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 Post subject: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:13 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
I read in WCA Regulations 2013 in paragraph 12 Notation
Quote:
12a) Notation for Rubik's Cube and similar puzzles:
12a1) Face Moves:
12a1a) Clockwise, 90 degrees: F (front face), B (back face), R (right face), L (left face), U (upper face), D (bottom face).
12a1b) Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: F', B', R', L', U', D'.
12a1c) 180 degrees: F2, B2, R2, L2, U2, D2.
12a2) Multiple Outer Slice Moves (outer slice plus adjacent inner slices; n is defined as total number of slices to move; n may be omitted for two slices):
12a2a) Clockwise, 90 degrees: nFw, nBw, nRw, nLw, nUw, nDw.
12a2b) Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: nFw', nBw', nRw', nLw', nUw', nDw'.
12a2c) 180 degrees: nFw2, nBw2, nRw2, nLw2, nUw2, nDw2.
Normal slice moves are no longer there
An earlier WCA notation from 2010 said
Quote:
12a)

Notation for Rubik's Cube and similar puzzles:
Face Moves:
•12a1) Clockwise, 90 degrees: F (front face), B (back face), R (right face), L (left face), U (upper face), D (bottom face).
•12a2) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: F', B', R', L', U', D' (see 12a1).
•12a3) Clockwise, 180 degrees: F2, B2, R2, L2, U2, D2 (see 12a1).
•12a4) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: F2', B2', R2', L2', U2', D2' (see 12a1).
Double Outer Slice Moves (outer slice plus adjacent inner slice):
•12a5) Clockwise, 90 degrees: Fw, Bw, Rw, Lw, Uw, Dw. (see 12a1).
•12a6) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: Fw', Bw', Rw', Lw', Uw', Dw' (see 12a5).
•12a7) Clockwise, 180 degrees: Fw2, Bw2, Rw2, Lw2, Uw2, Dw2 (see 12a5).
•12a8) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: Fw2', Bw2', Rw2', Lw2', Uw2', Dw2' (see 12a5).
Inner Slice Moves (adjacent slice of outer slice only):
•12a9) Clockwise, 90 degrees: f, b, r, l, u, d. (see 12a1).
•12a10) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: f', b', r', l', u', d' (see 12a9).
•12a11) Clockwise, 180 degrees: f2, b2, r2, l2, u2, d2 (see 12a9).
•12a12) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: f2', b2', r2', l2', u2', d2' (see 12a9).
Middle Slice Moves (middle slice of puzzles with odd number of slices, middle two slices of puzzles with even number of slices):
•12a13) Clockwise, 90 degrees: M (same direction as L), S (same direction as F), E (same direction as D). (see 12a1).
•12a14) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: M', S', E' (see 12a13).
•12a15) Clockwise, 180 degrees: M2, S2, E2 (see 12a13).
•12a16) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: M2', S2', E2' (see 12a13).
Isn't this very strange?

Inner slice moves (f,b,r,l,u,d; M, S, E) are no longer defined in the Regulations 2013, but we have still "Multiple Outer Slice Moves"?

I find this utterly strange and disappointing.
How should we write slice moves using WCA notation?

I didn't read anywhere that the regulations from 2010 are still valid and 2013 is just an addition.
And the numbering 12a1 in 2013 and 12a1 in 2010 does contradict this assumption, too.

Has anybody here contact to WCA?

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:35 am

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:56 am
Location: The Netherlands

Interesting.. I have taken your post and linked to it from here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showt ... tions-2013

Maybe an answer will appear there as well.

Quite the change alright. I already have trouble reading the bigger cubes notation, but now they up and change it again..

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:22 am

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:22 am
Since I have been to official competitions I have never seen slice moves scrambles for any big cube. Why would you use them anyway as they are uncomfortable to do

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:13 am

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Chichester, England
I don't see there being any major difference to be honest. For as long as I have been competitive cubing, slice moves have been regarded as two moves anyway. The 'Multiple Outer Slice Moves' is pretty badly worded, but from what I gather, is the exact same notation used before.

