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 Post subject: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:09 pm 
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This is my design for the 4x4x4.
Attachment:
File comment: assembled
zzzz E-Cube 4x4x4.png
zzzz E-Cube 4x4x4.png [ 169.46 KiB | Viewed 2115 times ]

assembled
Attachment:
File comment: mechanism
zzzz E-Cube 4x4x4 1.png
zzzz E-Cube 4x4x4 1.png [ 286.86 KiB | Viewed 2115 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: mechanism2
zzzz E-Cube 4x4x4 2.png
zzzz E-Cube 4x4x4 2.png [ 380.41 KiB | Viewed 2115 times ]

the mechanism
Attachment:
File comment: the blocking piece
zzzz E-Cube 4x4x4 3.png
zzzz E-Cube 4x4x4 3.png [ 128.68 KiB | Viewed 2115 times ]

I used this piece to keep the mechanism in alignment.

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:14 pm 
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I'm worried that if you continue this, you will render the rest of our brains obsolete... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:18 pm 
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benpuzzles wrote:
I'm worried that if you continue this, you will render the rest of our brains obsolete... :lol:

Exactly. Enough said.

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:38 am 
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Is that a 5x5x5 middle layer that has been pushed to the inside?

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:55 am 
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Brandon Enright wrote:
Is that a 5x5x5 middle layer that has been pushed to the inside?

Don't most 4x4's have a hidden 5x5 middle layer?

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:18 pm 
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TheCubingKyle wrote:
Brandon Enright wrote:
Is that a 5x5x5 middle layer that has been pushed to the inside?
Don't most 4x4's have a hidden 5x5 middle layer?
Yes. Most (but not all) 4x4x4 are really just 5x5x5's with the middle slice layer hidden with a locking mechanism to keep it in alignment.

This puzzle is more then that. And of all the designs he's posted this is the one I least understand. It appears to be 4x4x4 pieces on top of a ball core. But that ball core can be thought of as a separate puzzle. The ball core is a Fuzed Cube. His blocking piece is three of the 3x3x3 Edges fused to a 3x3x3 corner. However his Fuzed 3x3x3 has what amounts to baby face circles on each face but these baby face circles are small enough that they just contain edges... no corner parts. The baby face circles in the core appear to turn with the outer 4x4x4 faces. The inner 3x3x3 layers of the core turn with the slice layers of the 4x4x4. If that is correct then this has all the parts of a Multi-4x4x4 as the inner 3x3x3 Corners would correspond to the 2x2x2 contained within a 4x4x4.

This is a very odd and unique design and even after looking at the pictures for a few hours over the last couple days I'm still not certain I have reverse engineered it correctly in my head. A part I'm still questioning myself is what keeps the inner core as a whole aligned with the outer 4x4x4 pieces. It appears to be the feet of the 4x4x4 face pieces are recessed into a circular hole formed by the 3x3x3 Corners, though there may be more then that going on here too. The mechanism is so odd it almost looks alien and the very rounded organic looking shapes adds to that feel.

In comparison his other NxNxN designs aren't too hard to understand though I don't think he's shown the locking mechanism on his 2x2x2 yet. They are all GREAT designs but this 4x4x4 is fascinating. Its just SO different from everything I've seen before. I'm half expecting to see a 17x17x17 speed cube design pop up that has twice as many parts as Oskar's.

Oh let me add my name to the list of those that want to see what you have actually printed. And to the rest of us, keep in mind that this designer is 19 and 3D printing isn't cheap. I suspect he enjoys designing and I suspect he has more designs then he can afford to print. I know I sure couldn't have afford to do this when I was 19.

Something about the organic nature of these designs got me wondering. I've read about programs that design walking machines and they simulate the evolution process. They start with a basic design and add in tweaks and parts from other designs and sometimes totally random elements and then they let the various seed designs mate, produce offspring, etc. And after several generations you have designs that are much better then what you started with. It almost feels like something similar was done here. Could e-cubes have written a program which had the goal to "evolve" the best possible NxNxN mechanism. Seed it with all the designs you can think of and add in a physics emulator. Tell it you want to minimize friction, maximize corner cutting, and minimize popping potential and let it run and see what it produces. I have NO idea if that is what was done here or not but even if it was that doesn't diminish E-Cubes accomplishments. In fact I think if that is what was done then its even a greater accomplishment.

