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 Post subject: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx Released!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Today, we are happy to announce our new puzzle, Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx, which will be mass-produced and bring out to the market about 2 months.
The hexaminx is designed by Tony Fisher 2008, shape-modified into Pillowed-shaped by Traiphum 2009.
Thanks for the brilliant design of Tony & Traiphum. The cubes turns smooth and shape-shift during the solving. We shall have black, white and blue limited edition.
Patent Number : 20134001044x.x

Attachment:
Hexaminx prototype.JPG
Hexaminx prototype.JPG [ 133.79 KiB | Viewed 8277 times ]

Attachment:
Hexaminx.JPG
Hexaminx.JPG [ 121.96 KiB | Viewed 8301 times ]


Demo video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEViv5wqnvQ
Reference post :
Tony Hexaminx - http://www.twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/pu ... ?pkey=1612
Traiphum Hexaminx - http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pkey=1787

We are currently talking to our worldwide business partners about the pre-wholesales orders. If anyone in the puzzles business and interested to be our oversea partners, feel free to contact me at calvinfan@hknowstore.com .
We would like most of our partners made their pre-wholesales orders and have the cubes in stock in advance. Then, we shall set a lucky date to officially release it to the market.

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Last edited by calvinfan on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:50 am, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:27 pm 
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WOW! :shock:

Calvin I cannot wait for this, this is a puzzle I have wanted for a long time! This is wonderful news.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:32 pm 
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WOOT!! I will be stealing Martywolfman's I think.. heheh.


LOVELY!!


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:34 pm 
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That's a huge surprise for me, because I thought that this puzzle would not be mass-produced.
I have currently a mini one, and I am very happy to be able to buy one.
But, I feel a little incomfortabl nevertheless with this announcement...


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Wonderful. I just bought a hand made one too (grin)! Very good news though. I am so happy we will all get the chance to own such a special puzzle!


Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Kattenvriendin wrote:
I will be stealing Martywolfman's I think.. heheh.



:shock: Will you now...

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Awesome!


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:41 pm 
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So awesome! I didn't think I would ever get a chance to own this puzzle!

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Tony, are you getting any credit for this at all? Surely just making the faces curved does not alter the underlying idea at all, it solves exactly the same, it is the same puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Gus wrote:
Tony, are you getting any credit for this at all? Surely just making the faces curved does not alter the underlying idea at all, it solves exactly the same, it is the same puzzle.

I must admit that either I don't understand Tony's request on his homepage about which puzzles can be copied for sale or swap (the hexaminx isn't in the allowed list) or else he and Traiphum and Calvin have come to a behind-the-scenes deal, or else Tony isn't currently overly happy.

Having said that, I really hope there is a deal cause I would love to own one of these.

Calvin, would you mind giving us some idea of the price the puzzle will cost? Not an exact amount, just a reasonable guess?

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:25 pm 
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rline wrote:
Gus wrote:
Tony, are you getting any credit for this at all? Surely just making the faces curved does not alter the underlying idea at all, it solves exactly the same, it is the same puzzle.
Having said that, I really hope there is a deal cause I would love to own one of these.

This may or may not answer this question but I've copied these two quotes from this thread:
http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=289079
traiphum wrote:
This pillowed version has selling permission from Tony Fisher the designer. Thank you.

Tony Fisher wrote:
Very nice. Good luck with them.

But yes, I don't know any specifics as to the deal traiphum and Tony had or if any money was involved. It does feel like Tony should be getting some credit here as well.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Once again this has come as a surprise and once again it's kind of complicated. I have no intention on trying to block it but I need a few private talks. I don't think it would be right to say more here.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:49 pm 
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I hope it all gets straightened out. I'd love to see this one on the market. I'm getting tired of gears and cuboids.....err......no, not really.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:04 am 
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:lol: That is like saying you're getting tired of buying new puzzles.. who gets tired of THAT now??


I hope it gets sorted out Tony!


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:06 am 
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The inventor of the hexaminx is Tony, no discussions.

Is it important who made the first curvy or pillowed one?

Then I will call the attention to

http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17371&hilit=pillowed+hexaminx.