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:40 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Luke wrote:
I don't see there being any major difference to be honest. For as long as I have been competitive cubing, slice moves have been regarded as two moves anyway. The 'Multiple Outer Slice Moves' is pretty badly worded, but from what I gather, is the exact same notation used before.
You have probably not recognized that a lot of paragraphs from regulations 2010 are no longer there in 2013
Quote:
•12a9) Clockwise, 90 degrees: f, b, r, l, u, d. (see 12a1).
•12a10) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: f', b', r', l', u', d' (see 12a9).
•12a11) Clockwise, 180 degrees: f2, b2, r2, l2, u2, d2 (see 12a9).
•12a12) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: f2', b2', r2', l2', u2', d2' (see 12a9).
Middle Slice Moves (middle slice of puzzles with odd number of slices, middle two slices of puzzles with even number of slices):
•12a13) Clockwise, 90 degrees: M (same direction as L), S (same direction as F), E (same direction as D). (see 12a1).
•12a14) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: M', S', E' (see 12a13).
•12a15) Clockwise, 180 degrees: M2, S2, E2 (see 12a13).
•12a16) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: M2', S2', E2' (see 12a13).
All of this has been deleted!!!

I know that you do not like lower case names for slices , but I have used them for more than 30 years. (I actually invented them in parallel to others, based on the Singmaster notation back in 1982, when I solved the 4x4x4 the first time)

I find a slice notation very convenient, because a notation without them seems to become cumbersome.
A slice turn M (slice below L turned clockwise into the same direction as L) would become
L' R x' or Rw' R.
Probably, you wrote Rw' R already, so you do not miss anything?
I know that my hands do two turns for a slice moves, but my brain thinks of it as one

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:56 am

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Chichester, England
In terms of how I cube at home, yes, I do use slice moves. However, in regards to competitions, slice moves have never technically been used. In fewest moves events, slice moves count as two moves each. For higher order cubes, the Nw notation has always been used and so I see little need to use them. As the WCA notation is only a standard at competitions, and not at home, I don't see this being much of a problem. Use whatever notation you want to at home.

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3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:34 am

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
A common notation is an important way for puzzle enthusiasts to communicate solutions and methods. The WCA notation has a powerful influence on the notation we use. I can't imagine anyone competitive in the 5x5 flipping two wing edges on UF using anything other than slice moves:

(r2 2B2) (U2 l) (U2 r') (U2 r) (U2 2F2) (r 2F2 l') (2B2 r2)
ETA: The above has some errors, here is the corrected version:
(r2 B2) (U2 l) (U2 r') (U2 r) (U2 F2) (r F2 l') (B2 r2)

Are they going to do Rw2 R2' instead of r2 and Lw L' instead of l?

To see how silly this omission is trying writing the preceding algorithm for the inner-most wing edges on the 7x7 cube! A slice notation that takes an optional slice prefix should be part of the WCA notation.

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Last edited by Pete the Geek on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:57 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Pete the Geek wrote:
A common notation is an important way for puzzle enthusiasts to communicate solutions and methods. The WCA notation has a powerful influence on the notation we use. ....
Exactly so!
Pete, 2B2 is not defined in WCA 2010.
Do you mean SiGN in this case?
In SiGN 2B2 on a 4x4x4 would be the same as b2 in WCA 2010 and (Bw2 B2) in WCA 2013.
On the other hand r2 in SiGN would be Rw2 in WCA 2013.

So far, I had always argued for WCA because I viewed it as the most widely accepted standard.
Maybe, due to the lack of an easier slice notation SiGN is now the better choice?

