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 Post subject: Deeper cut FT tetragonal trapezohedron aka Crystal Trap!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:13 am 
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Hello everyone!

I am proud to show my first (unstickered) twisty puzzle, the deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron.

If one imagines David Pitcher's Jumble Trap as a megaminx equivalent, then this is the pyraminx crystal.

I have also unbandaged some pieces for more jumbling.

Unstickered
Image


Turning
Image

More turns
Image

The insides
Image

The puzzle turns somewhat like a pyraminx crystal, where the floating edges are somewhat squishy and occasionally catch. Other than that, it turns well.

One more thing, I need name suggestions! I was going to call it Crystal Trap, but I will see what you guys can suggest.

Thanks for viewing!

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:33 am 
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This is amazing! I'm actually a big fan of David Pitcher's Jumble trap, even though I don't have it; and the pyraminx crystal is my favourite mass produced puzzle so far!! I'm seriously loving this puzzle! As for a name what about "Jumble Trap II - Unbandaged"? Similarly to how TomZ's curvy copter II is a deeper cut curvy copter? I'd get David Pitchers permission first of course!! Will this be on shapeways? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:50 am 
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It will be on shapeways. Once I increase the fillets a little to reduce catching. Also once the stickers arrive.

Another fun fact is that it is missing one internal edge piece. Still works well without it, although I'm contacting shapeways about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:22 am 
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I hate unstickered puzzles but will love this one after it is finished.


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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:36 am 
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Very nice! I think it will look beautiful once it's stickered. I like both name ideas suggested so far, but "Crystal Trap" does have a nice ring to it.

Have you noticed whether there is any hidden bandaging, where a slice looks like it should be able to turn but cannot due to the orientation of the hidden center (axle) pieces?

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:35 pm 
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David Pitcher wrote:
Very nice! I think it will look beautiful once it's stickered. I like both name ideas suggested so far, but "Crystal Trap" does have a nice ring to it.

Have you noticed whether there is any hidden bandaging, where a slice looks like it should be able to turn but cannot due to the orientation of the hidden center (axle) pieces?


Actually, I did two forms of unbandaging to this puzzle. The first was on the surface level to make more pyraminx crystal like edges, and the second, equivalent to the unbandaging of your Jumble Trap, to remove internal bandaging.

Still, internal bandaging exists.

Here, the red cut looks possible, but internally it is blocked, as you said, by the center pieces.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:31 pm 
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How deep could the cuts go on this shape? Would a starminx sort of cut depth still function? I feel like there's something preventing cuts getting too deep; mainly the shape of the centres on David Pitcher's Jumble Trap.

Edit: Also could anything be done to unbandage that turn? You said it's due to the shape of the centres, could they be cut or fudged to allow this move? If it can't be done I'm satisfied with this puzzle, if it can be done, it should! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:51 pm 
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I played around with Solidworks and came up with the shapes of even deeper versions:

This is the starminx version.
Image

And a (perhaps) deeper than origin version
Image

I don't think that I would unbandage that cut though. The centre would get cut into really tiny pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:11 am 
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This is so cool! I might have to hold off getting a different shapeways puzzle for this and David's Jumble Trap! Do you know if your puzzle is the same size as his?

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:17 am 
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Wow, I love it! Crystal is a must in the name.
One more vote for Crystal Trap!

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 Post subject: Crystal Trap puzzle!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:41 am 
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This is the (now stickered) Crystal Trap puzzle. Crystal Trap is a deeper cut tetragonal trapezohedron. It is a jumbling only puzzle.

I have also unbandaged the puzzle twice. One creates more pyraminx crystal like edges on the surface and the other is internal. Once I make small changes to the design, I will sell this on Shapeways.

Solved
Image

After one turn
Image

More turns
Image

This turn would be impossible if I did not unbandage internally.
Image

Scrambled pics. Really this looks horrible when scrambled.
Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut face turning tetragonal trapezohedron!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:42 am 
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Thanks for all the nice comments!
I have finished stickering the puzzle.

[Moderator: Originally the post above was posted in a new topic. I contacted the author and merged back the other topic. We want to keep things together :) ]

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 Post subject: Re: Crystal Trap puzzle!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:21 am 
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This looks amazing stickered, it makes me want one even more.