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:46 am 
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Im so excited for this! This is one of my most wanted puzzles and for it to be produced is so great! I honestly cant wait :D

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:58 am 
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Wereas I was never as thrilled about the Hexaminx as most people of the comunity, this product was only a matter of time.
Calvin's going to get rich. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:29 am 
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I have been waiting for this moment for 2 years. I've always been dreaming about having a hexaminx! I'll buy the blue one for looks, and the black one to solve.
Thanks Traiphum and Calvin!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:03 am 
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Early days in sorting stuff out but if this version goes ahead it will be a joint venture between Calvin, Traiphum and myself. A while ago Traiphum and myself talked about mass production but in the end I just "let him" do his custom versions. I was happy for him to go it alone on them but naturally a mass produced version should involve myself.
Neither Calvin or Traiphum has done anything wrong here, it was simply a case of poor communications and misunderstandings. Thankfully it is not down to the puzzle being KOed like the Gear change.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:11 am 
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As much as I love this puzzle and I will be buying when it is produced, the flat one in my opinion is THE best.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:20 am 
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Location: In my study drooling over my puzzle hoard - Precioussssss!
:shock: :shock: :( :(

Oh dear! I paid full price!!

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:39 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
:shock: :shock: :( :(

Oh dear! I paid full price!!

Even if I'm not in that group you are not the only one, I know it happens with shapeways puzzles, but I think if a dessigner make a batch of hand made puzzle, to sell them, the puzzle should not be mass produced afterward. Witch both Tony and traiphum did, but I'm not blaming Tony because if I'm right he didn't want the hexaminx to be mass produced because some collector had already spend a lot of money on hes original version.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:17 am 
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JackRTully wrote:
As much as I love this puzzle and I will be buying when it is produced, the flat one in my opinion is THE best.


I agree on this. The beauty of the Hexaminx is that it takes the original dodecahedron puzzle mechanism and converts it into the original Rubik's cube shape. To me, it's an elegant 'hack' To make it pillowed in my opinion takes away a portion of the original concept and elegance.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:36 am 
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darryl wrote:
JackRTully wrote:
As much as I love this puzzle and I will be buying when it is produced, the flat one in my opinion is THE best.


I agree on this. The beauty of the Hexaminx is that it takes the original dodecahedron puzzle mechanism and converts it into the original Rubik's cube shape. To me, it's an elegant 'hack' To make it pillowed in my opinion takes away a portion of the original concept and elegance.

-d

I guess it may be possible for the pillowed one to be modded into the flat one but I do not want the flat one mass produced. Producing the Pillowed one seems like a logical compromise.

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Last edited by Tony Fisher on Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:21 am 
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Hey, that is a lovely puzzle, i like it pillowed, Traiphum and Calvin are both kind and honest and i hope you will overcome this very soon... BTW, Tony i liked to see your picture with this giant pyraminx puzzle!
:scrambled:


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Another guy who have paid full price here. But still like to see this puzzle mass produced. I think it'll be encouraging within puzzle community.

The only thing I'm worry about is stickers.......


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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Exciting news, although I have mixed feelings. I'm sure many people aren't too happy about paying either Tony Fisher or Traiphum the full price for their hand-made puzzles only to have it suddenly mass-produced. However, I wouldn't worry about those puzzles necessarily decreasing in any value, especially Tony's original.

I would certainly prefer a mass-produced flat version, but since I'm already making my own Hexaminx, it'd be nice to own an alternate version as well. I am looking forward to buying this when it comes out.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:00 pm 
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I'll probably buy it to compare it with my handmade version from Traiphum.
I hope Calvin, Traiphum and Tony can sort everything out.

I never complain, when I have bought a handmade version that is now mass-produced. Instead, I congratulate people who can buy it at an (hopefully) affordable price :)

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Modern-Day Warrior wrote:
Exciting news, although I have mixed feelings. I'm sure many people aren't too happy about paying either Tony Fisher or Traiphum the full price for their hand-made puzzles only to have it suddenly mass-produced.

It's not the same as mine and last year I discussed the pillowed version with as many buyers of my original as possible. They were happy for us to go ahead with a mass produced pillowed version if we decided to. This plan however was later cancelled. It was only after that, that Traiphum sold his custom Pillowed Hexaminxes.
Neither of us expected this mass produced one to be suddenly made now and there was clearly some misunderstanding down the line somewhere. Now that it exists though neither Traiphum or myself want to force it to be cancelled. I agree it is not an ideal situation for those who purchased Traiphum's custom made versions.
For those of us involved in this stuff it's an incredibly hard balancing act of doing what's right, what's best for ourselves and what's best for the buyers.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:15 pm 
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What will the base mechanism be? Will it be new or an exact copy of another brand?

