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menshov_s

Post subject: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:48 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Hello everybody! Link to the manual  http://vk.com/doc185254069_224249949or use the direct mirror  http://buhgalteronline.kz/files/instr_morozov.pdfAnother variant of flipping edges  http://vk.com/doc185254069_229324082In this manual I tell about my method. This method is intuitive on 100% for us. If you try to understand the principle that can becomes intuitive and for you!My video for beginners (with subtitles in English):The sequence of solving: Solving 8 corners (the cube 2x2x2);
 Solving 12 edges (or ribs for big cubes);
 Permutation of centers.
Examples of solving:Good luck! Valery Morozov about his method of solving the Rubik’s Cube 3x3x3The Rubik’s Cube is a puzzle of swivel type. The swivel role in the cube is played centers. These are swivel of horizontal type. This swivel type has 1 level of freedom (possibility of rotation on an axis of a cube crosspiece). On the cube 6 central elements, therefore the maximum quantity of levels of freedom which can have elements of the cube can't be more than 6. The cube has 9 planes (layers) of rotation, and these planes of two types: 6 sides and 3 central. It is very important to distinguish because in case of rotation of 3 central planes, corner elements remain on a place, and rotate only center and edge elements. When you rotate the side plane, all elements (corners, edges) participate in movement. If to designate axes of the cube as X, Y, Z, then it is possible to consider movement of the planes of the cube, in relation to its axes. Rotation of 6 side planes is a rotation around one of three axes (X, Y, Z). Rotation of central planes is a rotation of two axes around the third, X and Y around Z, X and Z around Y, Z and Y around X. From this follows a very important conclusion  that corners elements has 3 levels of freedom, and edges and central elements has 6 levels of freedom. Now, from a position of levels of freedom, we will consider a layerbylayer method of solving. We see the following  after cross is solved, 12 edge elements loses 3 levels of freedom, central elements loses all 5 levels of freedom, and after that without a algorithms becomes impossible to solve the cube, i.e. restricting possibility of use of all 9 planes of rotation, solving the cube repeatedly becomes complicated. If you solved at first step 8 corners elements then after edge and central elements save its 6 levels of freedom. That allows solving the cube most simply and without algorithms. If there are more freedom levels at edge and central elements at each stage, then simple and variable there will be a solving.Old manual from Valery Morozov in Russian  http://vk.com/doc185254069_225976533Old variant of solving by the principle which Valery Morozov showed  http://vk.com/doc185254069_230764683
Last edited by menshov_s on Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:43 am, edited 18 times in total.


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: The 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:19 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi Sergey,
thank you for this posting. Very interesting. I will try to understand this method. Perhaps it was possible to give scramble sequences to reproduce the solving steps.
Cheers, Andrea


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: The 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:55 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Andrea wrote: Perhaps it was possible to give scramble sequences to reproduce the solving steps.
Thank you for your interest in the method! Sorry I didn't use special scrambles for this manual. We want to explain the principle. If you learned to solve with this method and understood the principle, you already will be able to solve corners and edges with your method. I show only my variant to solve corners and edges. I adhering only the principle about which Valery Morozov told: rotate 8 corners with basic color on the Top and the Bottom sides;
 put corners to its place;
 put 4 edges without basic colors;
 rotate 8 edges with basic color on the Top and the Bottom sides;
 put edges to its place;
 Permutation of centers.
The heaviest in this method steps 1 and 4. The rest steps are simple. In this method we go from difficult to the simple. And I think that it is right  this method demonstrate that the most difficult is solved corners i.e. the 2x2x2 cube all the rest is much easier  it's base for solving cubes of any sizes.


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Puzzlemad

Post subject: Re: The 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:08 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:57 am Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard  Precioussssss!

Fantastic! You can never have too many approaches in your armoury! I have downloaded and will study it at my leisure. Thank you for sharing.
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Andrea

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:26 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi friends, this is a nice solving method. (A new solving method is nearly a new puzzle ) It is possible to make the part 4 much more easier. With a variant the edge flipping method from Gilles Roux ( I used it for solving the Bermuda Venus) If the number of 90 degrees middlelayerturns is odd (voidcube parity ) you only make a M'Then you must only memorize ONE easy sequence: M' U M'And only 4 possible positions of flipping configurations: case 1: 1 top edge is flipped turn top layer until this piece is in front position case 2: 2 top adjacent egdes are flipped turn top layer until these pieces are on left and back position case 3: 2 top opposite edges are flipped turn top layer untip these pieces are in front and back position case 4: one piece is not flipped turn top layer until the back position is unflipped After this use M' U M'One case goes to another case. After some cases all edges are flipped correct. In my opinion its easier to memorize 4 positions and one simple sequence than 6 positions and 6 more difficult sequences. http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Step_4.htmlHere the solution is easier because you flip the first two edges intuitive. The case where M' U M' doesn't change anything is excluded.( 4 flipped pieces in the M layer) Nice solution method. Cheers, Andrea


