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 Post subject: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:49 am 
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No.12th of 2012 3D Printing: void master Pentultimate

Size: 9cm
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Turning: better than expected
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With other puzzle
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With Bauhinia
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A similar structure puzzle: void Pentultimate
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Last edited by MF8 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Oh my god ! And I have just bought the mini master pentultimate of Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:04 pm 
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I know it'll be boring to say that but, Mass production please!!! :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:15 pm 
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MF8 wrote:
No.12th of 2012 3D Printing: void master Pentultimate
WOW!!! Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first void puzzle where turning a face also moves the neighboring void centers... isn't it? GREAT JOB either way. It looks beautiful. Now I want to stick a void Megaminx inside. Which brings up a side question... has anyone yet made a void Megaminx which copies the mech of the Void Cube? I've never liked the current Void Megaminx as the holes don't rotate with the faces.
MF8 wrote:
A similar structure puzzle: void Pentultimate
Similar... but not totally void. I still see some of the face centers remaining in the surface. And yes, I do realize removing that would be impossible.

Carl

P.S. Just remembered the Void Starball. It too moves neighboring void centers.

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Last edited by wwwmwww on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Amazing puzzle!

If this goes to massproduction, will we see it before a regular Master Pentultimate?

wwwmwww wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first void puzzle where turning a face also moves the neighboring void centers... isn't it?

Not really, I think the void starball by Cubedude76 also has void floating centers.

Edit: Just saw your edit about the void starball.

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:27 pm 
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Are these puzzles void because it is easier for you to make void versions than normal ones, or did you just want a bigger challenge?
I would totally cap these pentultimates before doing anything else with them. Am I not such a philistine.

(The last word I looked up in an online dictionary, so excuse it if it's not used.)

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Void mechanisms of this sort are usually very sensitive to alignment and can't cut corners at all. I think this would be quite frustrating on the long solves these puzzles require.

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:34 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
Void mechanisms of this sort are usually very sensitive to alignment and can't cut corners at all. I think this would be quite frustrating on the long solves these puzzles require.

In light of which I'm fairly curious as to why they chose to make a void version. Is it just that void is all the rage at present?

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:46 pm 
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rline wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
Void mechanisms of this sort are usually very sensitive to alignment and can't cut corners at all. I think this would be quite frustrating on the long solves these puzzles require.

In light of which I'm fairly curious as to why they chose to make a void version. Is it just that void is all the rage at present?

If I had to guess, I'd say that a shells mechanism build-up either has too many moving parts and doesn't turn well, or is too expensive to create all of the molds for and assemble. The Starminx didn't turn so well and perhaps adding another 20 pieces to it to make the Master Pentultimate wasn't working well at all?

Also, a Pentultimate has a very intricate core that fuses a center with a bunch of other pieces. This core is probably hard to create with injection molding.

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:34 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
If I had to guess, I'd say that a shells mechanism build-up either has too many moving parts and doesn't turn well, or is too expensive to create all of the molds for and assemble. The Starminx didn't turn so well and perhaps adding another 20 pieces to it to make the Master Pentultimate wasn't working well at all?

Also, a Pentultimate has a very intricate core that fuses a center with a bunch of other pieces. This core is probably hard to create with injection molding.
I missed something... why are we talking molds and injection molding? The one pictured here is 3D printed, stated in the first line of the thread. Do we know this is planned for mass production?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:09 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
I missed something... why are we talking molds and injection molding? The one pictured here is 3D printed, stated in the first line of the thread. Do we know this is planned for mass production?
I don't think we know if it is planned for mass production but my assumption is that it's a test of the concept and mechanism.

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:25 pm 
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MF8, that is an interesting-looking puzzle and seems like a very sophisticated design. I hope we get a chance to see it stickered and turning. :mrgreen:

I understand that the Master Pentultimate is a challenging puzzle, so how does the Void Master Pentultimate compare? Twice as hard? Ten times?

I think it would be interesting if a major mass-producer such as MF8 started offering 3D printed puzzles, either through Shapeways or through their own facilities. I think it would make available some puzzles that were already designed but could not be economically mass-produced. Or perhaps they could offer the 3D prints in advance of mass production.

Now I'm trying to think of other MF8 puzzles that can be made into Void variants... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:13 am 
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Pete the Geek wrote:
I understand that the Master Pentultimate is a challenging puzzle, so how does the Void Master Pentultimate compare?


