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 Post subject: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:14 am 
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clauswe wrote:
In the German TV show Deutschlands Superhirn a young boy stood 10 meters in front of two square walls.

Every wall was built out of 49 x 49 Rubik cubes. In total 4802 *9 cubies. He has to find the one and only different sticker in the right wall.
Sounds more like a test for Savant syndrome then a game show. Did the boy win? If so how long did it take him? I can't imagine anyone that wasn't a savant being able to do that in a reasonable time.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Carl, this was a normal boy.

He has to do three different tasks. On of them he lost. Therefore he couldn't win the show. In the two others he need once 2 minutes. In the other case only some seconds (half a minute).


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:50 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Sounds more like a test for Savant syndrome then a game show. Did the boy win? If so how long did it take him? I can't imagine anyone that wasn't a savant being able to do that in a reasonable time.

Carl


He used stereoscopy to blend both walls into one and was able to see the modified cube twice which was rather amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Georges wrote:
He used stereoscopy to blend both walls into one and was able to see the modified cube twice which was rather amazing.
Interesting... I hadn't thought of that. Yes you could just cross your eyes such that you were seeing both walls over each other. Still I think it would be hard to spot just the single sticker that was a different color between the 2 eyes. I'm almost tempted to try and make a jpg of a grid of 147x147 squares picking 1 of the 6 Rubik colors for each square at random. Then make a second jpg which just changes a single square. Put both images on the screen side-by-side, cross my eyes, and see what jumps out at me. Anyone know of a simple way to make such an image? I know a few ways to do it but it's more work than I'm wanting to due to satisfy my curiosity at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:00 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Anyone know of a simple way to make such an image? I know a few ways to do it but it's more work than I'm wanting to due to satisfy my curiosity at the moment.
I would use Excel: First select all cells in a worksheet and contract the column width to make a grid of square cells. Then insert a random number generator function in one cell, and use conditional formatting to convert the number into a colour. Then copy and paste this cell (formula and colour) over an entire grid to create a mosaic of random colours. Then create a second grid which copies the first, except for one cell defined by another random formula.

I could do all this in about 2 min, creating a new pair of grids of any size that differ by only one random cell. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:51 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
I would use Excel
Great advice!!! That worked like a charm. Thanks. And yes, the one sticker which has been changed does sort of jump out at you. However it does take a fair deal of effort to get your eyes to cross just right to see it.

Attachment:
Savant.png
Savant.png [ 334.91 KiB | Viewed 4462 times ]


Can you spot the sticker which has changed?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:59 pm 
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Yes!


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:08 pm 
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I bet this is really interesting, but I can't cross my eyes. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Unfortunately I'm virtually blind in one eye so can't use stereovision. :(

However, I did manage to do it by photographically memorizing one grid then looking at the second and comparing it with my memory of the first. :)

Not really. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Sometimes I love crossing my eyes...

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles in public
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:03 pm 
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NXTgen wrote:
Sometimes I love crossing my eyes...

That would explain the blue face in your avatar! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:28 am 
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Luckily I can do stereograms quite easily (both cross eyes and parallel) but I couldn't really spot the difference. Even when I know where it is I still find it difficult to spot.

I remember when I first saw a random dot stereogram as an advert/competition in an electronics magazine around 1989 and was amazed when the image (just M700) popped up out of the page. Only about 1 in 5 people in my office could see it. When I found out how they worked, I wrote a program on my BBC micro to make the image "GUS RULES" and this really impressed my co-workers (well, those who could see anything).
Attachment:
File comment: SG1
SG1.png
SG1.png [ 1.73 MiB | Viewed 4349 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: SG2
SG2.png
SG2.png [ 1.96 MiB | Viewed 4349 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:52 am 
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Those are brilliant!!! Especially the first one, very clear and impressive!

:D


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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:05 am 
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I have a lazy eye. I suspect this is why I've never been able to do these "Magic Eye" things. Luckily I found a program online that reveals the hidden image for you!

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:23 am 
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I thought you did the opposite to crossing your eyes to see these images. ie focussing past them.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:41 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
I thought you did the opposite to crossing your eyes to see these images. ie focussing past them.
There are two types - divergent where you gaze into the distance and the 3D appears to sink into the image, and convergent when the 3D appears to float above the page. The ones I posted were both divergent.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:55 am 
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Gus wrote:
Luckily I can do stereograms quite easily (both cross eyes and parallel)
Me too thought I think I've always found the parallel versions a bit easier. Its easier for me to look "through" the image until the 3D image jumps out at me.
Gus wrote:
but I couldn't really spot the difference. Even when I know where it is I still find it difficult to spot.
Granted I made this one so I knew were to look. If someone else wants to make another I'd be happy to see if I could spot it easily. In this case its not so much a stereogram as the odd sticker doesn't jump out in 3D... its a sticker which looks both orange and green at the same time. With my eyes crossed my conscious can't tell which eye is seeing which color but its rather clear something if very odd with that sticker as compared to the others. I just have to cross my eyes... wait for the proper overlapping image to lock on in my brain and then I can scan this new image for something that looks odd... and a sticker which is both green and orange at the same time does register as odd once you see it.
Gus wrote:
I remember when I first saw a random dot stereogram as an advert/competition in an electronics magazine around 1989 and was amazed when the image (just M700) popped up out of the page. Only about 1 in 5 people in my office could see it. When I found out how they worked, I wrote a program on my BBC micro to make the image "GUS RULES" and this really impressed my co-workers (well, those who could see anything).
I think I was writing my first programs to display 3D images back in the mid 80's using 2 separate images and the "parallel" method back on an Apple IIe. Basically I was just drawing circles inside two separate squares but once you looked through the screen the circles would appear to be spheres and some were closer to you then others. I was trying to make images of things like a water molecule where the size of the spheres were proportional to the size of the atoms and the image inside each square was an image of the same molecule from two slightly different angles. The nice thing about doing this on a computer it was even possible to animate the 3D images and to have the molecule rotating on a given axis while it was viewed. This was even before I ever saw my first random dot stereogram. Once those came out I LOVED them. I've ALWAYS been fascinated by how a 2D image can be made to jump out in 3D at you.
kastellorizo wrote:
Those are brilliant!!! Especially the first one, very clear and impressive!
Agreed... these are both great. Personally my favorite is the second.

