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 Post subject: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:31 am 
Hi, I can't find this anywhere so I made a new post.

When is a hand modded puzzle finished? Like, if 2 people were to start the same build at the same time, what is that line that is crossed when somebody can say they made it first? Say I cut the cube, fill with epoxy and re-shape with the dremel and do some sanding to get the final shape. Is that considered done? Of course it still needs to be painted and stickered, but the shaping is done. Does that design then belong to the person that got to that point? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:38 am 
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I'm not sure there is a "rule" on the forum but I think most folks go by the date it was presented on the forum.

I also don't think presenting a puzzle on the forum bestows complete ownership of the puzzle. I think it's more about respecting designers / inventors / builders / modders and if there is a grey area you can probably work within those bounds respectfully in a way that satisfies all parties involved.

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 Post subject: Re: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:22 am 
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I agree with the above.

Personally I like to see a physical working prototype as proof of concept to validate the design. Concepts alone are not enough, and should be kept secret until a working physical puzzle is made, unless you want input from other people to help you develop the concept as co-inventor. Aesthetic finishing and refinements are nice to see, and are important if you want to sell the puzzle, but I don't see that as a critical part of the design. At least that's my view.

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 Post subject: Re: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:46 am 
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I believe the ethics of the KO policy is more about copying than being first. Being first only proves (pretty much) your puzzle is not a copy so it's a good benchmark for ownership. However if I showed a new puzzle and then was contacted by a respected puzzle maker like Anthony Greenhill who told me he had almost completed the same puzzle I would never dream of 'telling him' not to sell it.
I think communication and honesty is they key. If you see a puzzle that you are working on and in the last stages of completion, then send the person some photos and say how you had already started it and have invested a lot of time and money into a puzzle you were hoping to sell. I feel this kind of communication must be sent immediately to prove credibility. A half arsed letter two weeks later would mean little to me.
Obviously there are massive grey areas like how far into a project you are etc etc and it would not apply to patented puzzles some of which haven't actually been made.
Most things like this in life simply comes down to respect and communication.

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 Post subject: Re: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:20 am 
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As to the difficulty of who can claim "ownership" of a puzzle, I need only refer you to this thread :( It is worth noting that the time between this puzzle being announced and it being sold in mass production was about 1 year.

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 Post subject: Re: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:40 pm 
Thanks everybody, I'm not in this situation but I have always wondered for if it ever happened haha.


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 Post subject: Re: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Gus wrote:
As to the difficulty of who can claim "ownership" of a puzzle, I need only refer you to this thread :( It is worth noting that the time between this puzzle being announced and it being sold in mass production was about 1 year.

Gus, I'm not sure I understand why you are linking to that thread. Could you please explain?


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 Post subject: Re: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:55 pm 
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eye2eye wrote:
Gus wrote:
As to the difficulty of who can claim "ownership" of a puzzle, I need only refer you to this thread :( It is worth noting that the time between this puzzle being announced and it being sold in mass production was about 1 year.

Gus, I'm not sure I understand why you are linking to that thread. Could you please explain?

Witeden presented the original design (not yet prototyped). Gus made the first sample. AJ started selling them through NowStore. Now Witeden is mass producing them.

-Doug

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 Post subject: Re: When is a puzzle considered done?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:30 am 
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I think the first person to name the idea owns it in perpetuity.

See this post for more on my opinion on the subject:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18525&start=0

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