Since the centers can be arranged in any way you want and don't affect the rest of the pieces, a void master pentultimate like the one you see here is just about the center solving part easier than the normal one.
Also since you can't really use the centers as guidance concerning where pieces must go like on a 3x3x3 cube, it's not even practically more difficult.

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 Post subject: Re: Mf8 present, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:28 am 
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Now if you could somehow stick a megaminx in there you'd get a damn cool Multidodecaheron without the wire frames for the outer MP pieces. That'd be badass!

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:31 pm 
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This is great, but I'd love to see normal Pentultimate and Master Pentultimate mass-produced first.
I had a chance to see one at UK cube day.
It was awesome!
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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:50 am 
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Is it just me thinking this, but has mf8 done the void design to avoid any "ownership" issues with the Pentultimate and Master Pentultimate?

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:22 am 
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Master Pentultimate & Void Master Pentultimate

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Want want want! When? How much?

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:01 pm 
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This stickering would make it easier no?
As the innermost ones are static on the mechanism I think.

DHL failed to deliver my Curvy Starminx today, so will not be using them to deliver this beauty!

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:18 pm 
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good puzzle :)

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:23 pm 
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OMG, can't wait!!!


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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:06 pm 
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oxymoronicuber wrote:
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This stickering would make it easier no?
As the innermost ones are static on the mechanism I think.

I don't think this stickering will help. The outer Master Pentultimate puzzle can be solved regardless of the orientation of the core. At best, stickering a fixed core would give you a color scheme reference which isn't very useful since the corners give you the same reference.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:50 pm 
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First question, I would love to see the normal pentultimate being worked on first because I have no idea how to solve it and by extension a harder version.

Second off, I am prepared to spend everything I have to own this when it hits the shelves

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:34 am 
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This is sooooo great!

bmenrigh wrote:
oxymoronicuber wrote:
This stickering would make it easier no?
As the innermost ones are static on the mechanism I think.

I don't think this stickering will help. The outer Master Pentultimate puzzle can be solved regardless of the orientation of the core. At best, stickering a fixed core would give you a color scheme reference which isn't very useful since the corners give you the same reference.


But is that inner core even stationary?
I am having the impression that those inner pieces are just the Pentultimate centers. So stickering those will add centers to the void puzzle.

TheCubingKyle wrote:
First question, I would love to see the normal pentultimate being worked on first because I have no idea how to solve it and by extension a harder version.

Second off, I am prepared to spend everything I have to own this when it hits the shelves


Can you solve a Starminx (face turning)? If so, then you can solve all the "Master pieces" on the Master Pentultimate already.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:30 am 
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alaskajoe wrote:
Can you solve a Starminx (face turning)? If so, then you can solve all the "Master pieces" on the Master Pentultimate already.


I have never owned a Starminx, only dodec I have is a Megaminx (I'm very new to solving and collecting) SO I really don't have the foundational knowledge Puzzles like this require. But that's exactly why I really want one -- the great unknown!

And if my understanding of the Pentultimate's movement type is correct, the deepest layer of inner stickers would synthesize having centers. The higher layer of stickers connects to edges though, so it's privy to breaking apart no?

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:13 pm 
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alaskajoe wrote:
But is that inner core even stationary?
I don't think so. I think this uses the exact same mechanism as Okamoto's Void Cube except as applied to a Dodecahedron.
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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:49 pm 
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it uses the same mechanism as in my Atomicahedron

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:15 am 
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It's awesome that the Master Pentultimate will be accessible to everybody. It is a pity it won't be with the shells mechanism, but it's still great, the Void puzzles work OK after a bit of breaking in and lube. Did you help MF8 with the design Evgeniy or was it independent?

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:29 am 
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Can't wait! I hope they'll sell it at the same price as all other dodecahedrons

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:21 am 
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grigr wrote:
it uses the same mechanism as in my Atomicahedron

....

The first post in this thread is from December 2012. You posted about the Atomicahedron in July 2013.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:50 pm 
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MF8 published puzzle without stickers and video with workable puzzle!
I also have published a picture of an unfinished puzzle from November 2012.
I want to wish good luck to MF8 ...

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:24 pm 
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soon
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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:22 pm 
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grigr wrote:
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Is that a cornerless void master pentultimate? Or is that just what the core looks like

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:13 am 
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Does anyone here know exactly how much better is the shells mechanism? Will it be worth the extra money?

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:06 pm 
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This looks AWESOME!!!
When can we expect them, MF8?
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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:10 pm 
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JubilantJD wrote:
Does anyone here know exactly how much better is the shells mechanism? Will it be worth the extra money?

