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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:05 pm 
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Mine started off a little stiff at first. It is normal with such complex puzzles. I have not lubed it yet, but most puzzles I try improve dramatically with a little bit of silicone spray. Possibly a drop of silicone on each of the 30 edges, then rotate every face several times.

I perfomed some two-face simple algorithms on it, and i am blown away by the complexity of this puzzle. Basically, I used something equivalent to (FRF'R')*n using two adjacent faces, which is a very useful algorithm for solving the cube and megaminx.

I developed a custom solution that i use for the cube, basically a modified version of Meffert's published Megaminx solution, because I have a learning disability that makes blunt memorization extremely difficult. Basically, I can follow an algorithm on paper, but I cannot memorize them to save my life. Anyway, this simple algorithm, when repeated, does many useful things on a variety of puzzles. Using 2x on diagonally opposed faces on the Pyraminx Crystal, for example, does a three-edge commutator without disrupting the corners. On every puzzle I have ever attempted this algorithm, it brings the puzzle back to a solved position rather quickly.

Anyway, it took a very, very, very long time to resolve the edges and face centers affected by the two triangular faces, at which point in time I noticed that two pairs of corners were swapped. Continuing the pattern for just as long returned the corners to their correct positions, albeit with all four corners twisted. Rather than sit up half the night continuing the pattern ad infinitum to solve it, i pretty much cheated by force-twisting the corners back to their solved orientation.

If such a simple set of moves takes an excruciatingly long time for the puzzle to return to solved status, then I'm genuinely afraid that if I ever scramble this puzzle, I may never be able to solve it agian. :shock:

Has anybody worked out the exact number of unique positions on a 20-color Eitan's Star? I'm sure it's well over One Gogool...

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:40 pm 
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stardust4ever wrote:
Has anybody worked out the exact number of unique positions on a 20-color Eitan's Star? I'm sure it's well over One Gogool...


It looks to me like there's
(20!/2*60!/(3!)^20*60!/2*12!/2*5^12/5)/60 ≈ 2.24499 x 10^180
positions, so indeed significantly larger than a googol.

Peace,
Matt Galla


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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:02 am 
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The 10 free copies just arrived, along with a couple of surprises. Martin (I think it was Martin...) included an MF8 megaminx, which fills a long-time hole in my collection (I hacked my megaminx apart several years ago), as well as a Curvy Starminx, which hasn't even been released yet.

Regarding the 12 Eitan's Stars that I now have, 4 or 5 of them will be going to people at my university. The others, I am still undecided on. I am thinking of auctioning off 2 or 3 of them, signed. The rest, I'm going to keep as special gifts.

There are a few issues with signing and auctioning puzzles off:
1. Because of the unfortunate way the puzzles are packaged, to sticker the puzzle, I must break the seal (the gold sticker all the way around the package.
2. If I want to sign the puzzle itself, see #1 (plus I would have to sticker it, in which case, see #1).
3. Instead, I could just sign the package, but that already has my logo on it, and I would much rather sign something that I had a part in designing, which makes me lean toward #1.

I am wondering who wouldn't want a copy of the puzzle if the seal were broken. Does it matter to anyone? If so, I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks.

-Eitan


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2013-04-28 19.44.20.jpg
2013-04-28 19.44.20.jpg [ 2.61 MiB | Viewed 3239 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:39 am 
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pirsquared wrote:
The 10 free copies just arrived, along with a couple of surprises. Martin (I think it was Martin...) included an MF8 megaminx, which fills a long-time hole in my collection (I hacked my megaminx apart several years ago), as well as a Curvy Starminx, which hasn't even been released yet.

Regarding the 12 Eitan's Stars that I now have, 4 or 5 of them will be going to people at my university. The others, I am still undecided on. I am thinking of auctioning off 2 or 3 of them, signed. The rest, I'm going to keep as special gifts.

There are a few issues with signing and auctioning puzzles off:
1. Because of the unfortunate way the puzzles are packaged, to sticker the puzzle, I must break the seal (the gold sticker all the way around the package.
2. If I want to sign the puzzle itself, see #1 (plus I would have to sticker it, in which case, see #1).
3. Instead, I could just sign the package, but that already has my logo on it, and I would much rather sign something that I had a part in designing, which makes me lean toward #1.

I am wondering who wouldn't want a copy of the puzzle if the seal were broken. Does it matter to anyone? If so, I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks.

-Eitan
It is truly sad that designers get paid royalties in puzzles instead of some more useful form of collateral (like cash). Shim/Timur told me Meffert has a similar policy in paying out royalties.