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut FT tetragonal trapezohedron aka Crystal Trap!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:27 pm 
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That is certainly a beauty now that it's stickered!

I had started looking at the other deeper-cut geometries you showed a while back when I was making the Jumble Trap, but decided to keep things simple. It would be interesting to see how those behave though, and whether there is excessive internal bandaging that occurs as the cuts get deeper.

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut FT tetragonal trapezohedron aka Crystal Trap!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:44 am 
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An update:

This puzzle is now available on Shapeways for $99 USD (along with a few other unprototyped stuff) here: http://www.shapeways.com/model/1105682/crystal-trap.html?li=productBox-search

Stickers will be available from Oliver's shop soon.

I've also uploaded a simple video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2yKps6lsts
NOTE: This video shows the first prototype. It locks up somewhat. The shapeways model is an improved version with increased fillets to reduce the problem.

This next bit is a bit more technical.

David, you mentioned in your Jumble Trap video that it could stop at four places for new turns. However, I counted 6 on mine. Did you make a mistake, or is there something different with the Crystal Trap?

And, could someone (by someone I mean Allagem :roll:) calculate the angles for all 6 of these stopping points?

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut FT tetragonal trapezohedron aka Crystal Trap!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:32 am 
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Yet another update:
Stickers are now available at Oliver's shop:

http://speedcubing.hu/webshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_63&products_id=480

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut FT tetragonal trapezohedron aka Crystal Trap!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:00 am 
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Sorry I missed this earlier! I'm glad you posted an update, I caught it this time :)
rubikcollector123 wrote:
David, you mentioned in your Jumble Trap video that it could stop at four places for new turns. However, I counted 6 on mine. Did you make a mistake, or is there something different with the Crystal Trap?

Well, 7 if you count the starting position, which I like to do when I make these lists.
rubikcollector123 wrote:
And, could someone (by someone I mean Allagem :roll:) calculate the angles for all 6 of these stopping points?

You know me so well :P Sure can, here ya go:

Every face will interact with at least one other face on the puzzle at all of the following angles:
0
78.0471441093 = arccos((sqrt(2)-1)/2)
125.8585676721 = arccos(sqrt(2)-2)
156.0942882186 = arccos(1/2-sqrt(2))
203.9057117814 = -arccos(1/2-sqrt(2))
234.1414323279 = -arccos(sqrt(2)-2)
281.9528558907 = -arccos((sqrt(2)-1)/2)

All of these angles should produce interactions on David Pitcher's Jumble Trap as well. However, there is indeed something new on the Crystal Trap. These two angles in particular:
156.094
203.906
actually jumble at TWO different depths! The shallower depth that movs a large chunk of the puzzle and the deeper uh... depth... that moves only a single crystal edge. The deeper of these two depths would not be present on the Jumble Trap, but the shallower one still would be present. Note though that 78.047 *2 = 156.094 and 281.953 *2 = 563.906 = 203.906 so it is possible David combined these for the sake of simplicity as, on the Jumble Trap, it really is just the same phenomenon happening again another multiple of the "magic angle" later and really not a surprise once you one iteration of the angle work. The deeper jumbling interaction, present only on the Crystal Trap, is unrelated to the half angle though :wink:

Beautiful puzzle by the way! It reminds me of the More Madness in that the cuts are reasonably uncluttered, but it looks borderline impossible to scramble. I imagine that this puzzle's difficulty will be off the charts. It looks dastardly disorienting in any shape other than solved. 8-)

Peace,
Matt Galla


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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut FT tetragonal trapezohedron aka Crystal Trap!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:20 am 
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Thanks for the analysis. There is one thing i would disagree with. This puzzle is actually easy to scramble. At least, the 3 fold corners and pyraminx crystal edges are. There is a 4 move sequence resembling the sexy move on the rubiks cube that swaps a bunch of them around.

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 Post subject: Re: Deeper cut FT tetragonal trapezohedron aka Crystal Trap!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:40 am 
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rubikcollector123 wrote:
David, you mentioned in your Jumble Trap video that it could stop at four places for new turns. However, I counted 6 on mine. Did you make a mistake, or is there something different with the Crystal Trap?
You are quite correct, I completely missed two of the potential turn types when I said there four stops (or five if you include the starting position). Whoops! :oops:

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