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 Post subject: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:45 pm 
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I was browsing a cubing website when I discovered that there is a 10x10x10 available soon. I think that this is a huge step for the production of larger cubes, because the only one prior was the one Greg and Claus made a while back. Taking into consideration the size of the one they made (which was mind-blowing), I think this one is probably smaller and more proportional.

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Last edited by BelcherBoy2000 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Yes, this is considered KO on this forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:36 pm 
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That being said, it's best if you delete/edit out anything that advertises this puzzle such as the entire post, links, picture, etc.

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 Post subject: Re:Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:04 pm 
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I think I deleted all promotions/mentions of the company!

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 Post subject: Re: Re:Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:23 pm 
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BelcherBoy2000 wrote:
I think I deleted all promotions/mentions of the company!
You may also want to remove the name of the web site you were browsing as that alone tells everyone how to find this cube. Everyone here is probably already aware of this site but I still think that would be the safest thing to do.

I'm not a moderator so I'm not 100% sure but I think they are likely to edit that out if you don't.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:41 pm 
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It seems this has been properly edited, thanks to the community for guiding our new member.

The existence of a 10x10x10 is puzzle information of worth to this site. Where and how to find it is also information, as are details of its terms of sale, but not deemed respectful in the case of a KO puzzle. So these we avoid.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:01 pm 
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cubeguy314 wrote:
That being said, it's best if you delete/edit out anything that advertises this puzzle such as the entire post, links, picture, etc.

Ok, I get the KO policy... but that was just a little rude, don't ya think?


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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Crazy56U wrote:
cubeguy314 wrote:
That being said, it's best if you delete/edit out anything that advertises this puzzle such as the entire post, links, picture, etc.

Ok, I get the KO policy... but that was just a little rude, don't ya think?
Not particularly. Such a thread is right at the border of our policy and the line between offering information about the existence of a KO puzzle and in effect advertising it is pretty thin.
At the time of that comment I can imagine it may have been hard to see what could be salvaged. Multiple edits later with community feedback it still required one edit from me before I considered it on the proper side of the above described line.

This comment isn't meant to give BelcherBoy2000 a hard time (who was prompt and courteous to make the suggested edits), but just to note that I can understand cubeguy314 considering the entire post may not be appropriate. That certainly was my first inclination, but I'm happy we have found a reasonable compromise.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Mass Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:34 am 
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hi,the cube is the news,and the structure,KO or not,Time will prove......


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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Despite the header on the original photo most of us know the world's first cubic 10x10x10 was actually by Greg and Claus (left photo below). I find the differences in the size of the outer layers interesting. Greg's puzzle is much closer in appearance to Oskar's Over The Top 17x17x17.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Maybe (I don't know) Greg and Claus used a similar mechanism to Oskars 17x17x17 so it wouldn't infringe any patents. This mechanism might require a larger outer layer to be stable whereas this new cube which most likely uses the v-cube mechanism might not require as thick of an outer layer to be stable.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:29 pm 
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JackRTully wrote:
Maybe (I don't know) Greg and Claus used a similar mechanism to Oskars 17x17x17 so it wouldn't infringe any patents. This mechanism might require a larger outer layer to be stable whereas this new cube which most likely uses the v-cube mechanism might not require as thick of an outer layer to be stable.

Without checking, from memory I am pretty sure the Greg and Claus one is very similar to the V-Cube mech. It wasn't a problem though because they never sold it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
JackRTully wrote:
Maybe (I don't know) Greg and Claus used a similar mechanism to Oskars 17x17x17 so it wouldn't infringe any patents. This mechanism might require a larger outer layer to be stable whereas this new cube which most likely uses the v-cube mechanism might not require as thick of an outer layer to be stable.

Without checking, from memory I am pretty sure the Greg and Claus one is very similar to the V-Cube mech. It wasn't a problem though because they never sold it.

I also think Oskar's mech (pagoda?) can only be used for specific layer amounts, that's the reason he picked 17 in the first place. I could be wrong, but I don't think 10 worked under the restrictions. In any case, I wish there were more, truly new puzzles coming out. I understand that there is appeal to higher order puzzles, but I'd prefer to see something different at this point, maybe something original.