I would recommend if you decide to open the plastic case to sticker and sign the inner puzzle, to use a sharp hobby knife to cut strait down the center seam, so that the case can be opened without completely destroying the label.

That said, I collect things to play with them, not to sit on a shelf. (My two collection hobbies consist of twisty puzzles and retro video games - these two very different hobbies have one thing in common in that they both involve a deep level of user interaction). However, many collectors in any hobby may often prefer to have things in their original boxes for preservation purposes, and I believe most collectors of signed items would prefer them unopened.

Because the puzzle is black in clear packaging, I would recommend leaving the seal intact and signing the plastic carton with a silver marker for maximum contrast. Then if buyer specially requests a fully stickered puzzle for an extra fee (because applying 260 stickers is a lot of work), you can break the seal by carefully cutting the inner seam with minimal damage, then apply all 20 sides of stickers to the puzzle, sign the white face, and place it back in the box face up.

In other words, it is best to wait and let the buyer decide how he/she wants it.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:51 am 
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I received my puzzle over the weekend and I am very happy with it, it turns well (if a little tight) and looks great. Has anyone disassembled it yet to lube it?

Regarding the packaging, I think that mf8 have missed a trick here. It looks great when sealed, but once apart it is not much good. The two halves do not have any tabs/slots so that they can fit together, just a flat surface, so they slide about. Also, the legs should have also been designed with tabs/slots so that they would allow for the secure stacking of one box on another, which they are obviously designed for. I know that this picture shows the boxes stacked "open", but does this mean you throw away one half when you put the puzzle in your display cabinet?

And the seal! Since the tape is paper based it is almost impossible to open it without tearing the tape (if you want to re-seal it after stickering), and even if you just want to remove it completely this is difficult for the same reason.

Sorry about the rants Eitan/mf8, the puzzle is truly awesome, but why spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar? :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:55 am 
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Eitan,

I would very happily take a signed one with the seal broken.

The box is nice. But I buy my puzzles (I have 670 of them - 90 twisties) and every single one is played with! It is the puzzle that counts - a signed one would be fantastic, but I still want to play with it! I fully intend to scramble and try to solve your Master curvy copter when you've made it!!

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:56 am 
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As they are not pre-stickered why not just sign the sticker then you can leave it up to the winner whether they want to open and apply the stickers or not?
Also - off topic - how is the curvy starminx? Is it a prototype or ready to be released? How is the turning?


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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:12 am 
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stardust4ever wrote:
... In other words, it is best to wait and let the buyer decide how he/she wants it.
Good ideas. I'll sign the outer package and a sticker, then list it on eBay, and say that if you win you can request that I sticker it before sending it along, for an extra fee (which will be specified in the listing).

Gus wrote:
Regarding the packaging, I think that mf8 have missed a trick here. ...
Well said, Gus. I think I'm going to try to design a stand for this puzzle with my logo on it. I'll try to cover up as little of the puzzle as possible. Might not happen for a few weeks, but I'll post some style options here when I come up with them. I'm also open to suggestions.

Zzupler wrote:
Also - off topic - how is the curvy starminx? Is it a prototype or ready to be released? How is the turning?
Not sure if it's a prototype, but it turns very well and looks fantastic.

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:11 am 
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Gus wrote:
Has anyone disassembled it yet to lube it?

So after my first solve I took out two of the screws to lube it and very slightly loosen the others.
Let me tell you first it turns fantasticly now. :D

I would even say the lube did 80% to the turning quality. Disassembly is not even necessary. Even if you have lubricant spray. Just take a plastik wrap/film and cut a piece off. Spray the piece from a very close distance. You will see how it loses it's transparency by the aggressive gas. Then you will see the silicone running down the stripe between the pieces.

If you still have to adjust you can still do it. The plastic of the pieces is really hard and durable, like that of the Starminx II. After one solve and I did not try to get the fewest moves possible, there wasn't a bit of dust. Cleaning isn't necessary unless after I can't imagine how much work. By the way, some pieces consist of two parts with a screw as well. These are the center face and long triangles.