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rline

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:42 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am

I have been trying to understand this method. So far I'm working through the 222. I haven't gone on to the 333 yet. My main feeling is that I can't see how this is intuitive. There seems to be a lot to remember. I'm fairly sure (so far) that if I was to explain this to a noncuber, they wouldn't think it was at all intuitive. I don't mean to be critical. I'm genuinely trying to understand it. I wonder whether anyone else has found it intuitive or not intuitive. I'll keep going with it.
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Andrea

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:06 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi rline, Quote: I wonder whether anyone else has found it intuitive or not intuitive. I cannot excatly answer. The part of orientating corners is more intuitive than other methods because white = yellow. So it uses less movements. Its easier to separate the yellow and white pieces later. Perhaps my change of this method is more intuitive. Perhaps for beginners the method from Burgo is easier. Perhaps for big  cubes this method is good, because you must not memorize parity sequences. But it is an interesting method. If intuitive or not. Cheers, Andrea


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rline

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:13 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am

Andrea wrote: But it is an interesting method. If intuitive or not. Hi Andrea, I agree, it is definitely an interesting method. But since the thread is titled "100% intuitive" ... I'm not sure it is. My main "concern" is having to consult so many cases. I remember that one of the reasons I abandoned Phil Marshall's ultimate solution method for the 2x2x2 was the same thing: having to remember too many cases and the different things required in each.
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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:29 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Thanks for comments! I added subtitles to my first video how to solve corners  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIotTBDD4fEIt is My video for beginners. In this video I explain specially much more simply.The manual which I published here, it is method optimization from me.


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Andrea

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:41 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am Location: Germany

Hi rline, Quote: My main "concern" is having to consult so many cases. I remember that one of the reasons I abandoned Phil Marshall's ultimate solution method for the 2x2x2 was the same thing: having to remember too many cases and the different things required in each. yes, I agree with you. The hard part is : orientate corners and flip edges. Orientating corners becomes easier. But you must learn this 6 cases. With other solving methods , by example orientate corners with "sunes" you must learn this cases , too. I tried to learn the 6 cases for flipped edges. I gave up. (stupid old girl) So I replaced the edge flipping with the easy ( 5 minutes to learn, or less) method from Roux. After that I was able to solve the 3x3x3 with this method. The idea to make pairs of edges is genial. The method of centers last is not so bad.(Center cycles) Exactly this technique I use for solving the Mixup Plus 4x4x4. It looks nice, as last step , solve a dot pattern Cheers, Andrea


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psi

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:49 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:39 am

Hi, When you think you saw all possible methods to solve this "wonderful" thing called Rubik's cube there it is: another one! I've still to study it completely but I have to say that I really like it !It has some similarities with HTA algorithm so I have to like it (for example the concept of considering white/yellow as a single color during some steps). Some considerations. Positive:  Some steps are really clever like edge pairings and corners solving separation into substeps. (I won't repeat Andrea's considerations, I agree with all of them).  Once you understand WHAT you have to do at each step and HOW it is accomplished it really becomes intuitive and you don't need to learn algorithms.  It’s really a different method from the ones I know (and they are many), I did’t expect another one . Less positive:  You have to remember all the substeps (but I have to say this becomes quickly very easy).  You need an initial effort to learn it, for this reason I think it definitely is not an "intuitive" method for a beginner (try to explain all those cases to a person who knows nothing about the cube, he will run from you).  I have to say I had to reread the instructions twice because of some "odd" English sentences, but I was tired (late night) and I understand English is not your mother language. Don't take this as criticism, you really did a great job putting down this document with all these images, I really enjoyed it and will learn further to fully master this method. I have still to apply Andrea's suggestion for edges, it looks like a good idea. Well done!


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Tony Fisher

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm

Yes, a very interesting method though as others have said probably not intuitive. In fact by definition I am not sure if you can teach or learn a 100% intuitive solution. The manual could only say "Solve the puzzle intuitively".
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Brandon Enright

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm Location: Bay Area, California

Tony Fisher wrote: I am not sure if you can teach or learn a 100% intuitive solution. I think you can however I don't think the OP's method is intuitive. I think everyone can agree that you can intuitively get to the last layer or very close to the last layer. Once you're there, I think commutators are probably the only intuitive way to go. Under the assumptions that:  Everyone intuitively understands "setup moves"
 Anyone can look at [R', F, R, F'] and intuitively understand why it 3cycles edges.
 Once you see why that [1,1] commutator works, anyone can intuitively modify it with setup moves or other very basic changes like [R, F, R', F']
 Given the above, it's reasonable that anyone could find and intuitively understand a sequence like [R', F, R, F', D, F, R', F', R, D'] which nests the edge commutator in another one
This is everything you need to know to solve a Rubik's cube and I think it's pretty close to as minimal an intuitive understanding as you can get.
_________________ Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.