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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:07 pm 
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The reason why the 10x10x10 Claus and I made had a bigger outer layer was because it was a modified 12x12x12 (to make design time shorter, thus less expenses for Claus). It uses the classic v-mech. I do hope I get a small compensation for being the first to make a 10x10x10 even if that means getting only one or two 10x10's. But I doubt the company will even answer my email... :(

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:04 pm 
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RubixFreakGreg wrote:
The reason why the 10x10x10 Claus and I made had a bigger outer layer was because it was a modified 12x12x12 (to make design time shorter, thus less expenses for Claus). It uses the classic v-mech. I do hope I get a small compensation for being the first to make a 10x10x10 even if that means getting only one or two 10x10's. But I doubt the company will even answer my email... :(

I would be careful. Recognition = connection with a KO product and that might mean firing squad one day. Do you really want your name on that thing?

eye2eye wrote:
I understand that there is appeal to higher order puzzles, but I'd prefer to see something different at this point, maybe something original.
So then you should come up with the idea. I am sure Uwe or Calvin will produce it for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:37 pm 
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The fisrt attempt of the 17x17x17 based on the pagoda mech.

The working version of the 17x17x17 has no pagoda mech. It is working and don't fall apart because the pieces has "long" legs. This you can use to design a 19x19x19, 21x21x21 and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:43 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
eye2eye wrote:
I understand that there is appeal to higher order puzzles, but I'd prefer to see something different at this point, maybe something original.
So then you should come up with the idea.
To each their own... some like higher order puzzles and I certainly have nothing against that. And I think Tony's advice is great. You know what you like... take a shot at designing something and you'll have an even greater appreciation of the craft. With CAD and 3D printing the process is now easier then ever.
Tony Fisher wrote:
I am sure Uwe or Calvin will produce it for you.
This statement puzzles me. I've designed some puzzles that have been very well received by the community but I to date haven't had producers (let alone Uwe or Calvin) knocking at my door with offers to mass produce them and I've stated several times I'm more then open to the idea. I view my puzzles as something I'm leaving this world that will likely out last me and I want them to be able to get out into the world and enjoyed by anyone that wants to play with them at the most affordable price possible. Do date my best and only option has been Shapeways which I know really limits those that can afford them. So if your statement isn't sarcasm, which I don't see a reason why it should be, is my perception off? I know many designs are actually getting produced these days by other designers so I'm curious if I'm doing something wrong. Do Uwe or Calvin have a design submission process that I'm not aware of?

Anyways... that aside YES if you want something new and aren't getting what you want DESIGN it yourself. You'll enjoy the whole process and even if someone doesn't come knocking on your door there is always Shapeways that is willing to help make it real.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:53 pm 
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clauswe wrote:
The working version of the 17x17x17 has no pagoda mech. It is working and don't fall apart because the pieces has "long" legs. This you can use to design a 19x19x19, 21x21x21 and so on.
And I think you can get the even NxNxN puzzles too if you just hide the central layer. That and it works for smaller N too. To be honest I'd be rather curious to see a 7x7x7 made with this mechanism and to see how it compared with the V7x7x7. Seeing as how all the details of the 17x17x17 or on the web I'm half surprised some of the KO companies aren't using this mechanism to get around the V-Cube patent. However, as the V-Cube patent doesn't seem to be slowing them down very much, maybe they simply don't see the need to try something different.

Still the question of what is the better mechanism at small N may be an interesting one. Maybe its obvious to others... I don't know. But it would seem worth trying.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:58 am 
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RubixFreakGreg wrote:
I do hope I get a small compensation for being the first to make a 10x10x10 even if that means getting only one or two 10x10's. But I doubt the company will even answer my email... :(
If they have no interest in giving any proper compensation to Mr. Verdes for copying and using his design, what possible motive would they have for giving you something because you happen to have built that same copied design first?