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
For those of us involved in this stuff it's an incredibly hard balancing act of doing what's right, what's best for ourselves and what's best for the buyers.
Don't mass-produced puzzles make the hand-modded samples even more valuable? After all, now the buyer knows for sure that his limited-edition hand-made version is truly limited. It is equivalent to its maker dying without the associated tragedy.

Oskar

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Oskar wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
For those of us involved in this stuff it's an incredibly hard balancing act of doing what's right, what's best for ourselves and what's best for the buyers.
Don't mass-produced puzzles make the hand-modded samples even more valuable? After all, now the buyer knows for sure that his limited-edition hand-made version is truly limited. It is equivalent to its maker dying without the associated tragedy.

Oskar

It sure make the handmade version "limited" but if there is a mass produced version why get the handmade version? Of for the rare collection who want to have the mass produced and handmade version of the puzzle, he can probably "push" the seller to lower hes price by saying "why pay full price for a handmade version when I can get the mass produced version?" In a way or another (I think) it's a little bit sad for those who paid full price.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Oskar wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
For those of us involved in this stuff it's an incredibly hard balancing act of doing what's right, what's best for ourselves and what's best for the buyers.
Don't mass-produced puzzles make the hand-modded samples even more valuable? After all, now the buyer knows for sure that his limited-edition hand-made version is truly limited. It is equivalent to its maker dying without the associated tragedy.

Oskar

Most people simply want the puzzle. Only a few have great feelings about it's origins.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:59 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Modern-Day Warrior wrote:
Exciting news, although I have mixed feelings. I'm sure many people aren't too happy about paying either Tony Fisher or Traiphum the full price for their hand-made puzzles only to have it suddenly mass-produced.

It's not the same as mine and last year I discussed the pillowed version with as many buyers of my original as possible. They were happy for us to go ahead with a mass produced pillowed version if we decided to. This plan however was later cancelled. It was only after that, that Traiphum sold his custom Pillowed Hexaminxes.
Neither of us expected this mass produced one to be suddenly made now and there was clearly some misunderstanding down the line somewhere. Now that it exists though neither Traiphum or myself want to force it to be cancelled. I agree it is not an ideal situation for those who purchased Traiphum's custom made versions.
For those of us involved in this stuff it's an incredibly hard balancing act of doing what's right, what's best for ourselves and what's best for the buyers.

Yes, I understand you consider Traiphum's sufficiently different from your original. I only mean that would be my own opinion, were I to be an owner of either puzzle. I personally don't consider Traiphum's version a different enough version to be exempt from your do-not-sell list, just as I wouldn't consider my own version (which is slightly different from your original) to be exempt itself. (That's just my own opinion. Of course as the creator, it's up to your discretion). I understand it is an odd situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:11 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
For those of us involved in this stuff it's an incredibly hard balancing act of doing what's right, what's best for ourselves and what's best for the buyers.
I don't think it has to be that hard... my Bubbliod122 puzzle is out there in very limited numbers and I just had 8 more made for the coming IPP. But I don't rule out the possibility of it being mass produced down the road. No, its not currently on that path and there haven't even been any discussion with any producers, but I'd like to keep that possibility open. The issue I think comes from stating something along the lines of "this is a one time only run and you better get one now as it will never be available in the future". As a designer I've always wanted to get my designs in as many hands as possible... as affordably as possible. It's my creation and I want it to live. If only a small handful are ever made they cost a fortune and could end up in display cabinets of collectors and never be touched again so I'd sort of view that as a slow death. That's just my view and I respect other designers have their own views so I'm not trying to say my view is any better then anyone else's... its just my view. Besides a certain aspect of this is outside the designers control anyways. They can't keep a KO company from mass producing a puzzle they stated would never be available again and that puts the designer in a hard spot which in my view I think can be avoided.
Oskar wrote:
Don't mass-produced puzzles make the hand-modded samples even more valuable? After all, now the buyer knows for sure that his limited-edition hand-made version is truly limited. It is equivalent to its maker dying without the associated tragedy.
To a very small handful of collectors this is true... and most of the Shapeway puzzles I've purchased (that aren't my own designs) I view are good enough designs to be likely mass produced as some stage. I've purchased them anyways as I think they are great puzzles and I want to support the designers and to actually own a copy of the original design. Any later mass produced version will likely be a very different design as it will be designed for injection molding. But Tony is correct... the vast majority just want the puzzle to play with for as cheap as possible and likely don't know or even care about the original designer.
Drake wrote:
but I think if a dessigner make a batch of hand made puzzle, to sell them, the puzzle should not be mass produced afterward.
I'm in total disagreement with this statement. If a designer wants to keep their designs from being mass produced they are certainly free to try but even if they do there is no guarantee they'll be successful. But it goes against my view and as this is Father's Day and I have two boys I'll state it this way. I want my boys to be successful and to experience as much of the world as they can. I view my puzzles in a similar way except I want as much of the world to experience them as possible.