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David Treeman

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:18 pm 


Yes I agree with Tony. I don't think that if you have to be taught something in any way at all, that it's 100% intuitive. I think saying this method is 100% intuitive, and then explaining the method is contradictory. There may be intuitive parts to it, but to call it 100% is completely false. The second you start telling people about the method, it is then not completely intuitive. Just my 2 cents.


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rline

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am

David Treeman wrote: Yes I agree with Tony. I don't think that if you have to be taught something in any way at all, that it's 100% intuitive. I think saying this method is 100% intuitive, and then explaining the method is contradictory. There may be intuitive parts to it, but to call it 100% is completely false. The second you start telling people about the method, it is then not completely intuitive. Just my 2 cents. Yep. This is what I was sort of trying to say above. I will say that trying to work through the method made me start wondering about refinements to it in order to make it "more intuitive than it is".
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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Last edited by menshov_s on Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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David Treeman

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:54 pm 


Ok maybe you don't understand. Yes, if you tell somebody to solve the corners first and don't tell them how to do it specifically, and then they figure that out intuitively, they did not get to that point of the solve with 100% intuition. You told them what their first goal is. Not sure why you can't understand this?


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:46 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

New message from Valery MorozovThe Megaminx and the Rubik’s CubeCentral elements of the Megaminx has 1 level of freedom, and Corners and Edges has 6 levels of freedom, therefore the Megaminx can't is solved in a different way, except as layerbylayer (around centers), because if to try to solve separately corners and edges, then you can't put into place centers, without break all solved elements. But you can easily solve corners and edges in the Rubik’s Cube 3x3x3, and then to put centers into places. And all thanks to that centers have 6 levels of freedom. In the cube 4x4x4, corners and edges has only one setup variant  everyone to their places. And centers are 96 setup variants. 4 central elements on one side are 16 variants. 6 sides are giving  16*6 = 96. And now question: What is simpler  to decide corners and edges, and then to decide centers where we use one of 96 possible variants, or to decide centers and then to decide edges and angles around centers where we use one possible option for saving centers from breaking? If, all these puzzles are called mechanical then a way to their decision will be from a position of laws of mechanics. The mathematical group theory is good only for some special cases, for example, when we solve the Megaminx.
If you don't understand my reasoning about levels of freedom, then I will say more simply, we will take the cube 3x3x3, and we will consider its solving.
 Corners are only one variant of location, and we need put each corner on its place to solve them. After corners are solved, we easily defined where located colors of sides.
 Edges are only one variant of location, and we need put each edge on its place to solve them.
 Centers are 24 variants of location. When corners and edges are solved and they can turn under different angles (4 variants).
Last edited by menshov_s on Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.


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Brandon Enright

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:44 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm Location: Bay Area, California

David Treeman wrote: Ok maybe you don't understand. Yes, if you tell somebody to solve the corners first and don't tell them how to do it specifically, and then they figure that out intuitively, they did not get to that point of the solve with 100% intuition. You told them what their first goal is. Not sure why you can't understand this? I bet everyone has a slightly different definition of the word "intuitive". The very nature of the word describes and intangible feeling that will vary from person to person. I think this causes the definition to have a lot of variance from person to person to. To me, "intuitive" means it's something you can understand even if you can't put words to it. You "just get it" even if you fully don't understand how. There is a lot of room for fudging definitions here...
_________________ Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:28 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

My video for beginners (with subtitles in English):
Last edited by menshov_s on Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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David Treeman

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:22 pm 


I guess I just don't understand why you call it 100% and then give a method. I have followed your link to the speedsolvingforum, and I see many people saying the same thing there as well. Why do you call it the 100% intuitive method, and it's not 100% intuitive? I don't get it? You seem very bent on having to name it this, like you've invented a way for somebody who's never solved one, to solve it using 100% intuition, yet you explain how to solve the puzzle. Am I missing something here or are you just hoping to get a name for the one person in the world that has finally created a solution where somebody can learn it on their own... but using your guidelines...