Carl

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Last edited by wwwmwww on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Gus wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
I thought you did the opposite to crossing your eyes to see these images. ie focussing past them.
There are two types - divergent where you gaze into the distance and the 3D appears to sink into the image, and convergent when the 3D appears to float above the page. The ones I posted were both divergent.
All the ones where the viewer is presented with a single large image that I've seen are "divergent". When you have two separate images and the aim is to overlap these two in your brain then they can be either "divergent" or "convergent". If the distance between the center of the two images is greater then the separation of your eyes then they must be "convergent", that is unless you can look off in two separate directions at once. If the distance between the images is smaller then the separation of your eyes it could be either type and usually you'll see something in 3D either way. However if viewed with the wrong technique the image will appear "odd". As I recall it will have sort of an inside out feel to it. For example if you are looking at a cube you may think you are looking through the cube at the back walls of that cube. I prefer to go with the "divergent" method as they are a bit easier for me to see... but the "convergent" method does allow one to use much larger images (say a square grid of 49x49 Rubik's cubes) and as you are no longer limited by the separation of the human eyes you can in principle make higher resolution 3D images.

Carl

P.S. Here are some images that were posted back in 2010.

Divergent
Attachment:
Puzzle3D_a.png
Puzzle3D_a.png [ 111.16 KiB | Viewed 4199 times ]


Convergent
Attachment:
Puzzle3D_b.png
Puzzle3D_b.png [ 114.42 KiB | Viewed 4199 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:30 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Gus wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
I thought you did the opposite to crossing your eyes to see these images. ie focussing past them.
There are two types - divergent where you gaze into the distance and the 3D appears to sink into the image, and convergent when the 3D appears to float above the page. The ones I posted were both divergent.
All the ones where the viewer is presented with a single large image that I've seen are "divergent".
The most popular ones use single divergent images, but I have a book using single images in which you must cross your eyes to see the 3D image jump out of the page. I think this effect is better than the divergent images which seem to sink into the page, but I find it a little harder to do. I think I still have this book somewhere ...

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Gus wrote:
The most popular ones use single divergent images, but I have a book using single images in which you must cross your eyes to see the 3D image jump out of the page. I think this effect is better than the divergent images which seem to sink into the page, but I find it a little harder to do. I think I still have this book somewhere ...
Interesting.... if you find that book I'd be interested in seeing the particulars. I might try to find myself a copy.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:04 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Interesting.... if you find that book I'd be interested in seeing the particulars. I might try to find myself a copy.
I'll try to find it - I think it's somewhere in the loft.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:07 am 
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I can cross my eyes and merge the two grids. I just can't spot the difference even when I know where to look.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Ender Delphiki wrote:
I can cross my eyes and merge the two grids. I just can't spot the difference even when I know where to look.
May I ask what you do see when you know where to look? Do you see a green or an orange sticker there? If you just see one of these colors my best guess is you have a dominant eye (or better vision in one eye or the other) and your brain is letting the image from the dominant eye over write the image from the other. When I focus on that sticker its hard to describe what I see. Its almost like sometimes its all orange, sometimes is all green, sometimes its half orange and half green sort of split in half diagonally across the sticker, and once I think I was sort of seeing two stickers next to each other in a location where only sticker should fit. Its clear the brain is trying to reconcile the image its getting from both eyes as they contradict each other at that sticker location... and if the brain can more easily through out one of the 2 images in favor of the other I could easily see it never registering on a conscious level.

Here try this... once you have merged the two images in your head move your hand back and forth in front of your face at about the mid way point between your eyes and the screen. As your hand blocks the image of that sticker from one eye and not the other and vice versa you should see that sticker changing colors. Not sure if that will help or not.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:21 pm 
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I can't do it either. I mean I can cross my eyes but that automatically leads to a complete bluring of the images. How is it possible to cross your eyes so far, that the images merge but at the same time focussing on the correct distance? You can only do one can't you? As I try to focus the more I do, the more the images spread apart again. Do I have to go closer or further away from the screen?
I always thought I was able to cross my eyes. But aparantly there is a difference between crossing and crossing which is functionality. ??

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Crossing my eyes definitely distorts the shape of my eyes and makes in harder for me to focus. Diverging is much more comfortable for me. When I cross everything goes blurry and I have to spend several seconds adjusting my focus. When diverging I can maintain focus the whole time.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:55 pm 
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I've never been able to diverge my eyes. I wouldn't know what muscles to pull and can't imagine what the sensation would feel like.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereoscopic cube grids
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Actually you "diverge" your eyes all the time, every time you look into the distance (infinity). The trick is to look into the distance, but at the same time focus close up. That is the secret to viewing these images.

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