I also took pictures. It was late, I used my phone camera, but the pictures aren't blurred.
Attachment:
star4.jpg
star4.jpg [ 379.82 KiB | Viewed 3148 times ]

Attachment:
star3.jpg
star3.jpg [ 381.78 KiB | Viewed 3148 times ]

The puzzle has two shells. The first pieces you see when disassembling slide in grooves. On a deeper level there are the centers which don't turn and are screwed to the core. It's built up like the Starminx I and Bauhinia Dodecahedron. There are pieces between those stems that turn and the hidden Starminx I edge pieces. The center mechanism has large fillets.
Attachment:
star2.jpg
star2.jpg [ 404.12 KiB | Viewed 3148 times ]

Attachment:
star1.jpg
star1.jpg [ 348.37 KiB | Viewed 3148 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:09 pm 
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pirsquared wrote:
There are a few issues with signing and auctioning puzzles off:
1. Because of the unfortunate way the puzzles are packaged, to sticker the puzzle, I must break the seal (the gold sticker all the way around the package.
There is no need to break the seal all the way around the package. You could leave one side intact (I kept the one with Eitan's star :) ), and still remove the puzzle easily, as shown in the picture below. This way you'll also avoid the problem Gus mentioned about the two halves of the package just sliding about since they don't have any tabs/slots that fit together.

Image

Gus wrote:
Also, the legs should have also been designed with tabs/slots so that they would allow for the secure stacking of one box on another, which they are obviously designed for. I know that this picture shows the boxes stacked "open", but does this mean you throw away one half when you put the puzzle in your display cabinet?
If you happen to have some marbles lying around, I have found that they are useful for stabilizing these boxes if you are planning on stacking them:

Image

Anyway, I am thrilled with the quality of this puzzle! Like some have said, it's a little stiff right out of the box, but I have not experienced any lock-ups, and it turns much better than my Starminx II. I'm glad MF8 has taken the time to get such a high quality puzzle to the market. It was well worth the wait. :)

Thank you so much Eitan and MF8!


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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Allagem wrote:
stardust4ever wrote:
Has anybody worked out the exact number of unique positions on a 20-color Eitan's Star? I'm sure it's well over One Gogool...


It looks to me like there's
(20!/2*60!/(3!)^20*60!/2*12!/2*5^12/5)/60 ≈ 2.24499 x 10^180
positions, so indeed significantly larger than a googol.

I got the same value. Here is the full expansion:

Code:
? (((12! / 2) * (5^12 / 5)) * (20! / 2) * (60! / (3! ^ 20)) * (60! / 2)) / 60
%1 = 2244993471433157496895932168123233669700755234365187419849
509622026846497302231883092088730046235053190997378990089032638
895351209236889600000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
? log(%1) / log(10)
%2 = 180.35121508238848359788735321693888838

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:36 pm 
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You can't take a blow drier to those seals and pull off apart ever so gently? They're fully on there?


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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:59 am 
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Klara wrote:
There is no need to break the seal all the way around the package. You could leave one side intact (I kept the one with Eitan's star :) ), and still remove the puzzle easily
Good idea, but since the tape is not very durable I don't think it will last very long as a hinge.
Klara wrote:
If you happen to have some marbles lying around, I have found that they are useful for stabilizing these boxes if you are planning on stacking them:
Another great idea, and the marbles look quite nice inside the clear plastic legs.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:05 am 
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pirsquared wrote:
Gus wrote:
Regarding the packaging, I think that mf8 have missed a trick here. ...
Well said, Gus. I think I'm going to try to design a stand for this puzzle with my logo on it. I'll try to cover up as little of the puzzle as possible. Might not happen for a few weeks, but I'll post some style options here when I come up with them. I'm also open to suggestions.
If mf8 has designed something like this ...
Attachment:
File comment: mf8 box
mf8 box.png
mf8 box.png [ 58.15 KiB | Viewed 2961 times ]
... then it would stack securely and the two halves would "lock" together, with only one mold required.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:42 am 
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bmenrigh wrote:
....I got the same value. Here is the full expansion:

Code:
? (((12! / 2) * (5^12 / 5)) * (20! / 2) * (60! / (3! ^ 20)) * (60! / 2)) / 60
%1 = 2244993471433157496895932168123233669700755234365187419849
509622026846497302231883092088730046235053190997378990089032638
895351209236889600000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
? log(%1) / log(10)
%2 = 180.35121508238848359788735321693888838
Just for fun, I tried to calculate the number using gp/pari. I put in
Code:
(((factorial(12)/2)*5^11)*(factorial(20)/2)*(factorial(60)/(factorial(3)^20))*(factorial(60)/2))/60
and got 2.244993471433157496895932168 E180
The precision is 28 digits.
I'm using an Intel laptop with 64bit.
From Excel I'm getting these leading digists only: 224499347143316

How did you get all digits?