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rline

Post subject: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:54 am

David Treeman wrote: I guess I just don't understand why you call it 100% and then give a method. I have followed your link to the speedsolvingforum, and I see many people saying the same thing there as well. Why do you call it the 100% intuitive method, and it's not 100% intuitive? I don't get it? You seem very bent on having to name it this, like you've invented a way for somebody who's never solved one, to solve it using 100% intuition, yet you explain how to solve the puzzle. Am I missing something here or are you just hoping to get a name for the one person in the world that has finally created a solution where somebody can learn it on their own... but using your guidelines... I think his statement here: menshov_s wrote: This method is unique and it is worthy to be known! is actually what the OP is intending (or should be intending). The method is not intuitive. It's a method. But it is unique and worthy to be known. I suggest changing the thread title to "A new and unique method for a Rubik's Cube".
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menshov_s

Post subject: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Let's not argue on the topic name and let's talk about a method. My new outputs from this method. When we make a correct pair of 2 edges elements we get a complex element. This complex element contains 3 colors. And this complex element have its complex place which consists of three flowers. For example, if we connect the WhiteRed edge with the WhiteOrange edge, we get the correct pair is the WhiteRedOrange complex element. And this element have the WhiteRedOrange complex place. It is similar to corners. And to set this complex element not more difficult than to set a corner element in first side in the layerbylayer method.


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menshov_s

Post subject: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

rline wrote: David Treeman wrote: I suggest changing the thread title to "A new and unique method for a Rubik's Cube". Thanks for idea about new topic name! I renamed topic on "A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube". (Valery calls it a phase method)
Last edited by menshov_s on Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Konrad

Post subject: Re: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:10 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am Location: Germany, Bavaria

[Moderator] The author of the topic has changed the title to "A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube". So, we do not need to discuss any further to which degree it is intuitive. Several posts agree that the method is interesting and unique. Let us try to keep the tone friendly. This is a friendly forum [/Moderator]I think it is obvious that a 100% intuitive method would be this and only this: "Here is the Rubik Cube. You can solve it just following your intuition. " This method will work for some but not for many Clearly, the author did not mean exactly 100% Konrad
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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:33 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

psi wrote: Hi, ... Don't take this as criticism, you really did a great job putting down this document with all these images, I really enjoyed it and will learn further to fully master this method. I have still to apply Andrea's suggestion for edges, it looks like a good idea.
Well done! Thank you that you tried to understand this method! You understood my manual even my poor English didn't stop you.


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:10 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Konrad wrote: [Moderator] The author of the topic has changed the title to "A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube". So, we do not need to discuss any further to which degree it is intuitive. Several posts agree that the method is interesting and unique. Let us try to keep the tone friendly. This is a friendly forum [/Moderator]I think it is obvious that a 100% intuitive method would be this and only this: "Here is the Rubik Cube. You can solve it just following your intuition. " This method will work for some but not for many Clearly, the author did not mean exactly 100% Konrad Ok. It is my mistake (not Valery) that I thus called this topic. Best regards, Sergey.
Last edited by menshov_s on Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Look please at this method for beginners  http://rubikscube.info/beginner.phpand compare it to this method. There to be spoken:Introduction This method uses very few sequences that you need to memorize in order to solve the cube. Although there are quite a few sequences provided in this solution, most of them are intuitive steps, which once you understand you will never forget. But just like in any other game, you will need to study different methods in order to find your own solving strategy. Even though you might find our cornersfirst solution pretty straightforward, it will take a lot of practice before you fully master the method.Look as difficult there solve edges, because there is a binding to centers.


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Hello everybody!
I deleted many excess messages that there were no any disputes more. Let's agree to differ.
I am really sorry!
I hope this method will find followers.
Best regards, Sergey.


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A 100% intuitive method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

Andrea wrote: Hi friends, this is a nice solving method. (A new solving method is nearly a new puzzle ) It is possible to make the part 4 much more easier. With a variant the edge flipping method from Gilles Roux ( I used it for solving the Bermuda Venus) If the number of 90 degrees middlelayerturns is odd (voidcube parity ) you only make a M'Then you must only memorize ONE easy sequence: M' U M'... Thank you for a good idea! I got a new variant of flipping edges. Look my manual about it  http://vk.com/doc185254069_229324082


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:43 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am


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menshov_s

Post subject: Re: A unique phase method for a Rubik's Cube Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

A mixed method (the method of lines and the method of Morozov) for solving of 4x4x4NxNxN cubes:  Solving 2 opposite centers (the Blue and Green centers);
 Solving 8 edges which contain Blue or Green colors with the method of lines;
 Solving corners with the method of Morozov;
 Put 8 edges and 2 centers to their place  2 opposite sides (the Blue and Green sides) are solved;
 Solving 4 edges with method of Morozov;
 Solving 4 centers.
Video for the 4x4x4 cube  http://youtu.be/71x68Okd1T0Video for the 5x5x5NxNxN cube  http://youtu.be/9eTFzMGDvUHow to permute central elements by 3x3x3 principle: Another mixed method for odd cubes (5x5x5, 7x7x7,…):  Solving all 6 centers;
 Solving all edges with the method of lines;
 If it is necessary then remove parity  rotate an internal layer on 90⁰ and resolve 4 edges;
 Solving 4 centers from lines;
 Solve a cube as the 3х3х3.
Video  http://youtu.be/PusIG2hmctw


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