Carl

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Last edited by wwwmwww on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:53 am 
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A puzzle designing program? :lol:
I designed my 5x5x5 first, and then modified it into a 4x4x4. As for the weird shaped pieces, I just remove material where the pieces jam against each other, and this is partially trial and error with testing failed prototypes. I can't afford to have every model printed, but I will try to get this one made. I built the first version by hand, and it works about as well as a (EastSheen/V-Cube KO) V.III 4x4x4. I think that this version will be better. :D

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:22 am 
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I am sure you must have those prints still, can you make a picture of them and share them with us? :)


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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:36 am 
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E-Cubes Designer X wrote:
built the first version by hand


What do you mean by that? How would you handmake something like this??


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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:22 am 
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Brandon Enright wrote:
Is that a 5x5x5 middle layer that has been pushed to the inside?
Short answer... no. You are thinking that thin inner edge is a 5x5x5 edge. It is not. If it were, it would turn with the face center piece. Look at the curvature of the neighboring pieces.... the 5x5x5 T-Centers if this were a 5x5x5 middle layer. You can tell that edge doesn't turn with the 5x5x5 face center. It's the middle layer out of a Circle 3x3x3 where the circles are free to turn on their own.
E-Cubes Designer X wrote:
I designed my 5x5x5 first, and then modified it into a 4x4x4.
But it looks so different then your 5x5x5. I don't see anything I'd be tempted to call baby face circle parts in your 5x5x5. At least I think I understand your 5x5x5. I have this week off work so if I get the time I may try to reverse engineer it in SolidWorks. May I ask what size you designed it to be? I'm probably going to try to fit it all into a 60mm cube. And mine will be much less organic looking... not that I don't like the speed-solving look of yours. I just have no good sense as to how to make a speed cube. I'm usually happy if they function as the are designed.
E-Cubes Designer X wrote:
I can't afford to have every model printed, but I will try to get this one made.
Put them up on eBay and ask for a sponsor. I suspect you'd find people willing to test these for you.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:48 am 
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Kattenvriendin wrote:
I am sure you must have those prints still, can you make a picture of them and share them with us? :)

Just bumping this request.

PLEASE show us something that has been printed? I really want to see more than just the designs ;)


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 Post subject: More E-Cube 4x4x4 mechanism pictures
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:47 pm 
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I decided to add these to clarify my design.
Attachment:
zzzzzz E41.png
zzzzzz E41.png [ 207.14 KiB | Viewed 1624 times ]

Attachment:
zzzzzz E42.png
zzzzzz E42.png [ 339.3 KiB | Viewed 1624 times ]

Attachment:
zzzzzz E43.png
zzzzzz E43.png [ 405.94 KiB | Viewed 1624 times ]

Attachment:
zzzzzz E44.png
zzzzzz E44.png [ 357.64 KiB | Viewed 1624 times ]

Attachment:
zzzzzz E45.png
zzzzzz E45.png [ 304.78 KiB | Viewed 1624 times ]

More mechanism pictures :D

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 Post subject: Re: More E-Cube 4x4x4 mechanism pictures
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:03 pm 
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What is the rational of having a 5x5x5 on the inside instead of just having a 3x3x3? I'm either missing something or it is not necessary for this type of design.

edit: I stared at the design for a while longer and see whats going on here. its sort of like a baby face 3x3 transformed into a 4x4. Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: More E-Cube 4x4x4 mechanism pictures
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:41 am 
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All these designs, just put them on shapeways. I'm sure someone would be willing to sponsor one!

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 Post subject: Re: More E-Cube 4x4x4 mechanism pictures
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:43 am 
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rubikcollector123 wrote:
All these designs, just put them on shapeways. I'm sure someone would be willing to sponsor one!
Yes, I was thinking that. But you would have to make it clear that they were prototypes which had not been printed before and might not work as intended. Caveat emptor!

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 Post subject: Re: More E-Cube 4x4x4 mechanism pictures
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:04 am 
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Image

Please don't take this the wrong way, but this is just my opinion:

With literally EVERYTHING being held down by the centers anchored into the inner 5x5-like mechanism, this thing is going to be way too loose to be practical. In order for it to hold together right, the inner structure is going to have to be waaaay tight, putting far more than (in my opinion) tolerable stress on the small areas holding those centers in.