Getting compensation for building someone else's design without their permission would place that effort solidly in the realm of KO. I've never considered that project KO because it was not (to my knowledge) done for profit and I didn't think it was meant with any disrespect. I hope this remains the case. I should hope recognition for being the first to realize this puzzle (and the great design on which it is based) would be in itself sufficient.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:44 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
I've designed some puzzles that have been very well received by the community but I to date haven't had producers (let alone Uwe or Calvin) knocking at my door with offers to mass produce them and I've stated several times I'm more then open to the idea. I view my puzzles as something I'm leaving this world that will likely out last me and I want them to be able to get out into the world and enjoyed by anyone that wants to play with them at the most affordable price possible. Do date my best and only option has been Shapeways which I know really limits those that can afford them. So if your statement isn't sarcasm, which I don't see a reason why it should be, is my perception off? I know many designs are actually getting produced these days by other designers so I'm curious if I'm doing something wrong. Do Uwe or Calvin have a design submission process that I'm not aware of?

I can't speak for your own experiences but I am sure if anyone sends either Uwe or Calvin a design or actual puzzle they (Uwe or Calvin) consider a good idea they will produce it. I don't know if it is still the case but Uwe has been desperate for new puzzle ideas over the last year or so and Calvin has been actively expanding his catalogue. Remember that a good idea has to financially viable for them and in most cases you are the one who needs to present it to them.
There are also others of course like MF8 and depending on your personal veiws a few KO companies which have started to make legit stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:57 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
This statement puzzles me. I've designed some puzzles that have been very well received by the community but I to date haven't had producers (let alone Uwe or Calvin) knocking at my door with offers to mass produce them and I've stated several times I'm more then open to the idea. I view my puzzles as something I'm leaving this world that will likely out last me and I want them to be able to get out into the world and enjoyed by anyone that wants to play with them at the most affordable price possible. Do date my best and only option has been Shapeways which I know really limits those that can afford them. So if your statement isn't sarcasm, which I don't see a reason why it should be, is my perception off? I know many designs are actually getting produced these days by other designers so I'm curious if I'm doing something wrong. Do Uwe or Calvin have a design submission process that I'm not aware of?
l


Not to really get involved in that side of things I personally have been hoping/wondering when the bubbloid was going to get mass produced.
Might have to just suck it up and order one. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:55 pm 
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Getting off topic here but as all that can be said about the mass produced 10x10x10 has probably already been said I don't feel too bad. Maybe the mods should spin this off into a new topic.
S3rzz wrote:
Not to really get involved in that side of things I personally have been hoping/wondering when the bubbloid was going to get mass produced.
I personally would love to see it mass produced. I think part of what I have going against me is the way I've designed the puzzle is only well suited for 3D printing. This is particularly a problem when it comes to the core. I don't have personal experience with injection molding so maybe this can be over come by making a multi-part core that is screwed together. I'm just not sure. However maybe its that I haven't forced myself on Uwe or Calvin either. I was under the impression that both keep they eyes open here on the forums and that if they were interested they'd contact me. Maybe I need to be more direct...
S3rzz wrote:
Might have to just suck it up and order one. :wink:
I'd love to sell you one. It you wait a bit you might even have even more Bubbloid options. :wink:
Tony Fisher wrote:
I can't speak for your own experiences but I am sure if anyone sends either Uwe or Calvin a design or actual puzzle they (Uwe or Calvin) consider a good idea they will produce it. I don't know if it is still the case but Uwe has been desperate for new puzzle ideas over the last year or so and Calvin has been actively expanding his catalogue. Remember that a good idea has to financially viable for them and in most cases you are the one who needs to present it to them.
There are also others of course like MF8 and depending on your personal veiws a few KO companies which have started to make legit stuff.
I'm open to either giving or lending a puzzle to either Uwe, Calvin, or MR8 if they were interested in mass producing it. These cost enough that I can't afford to be giving too many away if they aren't interested. Can you PM me email addresses that I should use to contact them? I'll try to give Uwe the first opportunity and if he passes then go to Calvin.

Thanks,
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Mass-Produced 10x10x10
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:35 pm 
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First black finished,good-looking.


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