In the bigger picture why should puzzles be any different then ANY other item that is mass produced? The first cars were all hand made. The first planes were hand made. Just about any invention that has gone on to be mass produced has been tested and prototyped with hand made models along the way. The creators didn't then try to stop mass production to preserve the value of these models and prototypes did they? The first samples and hand made models of any design are always much more expensive then the later mass produced versions. So why is the expectation any different for puzzles?

Right or wrong its this view I have in mind when I purchase (or choose not to purchase) any puzzle (even if the designer has stated it will just be a limited run). That way I never have any regrets down the road nor do I expect any compensation from a designer later should their design be KO'ed. And I've never been sad to see a puzzle mass produced yet so I think its working for me.

Just my 2 cents...
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Once again we get back to the same old discussions. I thought this was made clear in previous threads.
When we talk about getting a puzzle mass produced, 99% of the time there are only a few thousand made and sold and they are a long way from appearing in every Toys R Us store. In addition, it's people like Calvin and Uwe Meffert who pay out thousands of dollars for the tooling etc. THEY are getting them mass produced, we are just on the sidelines. This all means that the returns for the designer are minuscule. I doubt very much if the amount I could make in the next 10 years from a mass produced flat Hexaminx would be much more than I can make on one hand made one. Combine this with upsetting some (as proven in this thread and from my 30 years experience) valued customers who paid for an original and the reasons for not mass producing some puzzles becomes very clear.
The fact that they are likely to get knocked off anyway is irrelevant. At least you keep your integrity if that happens.
If someone is thinking about quoting this post in the future and throwing it back in my face I should also add that there are some situations where for me mass production obviously does work and those valued customers can be consulted and / or compensated. Mostly though it doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Wwwmwww, I'm not against handmade puzzle being mass produced, what I mean in this case, is that Traiphum made a certain number of hexaminx (handmade), not because some one asked him to build one. He made those puzzles so a certain number of person can still enjoy it, because it wasn't suppose to get mass produced. As from now Traiphum made two other "big" batch of handmade pyzzle, the rexamorphix and the megamorphix. I'm "scared" that either one of those 2 will be mass produced to. It would be less bad if the people that own those handmade puzzle would had got them by asking the builder to build them, but in this case, the builder builded a bunch, so that some person can enjoy it. I'm not against the mass production of the hexaminx, I just find it unfair the way it has been done.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Once again we get back to the same old discussions. I thought this was made clear in previous threads.
True... this has probably all been said before.
Tony Fisher wrote:
I doubt very much if the amount I could make in the next 10 years from a mass produced flat Hexaminx would be much more than I can make on one hand made one. Combine this with upsetting some (as proven in this thread and from my 30 years experience) valued customers who paid for an original and the reasons for not mass producing some puzzles becomes very clear.
Certainly valid points... but if I tell my customers that the puzzle they are buying will be up on Shapeways and may someday be mass produced should I still need to worry about upsetting them? Granted it may cost me some money as those first few may not sell for as much but it gives me more piece of mind. As for what method would make you the most money in the long run I honestly don't know. I'm not really in this to get rich and I'm really just enjoying it as a hobby. If I were to try and run this as a business I'm sure I'd be underwater. So if I make a $1000 on one puzzle off eBay or $100 on one puzzle a year for the next 10 years off Shapeways it doesn't make much difference to me. And as you say... even if one of my designs were mass produced my payment would likely be a few free puzzles so I'd probably be making even less money. I personally would just really value the experience of seeing a child play with one of my puzzles knowing he got it for $20 more then I would seeing it set under glass in a collection someone had paid $1000 for. And no I'm not expecting to ever see my puzzles in Toys-R-Us.
Tony Fisher wrote:
The fact that they are likely to get knocked off anyway is irrelevant. At least you keep your integrity if that happens.
If someone is thinking about quoting this post in the future and throwing it back in my face I should also add that there are some situations where for me mass production obviously does work and those valued customers can be consulted and / or compensated. Mostly though it doesn't.
I certainly hope you don't believe I'm trying to throw your views back in your face. I respect your position. You've made many many more puzzles then I likely ever will and your goals and knowledge are certainly different then my own.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Drake wrote:
I just find it unfair the way it has been done.
Let me ask it this way...I had 8 Bubbloid122 puzzles made so that I would have something to sell at last years IPP. Most sold there and those that didn't have been sold since. To date its my best selling puzzle. I have now just had another 8 printed and I will have them for sale at this years IPP, not to mention that its also been for sale in my Shapeways shop all this time. I personally don't see much difference between what I'm doing now and what you describe... so let me ask... do you view my actions as unfair to those that purchased the first 8 Bubbliod122 puzzles? I'm certainly not out to make any of my customers upset any more the Tony or traiphum are.