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:05 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
Pete, 2B2 is not defined in WCA 2010.
Do you mean SiGN in this case?
I made an error in adapting an algorithm I had written in my 3x5x7 notes. Here is what I should have written for the 5x5 cube:

(r2 B2) (U2 l) (U2 r') (U2 r) (U2 F2) (r F2 l') (B2 r2)

For the record, here is a copy-and-paste from my 3x5x7 cuboid notes on how to flip two inner-wing edges on either the 5-wide (long edges) or seven-wide (short edges) faces:
Long edges: (r2 3B2) (U2 l) (U2 r') (U2 r) (U2 3F2) (r 3F2 l') (3B2 r2)
Short edges: (r2 2B2) (U2 l) (U2 r') (U2 r) (U2 2F2) (r 2F2 l') (2B2 r2)

It seems that the "3B2", etc., wasn't defined in the WCA-2010 regulations, but they are in WCA-2013 (as "3Bw2", etc.). I also didn't specify which "r" and "l' to use and I don't think WCA-2010 provides for it. In this particular case, there is a diagram alongside the algorithms, but for a truly universal notation, I should be able to put a slice number in front of slice turns other than the outer wings.

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:48 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Pete the Geek wrote:
...It seems that the "3B2", etc., wasn't defined in the WCA-2010 regulations, but they are in WCA-2013 (as "3Bw2", etc.).
"3B2" is neither in 2010 nor in 2013. 3Bw2 is in 2013, not in 2010.
Pete the Geek wrote:
I also didn't specify which "r" and "l' to use and I don't think WCA-2010 provides for it.
"r" and "l" in 2010 are just one inner layer below R or L respectively. Instead adding something like 3R - as in SiGN meaning the third layer below R; 2R being a synonym for r - WCA 2013 got rid of all single slice turns: r,l etc M, E, S.
In the TP notation for Face Turning Dodecahedra (e.g. Petaminx) we have added a "#" for better clarity e.g. #3U = layer number 3.
Instead of 3Uw in WCA 2010, we had defined 3*U ("3 times U layers" = (U,u,#3U) = (U,#2U,#3U) )

(You can either download the pdf file from the last post or look at acomprehensive post from December 16th, 2011)
Pete the Geek wrote:
In this particular case, there is a diagram alongside the algorithms, but for a truly universal notation, I should be able to put a slice number in front of slice turns other than the outer wings.
I agree. SiGN is certainly more general in some sense. I had hoped that WCA would improve the notation including single slice turns for larger cubes. Instead they have removed everything

EDIT: I had a look at http://www.bigcubes.com and found that they are using the old (2010) WCA notation (e.g. "r" for the layer below R).
Another look at the http://www.v-cubes.com showed that they use on their solution pages the "SSE" notation (at least partially) from Werner Randelshofer.Superset ENG 7x7x7.

On a side-note: On the V-Cubes page the WCA notation is quoted incorrectly. They write 3F instead of 3Fw. (Maybe, this was something intermediate?)

Our Pattern friends seem to use SSE mostly.
So, you can choose between
- old WCA (2010)
- current WCA (2013)
- SiGN
- SSE
As an additional challenge, don't tell your friends what you are using today, when showing a new move sequence
Or create your private soup "at home"

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:17 am

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
The interest in this notation discussion seems to be quite limited.
My personal conclusion is that I'll go on using WCA 2010 & WCA 2013 merged together, plus an add on for single inner slice moves not adjacent to an outer layer.

That would be (using the numbering inWCA 2013 and merging again WCA 2010
WCA 2010 & WCA 2013 wrote:
12a) Notation for Rubik's Cube and similar puzzles:
12a1) Face Moves:
12a1a) Clockwise, 90 degrees: F (front face), B (back face), R (right face), L (left face), U (upper face), D (bottom face).
12a1b) Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: F', B', R', L', U', D'.
12a1c) 180 degrees: F2, B2, R2, L2, U2, D2.

12a2) Multiple Outer Slice Moves (outer slice plus adjacent inner slices; n is defined as total number of slices to move; n may be omitted for two slices):
12a2a) Clockwise, 90 degrees: nFw, nBw, nRw, nLw, nUw, nDw.
12a2b) Anti-clockwise, 90 degrees: nFw', nBw', nRw', nLw', nUw', nDw'.
12a2c) 180 degrees: nFw2, nBw2, nRw2, nLw2, nUw2, nDw2.

