of four that make a square.

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:33 am 
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I think I'm starting to get it.

The disc as a whole is divided into six equal slices by 3 diameters similiar to a Rubik's Cheese or Rubik's UFO, but instead of these slices allowing 180 degree twists, they allow slide moves. I'm guessing the void in the center mentioned is a parallelogram if 2 diameters are off center and a hexagon if all 3 are off center.
The disc is divided into 3 concentric rings that can rotate about the disc's center plus a four stationary ring that serves as a frame.
Slice moves alone only change the puzzle's shape without really mixing up pieces and restoring the original shape is trivial.
Rotations alone change the relative alingments of rings, but doesn't really mix up pieces and realigning the rings would be trivial.
Only by combining the two types of moves can you actually mix-up pieces, lending credence to the idea of counting a complete move as taking the puzzle out of disc shape, rotating a ring, and then restoring the shape.

Similar to cuboids and pucks, this puzzle can easily be expanded to an infinite family:
Parameter 1: Number of pie slices, in this case 6, though like with pucks, having an odd number makes things trickier to conceptualize and implement.
Parameter 2: number of rings, in this case 3(since the fourth ring is merely a frame).

Does this sound like I am understanding things correctly?

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:05 am 
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Hey Jeffrey, just to let you know, that is exactly how the puzzle works! And the hole in the middle that is formed when sliding all pie slices a bit out, is a hexagon.

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:27 am 
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Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
I think I'm starting to get it.

The disc as a whole is divided into six equal slices by 3 diameters similiar to a Rubik's Cheese or Rubik's UFO, but instead of these slices allowing 180 degree twists, they allow slide moves. I'm guessing the void in the center mentioned is a parallelogram if 2 diameters are off center and a hexagon if all 3 are off center.
Correct. Though I don't believe the shape with a parallelogram void allows any rotation. It is possible to also form a trapezoid void that does allow turning but the only allowed rotation is a 360 degree rotation so it might as well not be there.
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
The disc is divided into 3 concentric rings that can rotate about the disc's center plus a four stationary ring that serves as a frame.
Here I think you've gone off in the wrong direction. The arcs cut into the disc do not form concentric rings. All the arcs have the same radius. And in the solved/disc state there are 6 arcs which are half circles which form sort of a hurricane pattern on the puzzle. Think of the spirial arms of a galaxy.

Anyone else what to take a shot at describing this thing?

If one were to make a black and white image of the shapes that form 1 pie piece would it be possible for someone to cut out these shapes so that you could play with them to see how they fit together? All 6 pie pieces are identical and made from the same 4 shapes.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Krystian's Disk by OSKAR & KRYSTIAN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:40 am 
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1NSAN3 wrote:
Hey Jeffrey, just to let you know, that is exactly how the puzzle works! And the hole in the middle that is formed when sliding all pie slices a bit out, is a hexagon.
To be honest I don't understand all of Jeffrey's description. If the puzzle were made of concentric rings all the rings would have different radii and the arcs of those rings that were cut into the pie shaped wedges would all have different shapes. So how would it turn after a sliding move had been made. Pieces from the ring of one radius won't fit into the ring of a different radius. Maybe I'm interpreting his description wrong. Seeing how he was able to "see" the parallelogram and the hexagon from my description I suspect his "mental vision" may be better then mine. It sounds like he may have a very original and interesting puzzle in his head that is different then this one, but at the moment I don't see how it would work.

Carl

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