I just have a hard time seeing what is unfair here. I believe informed consumers should be aware of the possibility of KO's or mass production down the line (as those are possibilities even if the designer doesn't wish it to be). And informed consumers should expect to pay a premium for the first few of just about anything. And in the case of Tony's puzzles and Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx you are also paying for all the work and time they put into making these puzzles by hand.

Are all the copies of the Mona Lisa out there worth as much as the original? If you are paying the big bucks for these rare hand crafted puzzles you must in some way be looking at them as works or art. At least that is how I justify buying the ones I have.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Personally, I collect puzzles for the fun/challenge of playing with them. I don't buy them for their value. So if I see a great handmade puzzle that I just have to have despite it's cost, I'll get it. If down the road it's mass produced, sure I could have saved some money, but I wanted it then, so no big deal. If the original loses some of it's value because of it, so be it, it's not like I'm going to sell it anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx to be Relea
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:56 pm 
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I think one of the major factors here is time related. Nowadays everyone expects puzzles to be mass produced eventually, either legit or KOed. That's very different to the first 2/3 of my career when puzzle makers and their customers never dreamed custom made puzzles would be mass produced, simply because the craze had mostly gone and only a handful of twisty puzzle fans existed. At that time people were paying an absolute fortune because they "knew" they would never own the puzzles otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillowed Hexaminx comi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:10 am 
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I can't say I am representative of the average collector or purchaser of custom puzzles, but a huge amount of my enjoyment of a puzzle is in owning something hand made by a craftsman. This is why I have been known to spend good money on a hand made version of something already mass produced. I'd rather have an original, and I don't intend to resell it so it's not an investment gamble.

I don't think this is overly common so a production run does, in the real world, diminish the market for the original at least to the designer who might make more. So even if the value of the resale of those existing original puzzles goes up, the market for new original versions takes a huge hit.

For an example take a look at the last few hand built Golden Cube auctions from Tony (cast green, purple). I've seen the production version sell for more, which I think is a very clear demonstration of how the market for the original suffers. Both are limited at this point but the appreciation for the hand built work isn't wide spread enough to come close to the $1000+ sales before it was mass produced. So not only has resale of originals suffered, but new originals as well.

Regarding some of the different points of view regarding the matter: I would guess the effort put in to a puzzle shapes the views of the designer. With both styles the first is the most work, but hand built or cast puzzles continue to take a lot of effort for each copy compared to printed puzzles where it drops quite dramatically.
I think you will find those who still hand build vs. print look at the world differently and look at compensation for any particular puzzle in a much different way. This is not to say either is right or wrong, but it may help explain why we see very differing perspectives.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx coming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:03 am 
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2nd prototype of pillow hexaminx with Tony logo.
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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx coming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:04 am 
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having bought one of the hand made pillowed versions, and making 3 1/2 flat versions, i have slightly mixed feelings about this. though it would be cool to have another version of the puzzle to actually rough house with and not turn it like it is a pillow (get it?) anyways, a massed produced version is good. i have something no one else have, save a handful of people. i bought an axis cube even after they were mass produced.

but in this instance, getting a puzzle for a few buck instead of 250... well that kind of makes a mad and feel a little cheated. it is claimed the value will not go down, but i disagree. i would not pay 250 for a handmade hex when i can get the same puzzle for 10 bucks (i know the price wont be 10 bucks, just an example) made from cheaper plastic, if fact i woudl lean towards having the cheaper one so i can play with it.

but these are not my products or designs, so.....