12a3) Single Inner Slice moves (as in WCA 2010)

12a3a) Inner Slice Moves (adjacent slice of outer slice only):
12a3a1) Clockwise, 90 degrees: f, b, r, l, u, d. (see 12a1a).
12a3a2) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: f', b', r', l', u', d' (see 12a3a1).
12a3a3) Clockwise, 180 degrees: f2, b2, r2, l2, u2, d2 (see 12a3a1).
12a3a4) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: f2', b2', r2', l2', u2', d2' (see 12a3a1).

12a3b) Middle Slice Moves (middle slice of puzzles with odd number of slices, middle two slices of puzzles with even number of slices):
12a3b1) Clockwise, 90 degrees: M (same direction as L), S (same direction as F), E (same direction as D). (see 12a1a).
12a3b2) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: M', S', E' (see 12a3b1).
12a3b3) Clockwise, 180 degrees: M2, S2, E2 (see 12a3b1).
12a3b4) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: M2', S2', E2' (see 12a3b1).
12a3b4) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: M2', S2', E2' (see 12a3b1).
And this the addon I will use
Quote:
12a3c) Further Inner Slice moves on cubes bigger than 5x5x5
12a3a1) Clockwise, 90 degrees: nF, nB, nR, nL, nU, nD.
n is defined as the number of the slice counting from the respective face name; e.g. 2F is a synonym of f and 3F is the next single inner layer(see 12a1a).
12a3a2) Counter clockwise, 90 degrees: nF', nB', nR', nL', nU', nD' (see 12a3a2 for the definition of n)).
12a3a3) Clockwise, 180 degrees: nF2, nB2, nR2, nL2, nU2, nD2 (see 12a3a1).
12a3a4) Counter clockwise, 180 degrees: nF2', nB2', nR2', nL2', nU2', nD2' (see 12a3a1).
I would allow several synonyms:
"u" in WCA 2010 = "2U" = "#2U" (as in TP Dodecahedra Face Turning Dodecahedra notation)
"Uw" in WCA 2010 = "2Uw" in WCA 2013
"nUw" in WCA 2013 = "n*U" (like in the TP Dodecahedra notation)

Everybody who wants to share some move sequence in the Solving Forum should either include a precise definition of his/her notation or should link to such definition.

The alternatives SiGN and SSE seem less attractive to me due to the following reasons:
- SiGN uses lower case letters (like "u") in a different meaning than I'm used to since 1982 ("u" in SiGN = "Uw" in WCA 2010 = "2Uw" in WCA 2013; I have studied once a move sequence inclusing turns like "u" and could not make sense of it. There was no hint to SiGN and I had never heared of it before )
- SSE (Superset ENG): While this a very comprehensive notation it seems a bit overloaded and it breaks with WCA history pretty much. Not everything is clear to me. E.g. I fail to understand why they named "Verge Twists" when they describe Inner Layer twists and the "verge" is not turned at all. Anyway, the "Patterns" topic will go on using it and there is no problem.

@Pete: Thanks for your comments. It is nice to get the confirmation that at least somebody is thinking along the same lines .
When showing Cuboid sequences, I feel that it is important to explain the orientation of the cuboid, e.g. for the 3x4x5: U= 3x5; F = 4x5;
I'm still not sure if I understand the result of your sequence Long edges: (r2 3B2) (U2 l) (U2 r') (U2 r) (U2 3F2) (r 3F2 l') (3B2 r2) correctly.
I translate it to the notation above: (r2 3Bw2) (U2 l) (U2 r') (U2 r) (U2 3Fw2) (r 3Fw2 l') (3Bw2 r2) and this to Gelatinbrain: R2&2,B2&7,U2,L&2,U2,R'&2,U2,R&2,U2,F2&7,R&2,F2&7,L'&2,B2&7,R2&2
I perform this on a 7x7x7 in Gelatinbrain and get:

Now, how does it look on a 3x5x7 and how is the start configuration defined? (e.g. U =5x7; F = 3x7 ?)

I do not mean to discuss this sequence specifically here, I view it just as an example, what has to be explained about cuboids, additionally.