Don't get me wrong, its a really creative mechanism, and I would love to see this work... but I'm not sure how well it will.

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 Post subject: Re: More E-Cube 4x4x4 mechanism pictures
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:23 am 
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I can't be sure about this one, but the handmade v.1 holds together very well. I can't get it apart without taking screws out. The pieces work like a series of chained dovetail connections, and that gives the puzzle its stability.

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 Post subject: Re: More E-Cube 4x4x4 mechanism pictures
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:18 am 
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First question... why weren't these pictures simply added to the existing E-Cube 4x4x4 Thread? It would have seemed to make more sense to put these there.

And to be honest... I think I could tell what was going on easier with the first set of pictures then these.
gingervergo wrote:
What is the rational of having a 5x5x5 on the inside instead of just having a 3x3x3?
First that isn't a 5x5x5 on the inside but I see you figured that out. The baby face 3x3x3 is the same conclusion I came to in the first thread. See the link above. Second... many 4x4x4 DO have a 5x5x5 middle slice layer hidden away inside. The V-Cube being a prime example. As for why? That is easy... in these cases the 4x4x4 are simply just a 5x5x5 cube with the middle slice layer hidden inside with some method of keeping it in alignment with the rest of the puzzle.
gingervergo wrote:
edit: I stared at the design for a while longer and see whats going on here. its sort of like a baby face 3x3 transformed into a 4x4. Interesting.
Agreed... very interesting and original. I'd love to see how it turns.

Note: the corners on that inner baby face 3x3x3 serve the same roll as the 2x2x2 which should be hidden away inside all 4x4x4's. If this mechanism works well it might be very easy to turn this into a speed solvable Circle-4x4x4.

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 Post subject: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:20 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
First question... why weren't these pictures simply added to the existing E-Cube 4x4x4 Thread? It would have seemed to make more sense to put these there....Carl
I have merged the topics!

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Hello. This is my first post here, but I have been reading this forum for a while now. I have also been a member of the speedsolving forum for a while. The things I find the most interesting in cubing is cube theory, speed cube design, and analysis of solving methods.

The new E-cubes have really intrigued me. I simply love your 7x7 and 5x5 designs, but I can't love this 4x4 design until I understand it better. I have looked at the pictures of it for hours trying to figure out what I'm missing. From the looks of it, It seems like the outer layer turns should turn with what has already been described by other members here as "baby face circles". What I'm failing to see is where the outer 4x4 pieces connect with the internal mechanism Normally, the 4x4 center pieces would have the notched part fit under the corners/ 2x2/ball core, but in your design the outer edges go into these grooves. When you turn the outer layer, what makes the inner mechanism turn with it at all? I know you also have the alignment mechanism for the internal mechanism, but with nothing connected from the outer 4x4 pieces to the inner mechanism, the inner mechanism won't be aligned with the rest of the cube.

Edit: I was so eager to post I didn't study the new picture that just got moved into the thread. I see now that the center pieces go in further and go under the corner pieces as well. You had me stumped for a while.

Another thing that I am just wandering about is why you don't connect the outer pieces to the inner pieces. The center outer edge piece on your 5x5 and 7x7 could connect with the internal mechanisms edges and the corners could as well. You mention the corners popping out on your 5x5, and this would fix that. The only thing I can think of for not doing it is that having the force applied to the piece so far away from the point it is anchored could cause torque causing the corner piece to want to twist when you pushed on it rather than twist the face.

Btw, I love the way you are applying 3x3 speedcube design techniques to larger cubes.

Elrog.


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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:32 pm 
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the inner corners and edges don't move with the outer layer, so connecting them would make the outer layers not turn. This design is more like the babyface circle cube than a V-Cube.

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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:56 pm 
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E-Cubes Designer X wrote:
the inner corners and edges don't move with the outer layer, so connecting them would make the outer layers not turn. This design is more like the babyface circle cube than a V-Cube.


Would connecting them not just make the inner mechanism turn weather you did a double layer turn or a outer layer turn?


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 Post subject: Re: E-Cube 4x4x4
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:04 am 
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No,it would turn it into a 3x3x3.

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