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx coming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:17 am 
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Squircifer wrote:
but in this instance, getting a puzzle for a few buck instead of 250... well that kind of makes a mad and feel a little cheated. it is claimed the value will not go down, but i disagree.
I also agree the selling price of the hand made puzzle will go down, but are you mad because it lost resale value or because you didn't know you might get it cheaper in the future?

I think if Traiphum knew it was going to be mass produced and didn't mention it that would make one feel cheated, but I don't think that was the case. When I was selling my hand built Kilominx I informed those on my waiting list that I was talking with Meffert about the Flowerminx and so I feel the two customers who proceeded anyway were fully informed.

At this point in the TwistyPuzzle market we have the great fortune to see designs produced left and right. This is something we used to dream of not more than a few years ago.

I certainly understand the feeling that one has paid more than required though. I would caution that at this point your only protection is to expect it to be produced, or get comfortable collecting hand built works for their art value.

Dave :)

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx coming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:31 am 
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DLitwin wrote:
I think if Traiphum knew it was going to be mass produced and didn't mention it that would make one feel cheated, but I don't think that was the case.

That's correct, he was as surprised as I was. He only sold his version after all talks of a mass produced one ceased.
Values of puzzles can change considerably. There may be a time when these Pillowed Hexaminxes are not being produced and sell out. At that time the hand made versions will steadily increase in value again. I have seen similar things happen with other puzzles.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx coming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:19 pm 
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DLitwin wrote:
Squircifer wrote:
but in this instance, getting a puzzle for a few buck instead of 250... well that kind of makes a mad and feel a little cheated. it is claimed the value will not go down, but i disagree.
I also agree the selling price of the hand made puzzle will go down, but are you mad because it lost resale value or because you didn't know you might get it cheaper in the future?

I think if Traiphum knew it was going to be mass produced and didn't mention it that would make one feel cheated, but I don't think that was the case. When I was selling my hand built Kilominx I informed those on my waiting list that I was talking with Meffert about the Flowerminx and so I feel the two customers who proceeded anyway were fully informed.

At this point in the TwistyPuzzle market we have the great fortune to see designs produced left and right. This is something we used to dream of not more than a few years ago.

I certainly understand the feeling that one has paid more than required though. I would caution that at this point your only protection is to expect it to be produced, or get comfortable collecting hand built works for their art value.

Dave :)


hi there, it is not so much a mad/cheated feeling in that regard..more than likely i will be getting one or two of the mass produced puzzles. it is hard to describe actually. i get that at that point in time there was no thought or actual plans for a mass produced puzzle, i know that i have a piece of art to a degree.

i can imagine that designers would love to get their designs mass produced, but over the years of trying to get/make a certain puzzle that was not allowed to be sold by anyone other than the designer (regardless of the honor system or not), then finally getting one that took forever and did not really cost a fortune from ebay every so many months... it is a tad disappointing to say the least. it feels like an official "knock off" if you know what i mean.

also you would think that English is not my mother tongue... the net is not your friend when not fully medicated.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx coming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:21 pm 
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but, like i said, i will be getting at least one to play with and one to mod into something i am sure won't work, but well... i like to break things.

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx coming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:54 pm 
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I'm really looking forward to the mass-produced Hexaminx. It will be possible to carry it around and show people, not something I would do with an expensive hand-made puzzle.

Has anyone ever made a Void Hexaminx? In this case, it might be more practical to make a"Mask Hexaminx" where the centres are all a 7th colour.

Since all of my wishes are being granted this summer, I'm just going to put this expensive-Shapeways-to-mass-produced wish right here: "Radiolarian 3". :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Calvin's Puzzle - Tony & Traiphum Pillow Hexaminx coming
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:28 am 
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IMO the value or hand crafted puzzles will never go down. maybe in resell value, but that I dont care about :D
Seeing puzzles coming to the market mass produced always makes me happy. Then everybody have a chance to play with a discount version of the real thing.

Pete out of curiosity, why would you want a radio3? its exactly the same as Eitan's Star.

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