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 Post subject: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:04 am 
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Hello fellow twisty-puzzlers! :D
I'd like to present my version of:
Master Little Chop
New video
Old video
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The Master Little Chop is essentially a master version of a Little Chop in that it has shallower cuts which creates extra pieces. It can also be viewed as a deeper cut DECETH and is geometrically cut-equivalent to the ETHAN and Solar Octahedron.
This is therefore not a new puzzle, but it is the best prototype that has been made so far. I have designed it with several things in mind:
1) I chose to use curvy cuts to make the small triangular pieces as large and as evenly sized as possible, to reduce catching and sliding.
2) I used 2 layers of grooves in the third shell of the puzzle (similar to a V-cube mechanism) to increase stability and prevent popping.
3) I made the puzzle 65mm to an edge to fit room for a larger core than normal (it sounds big but it isn't big at all!)
Despite these, the prototype still has issues. Luckily I know what they are and what is causing them, and I will be designing a V2 which will hopefully be available on Shapeways by the end of the month.
And now for some EPIC jumbling:
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...and that is as far as I will go :shock:
Near the middle of the new video I demonstrate the odd jumbling property of this puzzle, in that while the outside may look like it can turn, the inside shells are sometimes blocked by the jumbling and therefore it can't turn. Do you think this puzzle is still possible to solve despite this?
Enjoy!

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Last edited by benpuzzles on Sat May 11, 2013 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:50 am 
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Wow! I dont think it is missing as stated in your hint. Wasnt there ETHAN?

My original guess in the hint thread was right after all

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:54 am 
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Amazing and beautiful! Do you think that you will be selling this on Shapeways any time? Do you think it could be mass-produced?

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:31 am 
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Absolutely wonderful!I like it very much.
What you posted made me thought that this is a new version of an existing puzzle, but it's absolutely not.
It's that possible to avoid the curvy cut, though? I guess that'll be even better! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:45 am 
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Linxiao_Xu wrote:
Absolutely wonderful!I like it very much.
What you posted made me thought that this is a new version of an existing puzzle, but it's absolutely not.
It's that possible to avoid the curvy cut, though? I guess that'll be even better! :)


This is very similar to the ETHAN, though this has curved cuts and is MUCH more stable by the looks of it.

Well done Ben, I love edge turning puzzles!

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:06 am 
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Incredible! There can never be enough deeper-cut edge-turning cubes!
Although there simply aren't enough in Rhombic Dodecahedra form...

-Doug

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:53 am 
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Eh, okaaay...who will be able to solve this once it's scrambled?

Fantastic!

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:43 pm 
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That is beautiful! And it turns so well!

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Thanks for the encouragement everyone!
I have updated the original post with new pictures and video.
Doug Roth wrote:
Incredible! There can never be enough deeper-cut edge-turning cubes!

I think there is a limit to how many there can be :wink:
Linxiao_Xu wrote:
What you posted made me thought that this is a new version of an existing puzzle, but it's absolutely not.

When I said it was "missing" I meant a good, functioning, solvable version.
Gus wrote:
Amazing and beautiful! Do you think that you will be selling this on Shapeways any time? Do you think it could be mass-produced?

Like I said in my first post it needs a redesign for better turning and smoothness, so I hope to have it available by the end of the month. As for mass production, I doubt it. The puzzle uses three shells, and most shells any mass produced puzzle has had is two.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:07 pm 
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Easily one of my favorites!


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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:00 am 
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The Outlook of your puzzle impress me a lot, The design & turning of the puzzle is very great! But after watching the video, I'm frightened! Two different jumbling way including inner non-visible mechanism & even blocking! Is this puzzle even solvable!? :shock:

Your design is gorgeous, by the way~


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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:25 am 
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Allright. Time to put my solving and jumbling theories to the test... :?: ... :shock:
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It sounded like a good idea at the time... :?
I just noticed that in this discombobulation/mishmash/hodgepodge (whatever you want to call it) that some sides look as though they can turn on the outside, but can't due to the internal bandaging...
All I can say is: wish me luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:11 am 
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The ETHAN was lying on my list of "problematic puzzles" because it hasn't been finished and therefore I had no images to enter.
Now I can get fill this slot. Thank you very much.