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:55 am 
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Gus, I was thinking of something much more elegant than that. Something closer in style to the original Rubik's Cube stand. I'll post something here when I get some time.

By the way, that marbles idea is BRILLIANT, Klara!

Konrad wrote:
How did you get all digits?
What, you can't do that by hand? ;)

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 am 
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Konrad wrote:
How did you get all digits?
Just copy and paste the expression into Wolfram Alpha.

@Eitan: That picture was just to show that the existing mf8 box could have been made to lock and stack properly. I look forward to your design - will it be able to do DDH as well?

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Konrad wrote:
Just for fun, I tried to calculate the number using gp/pari. I put in
Code:
(((factorial(12)/2)*5^11)*(factorial(20)/2)*(factorial(60)/(factorial(3)^20))*(factorial(60)/2))/60
and got 2.244993471433157496895932168 E180
The precision is 28 digits.
I'm using an Intel laptop with 64bit.
From Excel I'm getting these leading digists only: 224499347143316

How did you get all digits?

That's a good question. GP/PARI will always maintain arbitrary precision when working with integers. As soon as any real number is involved it'll just maintain the previously specified internal precision. Since everything in your expression is an integer, the real numbers must come from the factorial() function (I just used the ! operator). I wasn't aware that factorial() was any different than ! but clearly it is.

From the documentation at http://pari.math.u-bordeaux.fr/dochtml/html.stable/Arithmetic_functions.html:
Quote:
factorial(x)

factorial of x. The expression x! gives a result which is an integer, while factorial(x) gives a real number.


So you have two options. Use ! instead of factorial() or when you get "2.2449934714331574968959321681232336697 E180" you know you need at least 181 digits of precision so you can set the precision like so:

Code:
? \p 185
   realprecision = 192 significant digits (185 digits displayed)
? (((factorial(12)/2)*5^11)*(factorial(20)/2)*(factorial(60)/(factorial(3)^20))*(factorial(60)/2))/60
%2 = 224499347143315749689593216812323366970075523436518741984950962202
68464973022318830920887300462350531909973789900890326388953512092368896
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000


As an aside, some day I'd like to create a catalog of the calculations for all of the common puzzles. Jaap's site is great but it doesn't address many of the newer puzzles or basically any of Gelatinbrain's puzzles. I'll have to add this task to my list of twisty things I'm already behind on :(

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Gus and Brandon, thanks for the hints!

I have now stickered my puzzle and before my wife will hide it at a safe place until my birthday, I took some pictures.
Image
I have used a scheme where one hemisphere has warm colours (gold in the centre) and the other cooler colours (silver in the centre). Actually, when I took the photos, it was not easy to get a decent colour resemblance having 10 faces on one view.
We have cloudy weather and I do not own photo lamps (something I should get).
Anyway, I did my best and maybe mid June the sun is shining :)

My scheme includes some logic (at least logical to the inventor :lol: ), which colours on the "warm" hemisphere are opposite to those on the cool hemisphere.

This picture explains things precisely using the notation from the solving thread:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:26 am 
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I got mine saturday, from Hendrik's puzzle shop in Hamburg - apparently mine was the last one he had!

It came already stickered, and because of this the beautiful box was already opened, I am now trying to dissolve the glue by basically bathing the box in alcohol.

What can I say? It is a beautiful puzzle. It turned stiff OOB but I am lubricating it and turning all faces hundreds of times and it is already much better. It does not lock. Its jumbling almost scares me :-) A piece of art, in my opinion. Kudos, Eitan! And thanks, mf8, for mass manufacturing it!

I will try to solve it relatively soon - I do not have experience with the Bauhinia but I'll try anyway. But not immediately, as other puzzles require my attention first: I am still learning to solve the mixup plus and the FTO , which I already solved a few times, but not yet written down a comprehensive strategy. I do not lookup other people's solutions before I solve on my own - i started about 20 months ago to collect and solve puzzles after a 25+ years hiatus and have about 90 of them, so I am a bit behind wrt a lot of people here… Hopefully I will be able to join the discussion when Konrad gets his hands on the puzzle again - in about 6 weeks, right?

Roberto

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:59 am 
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mocenigo wrote:
I got mine saturday, from Hendrik's puzzle shop in Hamburg - apparently mine was the last one he had!

It came already stickered, and because of this the beautiful box was already opened, I am now trying to dissolve the glue by basically bathing the box in alcohol.
...
Hello Roberto,
it is not so bad, if you use a hair dryer heating the glue under the tape and then use one of the Cubesmith plastic razor blades to remove the tape.
I needed a tiny bit of alcohol only to get rid of the remaining glue.