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:52 pm

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:04 am
Location: Switzerland
The SSE notation exists for more then 30 years. It was introduced in 1981 by German mathematician Christoph Bandelow. He also was the author of several popular cube books like:

«Einführung in die Cubologie», Vieweg 1981; or its English translation:
«Inside Rubik's Cube and Beyond», Birkhäuser 1982

The notation was later expanded for higher order cubes.

It uses the same basics like WCA, SiGN or many other notations:

Clockwise face twists in 90° direction are described as:
F (front face), B (back face), R (right face), L (left face), U (upper face), D (down or bottom face)

Anti-clockwise, 90° twists are described as:
F', B', R', L', U', D'

180° twists are described as:
F2, B2, R2, L2, U2, D2

As soon as other parts then the outer faces are moved, a prefix (a capital letter) is added.
For example, if you like to move the entire cube instead of just the right face R, the prefix C is added: CR; or if you like to move the middle layer, the prefix M is added: MR; and so on.

The advantage is that you just have to know that all cube parts are moved exactly in the same direction as you would move the corresponding outer face. You don't have to know, that x would rotated the entire cube like the right face. And you also don't have to learn that M' moves the middle layer between the R and L face in the same direction as the right face.

So in SSE notation, there is only one main construct to describe all kinds of twists:
– Face moves (F, B, R, L, U, D) with or without prefix

WCA notation on the other hand uses a range of different constructs:
– Face moves (F, B, R, L, U, D)
– Cube rotations (x, y, z)
– Mid-layer twists (M, S, E)
– Adjacent slice moves (f, b, r, l, u, d)
– Small letters written after the face moves, but before the move direction are used to describe e.g. an «Outer Slice Plus Adjacent Inner Slice» move like Rw'

While in SSE notation capital letters are used to describe moves, small letters are reserved to denote permutations. For example, the face move R creates the following permutation:
(ubr,bdr,dfr,fur)
(ur,br,dr,fr)
(+r)

Another advantage is that blanks must not seperate tolkens to avoid mis-interpretations of algorithms. In SiGN notation for example it is curcial to seperate the tolkens with blanks, because otherwise the described moves can become a different meaning. For example, R2U could either be interpreted as R 2U, but R2 U would be possible as well.

Since in SSE the move direction is always at the end of the tolken, mis-interpretations of algorithms with missing blanks are not possible.

SSE also supports a wide range of high-level constructs such as grouping, repetition, inversion, reflection, conjugation, commutation, rotation, ...

So, for me SSE is a very powerful and comprehensive alternative to the WCA notation.

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 Post subject: Re: Slice moves in WCA notation 2013Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:48 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm
Location: Sioux Lookout, Canada
The interest in this notation discussion seems to be quite limited.
My personal conclusion is that I'll go on using WCA 2010 & WCA 2013 merged together, plus an add on for single inner slice moves not adjacent to an outer layer.
I'm keenly interested in this notation and I am very happy to see that you skillfully addressed the omissions in the WCA notations and I will work to correct/revise the notation in my own notes.

One of the reasons that my early notes are such a mix of SiGN, WCA and Leibniz notation (OK, that last one was a joke) is that I had no idea that there were different notations or that some websites use non-standard notations. Does it make sense to define and use a short, simple prefix or tag to indicate the notation we are using such as:
#SiGN
#WCA2013
#TP2013 <- which is WCA2013 plus Konrad's extensions

Another request I have for writing flexible algorithms also applies to cuboids. Sometimes I want to say "the slice that you are working on" in an algorithm. For example, the inner-wing edges on a 3x5x7 cuboid will be different depending on which face they are on. I could write an algorithm that applies to any face if I have a notation that lets me say - for example - that *r is the slice that is next to the middle edge.

As for specifying the face, in my Radiolarian 3 notes I originally defined a prefix for algorithms to indicate how the front middle face of the icosahedral puzzle should look - "A" for a triangle with the base down and "V" for a triangle with the base on top. Eventually I decided that it was less confusing to insist that the "front" is always "V". I still haven't resolved the issue with the Bauhinia.

As puzzles get more complex it makes perfect sense that the language we use to describe the solutions keeps up.

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