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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:51 am 
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I somehow managed to unjumble it :shock:
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and when I went to turn it...every side was UNblocked :D
So it's obvious that the jumbling of the external "tip" pieces is related to the jumbling of the internal pieces, so that when the outside is unjumbled, the inside will always be unjumbled as well. Boy, that's REALLY nice to know 8-)
But now I have another question: are there any piece orbits on this puzzle? If so, that might present a solving problem later on...oh well.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:03 am 
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It looks really beautiful in this state :D

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:54 pm 
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That is one beautiful puzzle you have there!
Hope it goes on Shapeways.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:05 pm 
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All centers, edges, and corners solved: 8-)
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It's going quite smoothly so far, without any orbit issues that I can see.
I think that maybe the 24-cube pieces or the pentagons might have orbits, but I'm not sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:07 pm 
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Beautiful puzzle. I love it.

Chris.


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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:57 am 
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benpuzzles wrote:
All centers, edges, and corners solved: 8-)
[... beautiful images ...]
It's going quite smoothly so far, without any orbit issues that I can see.
I think that maybe the 24-cube pieces or the pentagons might have orbits, but I'm not sure.

I think the Master Little Chop is borderline unsolvable by hand. The setups and the move sequences are just too long an hard.

If you haven't seen it, check out my Master Little Chop (3.3.6) solving guide.

The irregular pentagon pieces (house pieces or X-centers) are not in distinct orbits. The 24 Little Chop triangles also aren't in any orbits.

You shouldn't run into any orbit / orientation / parity issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:19 am 
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Is this the hint with the solidworks image this puzzle?

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:48 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
I think the Master Little Chop is borderline unsolvable by hand. The setups and the move sequences are just too long an hard.

You might be right, and as you can tell I haven't made much progress in the solve (other than solving the 'tip' pieces on 2 opposite faces). I think that it will only be a matter of time before I solve those pieces, and then I'll have to move onto the pentagons and 24-cube triangles.
I've found multiple commutators for all of the piece types so far except for the 24-cube triangles, which I honestly think might be too difficult to physically solve without messing up the very long commutators. But we'll have to see, won't we? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:19 pm 
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This puzzle was one of my favorite solving experiences on GB (3.3.6), so I'm glad such a well-functioning version has been made. It looks beautiful Ben! I really like the way it looks with the curvy cuts.

I used a much different solving method than Brandon (tailored for fewest-moves), which involved solving the 24-cube pieces first with a simple non-commutator method: http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopi ... 05#p276705 (there's more detail about the 24-cube pieces on the next page of the thread)

Regardless of what approach you use, I think the hardest part for the physical puzzle (post-unjumbling) is the setups for the chirals. I recall those setups being extremely difficult to work out near the end. I personally don't think performing really long algs for edge turning puzzles is too difficult because you don't have to remember whether each turn is CW/CCW/180, you only need to remember the order of edges to turn (or slice turns I suppose). Following Brandon's outline for example, you would only need to remember a string of 7 edges forwards and backwards to memorize the longest commutator in his recommended order.

Ben, you seem to be doing quite well with your solve so far. I have confidence in your ability to finish it!


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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Wow, this looks amazing. Nice work!

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:04 pm 
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First this looks like a mass produce and it looks very nice. I was wondering why you would call this puzzle Master Little Chop? Because I cannot find another layer on each face or I'm am missing something. Master equals one more layer. This puzzle is more shallow then the little chop but deeper then the Helicopter cube. I know wwwmwww made a animation starting from the Little Chop to Helicopter cube or vice a verse a but I can't find it, it is late and he also has a lot of informational posts. You can call it what you want to but I was pointing out the facts unless I am missing something. Please don't be mad at me and I'm not trying to start a fight because I love it here. If this does bothers you I will delete it upon your wishes.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Little Chop
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:05 am 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
First this looks like a mass produce and it looks very nice. I was wondering why you would call this puzzle Master Little Chop? Because I cannot find another layer on each face or I'm am missing something. Master equals one more layer. This puzzle is more shallow then the little chop but deeper then the Helicopter cube. I know wwwmwww made a animation starting from the Little Chop to Helicopter cube or vice a verse a but I can't find it, it is late and he also has a lot of informational posts. You can call it what you want to but I was pointing out the facts unless I am missing something. Please don't be mad at me and I'm not trying to start a fight because I love it here. If this does bothers you I will delete it upon your wishes.


As you said already, it has shallower cuts then the Little Chop. Just like a 3x3x3 Cube is shallower than a 2x2x2. The point is that the Little Chop pieces are all there. So The name is ok. The additional layer is between the opposite edges. Not on any face.
Yes, if the cuts were even shallower up to the point where the Little Chop pieces disappear it wouldn't be a Master Little Chop anymore but only something between Helicopter and Little Chop.

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