It is a different question, though, if I want to keep the box. It holds the puzzle safe, but is not so great for display purposes. My puzzle will just get a nice place in one of my cabinets.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:26 am 
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Gus wrote:
I look forward to your design - will it be able to do DDH as well?
What does DDH mean?

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:34 am 
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Konrad wrote:
Hello Roberto,
it is not so bad, if you use a hair dryer heating the glue under the tape and then use one of the Cubesmith plastic razor blades to remove the tape.
I needed a tiny bit of alcohol only to get rid of the remaining glue.

Dunno, that's what i tried, hair drier and a sticker removal plastic razor blade: a lot of glue still remained.

Quote:
It is a different question, though, if I want to keep the box. It holds the puzzle safe, but is not so great for display purposes. My puzzle will just get a nice place in one of my cabinets.

Yeah, i am a little undecided about the box. I can use the two halves to hold Eitan's Star and a Gigaminx, if and when Oskar's Icosaix actually gets produced AND my wife allows me to purchase it (hehe) then also the Master Kilominx could find a place. But then? Nothing similar is currently available for the Petaminx, so it would look a bit incomplete. Oh, well, first world pains! ;-)

Roberto

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:19 pm 
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pirsquared wrote:
Gus wrote:
I look forward to your design - will it be able to do DDH as well?
What does DDH mean?

I'm pretty sure he meant dodecahedrons.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Eitan, you should totally make a DEFTIcube!

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:20 pm 
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rubikcollector123 wrote:
Eitan, you should totally make a DEFTIcube!

In fact, he originally wanted to make the Radio cube 3 a DEFTI cube, but decided for shallower cuts of the radiolarian 3 for a nicer look.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Does anyone know any US shops that carry this or will be carrying thing? I've ordered from other countries before but it was a terrible experience (multiple tampered packages and sitting in customs for almost 2 months)


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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:04 pm 
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S3rzz wrote:
Does anyone know any US shops that carry this or will be carrying thing? I've ordered from other countries before but it was a terrible experience (multiple tampered packages and sitting in customs for almost 2 months)
I ordered from HK Now Store. It took forever. The box was crushed and shredded and had been opened. The case the puzzle is in is absolutely invincible though. Shipping will take a long time but you'll get a functioning puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:30 pm 
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ETA: my video that shows and compares Olivér's stickers to the MF8 set and gives a better view of my colour scheme.

Now that my Eitan's Star is stickered and I have a bit more free time, I can work on my solution for this marvellous puzzle.

My colour scheme was inspired by Konrad's "warm/cool" colour scheme and his beautiful photography. I used white for the centre of the "cool" side and yellow for the centre of the "warm" side. My pictures only give a hint of the beauty of Olivér's stickers and Eitan's puzzle design:
Attachment:
Eitan's_Star_Front_Back_Comp2_sm.png
Eitan's_Star_Front_Back_Comp2_sm.png [ 244.86 KiB | Viewed 2266 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:22 am 
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Here's a rough version of the kind of stand I'm talking about. The puzzle would be positioned with one vertex facing directly downward. Pretty much like the little black plastic stands that come with some 3x3 cubes.

I have a few ideas of how to make it work with both icosahedral and dodecahedral puzzles (e.g., using only 3 contact points with small spheres on the tips, so that any puzzle can fit), but further suggestions would be appreciated.

-Eitan


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Eitan's Star Stand.jpg
Eitan's Star Stand.jpg [ 39.23 KiB | Viewed 2128 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:53 am 
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Thought I'd make a little video showing some jumbling on the physical Eitan's Star puzzle. I must be getting old because I don't normally throw this much caution to the wind.

No idea if I've jumbled it "properly", and I'm happy for anyone who watches it to let me know. By the end I was really struggling to find a face or faces to actually turn.

Eitan's Star Jumbling Video

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 Post subject: Re: MF8 & Eitan's Star - Update
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Has anyone noticed that if the tips of this icosahedron are cut away and corners are added to the flat center triangles, the resulting dodecahedron will have the same size as all mf8 dodecahedra? I cannot say that with exact precision, since I just held a ruler to the puzzle.

I don't know if mf8 is interested in the possibility of also selling a shape transformation. But if they didn't intend, maybe someone is up for the challenge? I am only a little concerned about the edgepieces but I think all of the tip can be sanded down without interfering with the mechanism.

So... Tonyyyy? :mrgreen:

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