I don't think any mass produced shells mechanism Master Pentultimate or Pentultimate will ever come out. Do you mean is a Shapeways print worth the money? If your only goal is to be able to solve the puzzle, I suspect these will turn well enough that they'll be solvable which would make the cost of a Shapeways print not worth it.

I'm sure this void rails mechanism will be be stiff and very sensitive to alignment. I don't think there will be any debate that the shells mechanism produces better turning versions of these puzzles. Is the shells mechanism so much better that it's worth 2 to 3 times the cost? Only you can decide that.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:16 pm 
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I can't wait for this to be released! It will make a great new challenge that is semi-affordable at the least (I have no clue as to what the price will be). It will probably be the next thing I purchase after the Crazy 2F/B4 Extended Kit, it just depends on when it gets released.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:57 pm 
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JubilantJD wrote:
Does anyone here know exactly how much better is the shells mechanism? Will it be worth the extra money?


Hey Jubilant-
My Pentultimates use skirting rails which has a void master inside. They are sensitive to alignment, but can turn nicely.
Here's an old video of my spherical pentultimate as reference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gC_0yLxHi0

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:35 am 
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Martin send me MF8 Master Void Pentultimate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0G_YbR2qio

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:26 am 
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Wow. Very cool.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:53 am 
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I got two questions for you. How many do you plan on making for the void master Pentultimate and the(lets just call this holey not quit void)Holey Pentultimate? Do they also come with the caps like above?

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:39 pm 
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That looks like a must have puzzle as far as I am concerned. But, for a mass-produced ABS puzzle it seems to turn like a Shapeways which hasn't been broken in. I hope that this is just a prototype problem, and not a result of the rails mechanism used.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:23 pm 
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It's been a year since this puzzle was announced, and they have a fully functioning prototype that is injection-molded, so we should hopefully be seeing this soon.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:41 am 
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Gus wrote:
That looks like a must have puzzle as far as I am concerned. But, for a mass-produced ABS puzzle it seems to turn like a Shapeways which hasn't been broken in. I hope that this is just a prototype problem, and not a result of the rails mechanism used.


It looks like it turns like a void cube. It sounds similar too. I wouldn't worry. The rails mechanisms are sensitive to alignment however my void cube improved drastically in a couple of weeks and with silicone.

BelcherBoy2000 wrote:
It's been a year since this puzzle was announced, and they have a fully functioning prototype that is injection-molded, so we should hopefully be seeing this soon.


Actually the first time it was announced by mf8 that the pentultimate is planned to be made is about 2 years ago.
Check out the first post from octobre 2011 on this page:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22267&start=50

But still you are right about the thread and first prototype pictures and yes, this is fantastic.

(Finding that page did take me 15 minutes, sorry MF8 I had to find it. :roll: :D )

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:05 am 
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It's true that they have a prototype in hand (made from injection molding), but this doesn't mean much. First of all it's look like the "cheap" plastic they use in the first prototype. And from what I've seen, mf8 releases their puzzles in a certain pattern. Even if it's "ready" I'm pretty sure they have a specific date in mind :shock: . I only hope it's not for too long. But my wallet wouldn't mind waiting another 2 years :oops: :lol: .

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:23 pm 
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I will surely purchase the pentultimate, but only when they produced them without holes.
I don't like making hateful posts, but seriously, what's with all the hype on void puzzle productions?
The concept of puzzles with holes was cool when okamoto's void cube first came out, but let's please move on from that. I want my puzzles plain, solid, and "normal".
This whole scene reminds me of when EVERY SINGLE puzzle was produced pillowed or with circles on each face.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:34 pm 
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In this case it's because the mechanism is much simpler when it's hollow... I'd love to have a "proper" shelled Pentultimate too, but I imagine the cost would be high - maybe even on par with Eitan's Star.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:41 pm 
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They can use hollowed mechanisms if they find it simpler. I understand that.
All I want is puzzles with no holes. My puzzles can be hollow. No problem with that. But I really don't care about being able to see through them.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:33 pm 
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I have potentially solved your problem with my master pentultimate design. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: 3D Printing, void master Pentultimate
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:22 pm 
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leonid wrote:
They can use hollowed mechanisms if they find it simpler. I understand that.
All I want is puzzles with no holes. My puzzles can be hollow. No problem with that. But I really don't care about being able to see through them.

I think it was grigr who uploaded a video of the puzzle. It does come with caps, but seeing as the hollow design was mass producable, they decided making it readily interchangeable between void and nonvoid states.

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