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 Post subject: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Hi Twisty Puzzles fans,

Khaled's Time Machine was suggested by Khaled Habbab (a.k.a EMPEROR_COW). His idea combines Polo Gear Cube (conceived by Alex Polonsky) and Time Machine (by Li Chung Man, a.k.a Michael, a.k.a SmaZ).

The creation of the two prototypes was sponsored by Khaled. This first prototype was a miserable failure. The 2x2x2 turning was fine, but the gearing was completely jammed. The second prototypes had two improvements. First of all, the numbered pieces are now well confined in a rails mechanism. Secondly, the numbered pieces are centered around a circle, as was suggested by Khaled. The result is a puzzle that turns much better than Khaled and I could have dreamed.

Watch the YouTube video of the failed first prototype.
Watch the YouTube video of the successful second prototype.
Buy the puzzle at my Shapeways Shop.
Read more at the Shapeways Forum.
Check out the photos below.

Enjoy!

Oskar
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Last edited by Oskar on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Brilliant once again Oskar! I can't even fathom how you design these puzzles.


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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Insane. Truly insane. With all of the time machine pieces and gearing I'm surprised the gear moves work well.

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Oskar- I am really surprised at the quality of the time machine turns. Congratulations. It looks like a fantastic puzzle.
Also, your question at the end is very interesting.

In my mind, which is probably wrong, this would do it. Starting with the red face on top and the 1 just to the right of the middle slice as you showed.

2timetop'
R'
timefront'
R

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Nice puzzle as usual, a mechanical masterpiece. You just love the challenge when someone says "Why don't you combine puzzle X with Puzzle Y". Someday you will fail :lol: BTW, clocks which use Roman numerals have a IIII instead of a IV. And the reason for this is ... ?

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Gus wrote:
BTW, clocks which use Roman numerals have a IIII instead of a IV. And the reason for this is ... ?
Really???

PS. Great puzzle!

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:15 pm 
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It looks like on this version, the tiny stickers on each 2x2 piece are not necessary because of the central circles. Why did you bother with them?


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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Insane! I LOVE this machine :D My minds... They tear up in pieces :O

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Jared wrote:
It looks like on this version, the tiny stickers on each 2x2 piece are not necessary because of the central circles. Why did you bother with them?

Probably for the sake of having the full stickered look. It would look strange if the centers were blank.


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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Great Puzzle!!! Thanks for giving it a second chance.
Gus wrote:
BTW, clocks which use Roman numerals have a IIII instead of a IV. And the reason for this is ... ?
My understanding is that this is done to give the clock face a more balanced look. 4 of the numbers just contain I's, 4 contain a V, and 4 contain a X.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Good explanation. Or they ran out of Vs.

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:33 pm 
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OMG Oskar it moves even more beautiful than it looks!!

I'm so glad that the combined modification we talked about worked so well ! :D

I cannot wait to get my hands on it !!


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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:57 pm 
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thats just way too cool looking. Great work!

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:15 pm 
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congratulations !!
I'm glad my creation rebuild by the great designer.

I hope you understand I have the patent of time machine.
any mass production is not allow.

I accept any 3D printer production for selling.

thank you very much :)

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:13 am 
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Holy cow, Oskar! That turns really well!

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:43 am 
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Gus wrote:
Nice puzzle as usual, a mechanical masterpiece. You just love the challenge when someone says "Why don't you combine puzzle X with Puzzle Y". Someday you will fail :lol: BTW, clocks which use Roman numerals have a IIII instead of a IV. And the reason for this is ... ?

One of the theory: The template cut efficiency.
VIIIIIX => VI II IIX
VIIIIIX => V IIII IX
VIIIIIX => VII III X
VIIIIIX => VIII I IX

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:56 am 
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SmaZ wrote:
I hope you understand I have the patent of time machine.
any mass production is not allow.

I accept any 3D printer production for selling.


You do realize that the whole concept of the puzzle and how it works, as well as the internal parts are completely different from your puzzle, right?

It may have been inspired by your puzzle (which explains the name of the puzzle as a tribute), but it is far from being even remotely similar..


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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:03 am 
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I have to agree I was sad to read such a defensive reaction against what is a truly innovative concept. It's not even clear (or likely) that Oskar ever intends to put this into production, and I doubt anyone would consider this to be a KO even if he did.

Referring to this as a "rebuild" is simply not justified.

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:19 am 
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KelvinS wrote:
I have to agree I was sad to read such a defensive reaction against what is a truly innovative concept. It's not even clear (or likely) that Oskar ever intends to put this into production, and I doubt anyone would consider this to be a KO even if he did.

Referring to this as a "rebuild" is simply not justified.


While i agree that "rebuild" might not be the right word("re-engineering" seems to fit the idea SmaZ is trying to get across, and i try to give a pass to non-native english speakers), if smaz didn't want oskar to sell them, i'm sure Oskar would respect his wishes.


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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:41 am 
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Arkanoid0 wrote:
KelvinS wrote:
I have to agree I was sad to read such a defensive reaction against what is a truly innovative concept. It's not even clear (or likely) that Oskar ever intends to put this into production, and I doubt anyone would consider this to be a KO even if he did.

Referring to this as a "rebuild" is simply not justified.


While i agree that "rebuild" might not be the right word("re-engineering" seems to fit the idea SmaZ is trying to get across, and i try to give a pass to non-native english speakers), if smaz didn't want oskar to sell them, i'm sure Oskar would respect his wishes.


或者我應該用中文去表達我對奧斯卡這個設計的看法.

首先我得承認奧斯卡先生在創作上的才能, 他豐富了智力玩具的種類和款式. 是值得我們尊敬的.

在他這個結合齒輪和時間机器的創作上,是很棒的構想.
但在我看來,這個設計更著重於建立在時間机器的發展上, 大家可以從命名上看出來, 是Khaled's time machine. 這意味著它雖然結構上和我設計的不一樣,但它出來的結果仍然是時間机器, 無論改變了內部結構, 在外觀上仍然是時間机器, 仍然是Time Machine.

我作為Time Machine的原設計者, 也為我的創作購買了外觀專利, 我有必要去保護我的創作, 和你們去保護你們的家人一樣.

我較早之前說明的, 我擁有Time Machine的專利, 並不是反對奧斯卡的這個設計, 而是要告訴那些商人,那些廠家, 我仍然擁有Time Machine的外觀專利, 即使去生產奧斯卡的這個設計, 仍然是對我的侵權的行為. 因為奧斯卡的這個設計, 外觀上仍然是Time Machine.

大家也知道有關齒輪的盜版行為,最後演變成什麼樣的結果, 我是不希望再次發生在我身上.

而且我較早之前亦說出, 我接受奧斯卡先生以3D printer 製作的售賣方式, 售賣Khaled's time machine. 而我是沒有向奧斯卡先生提出任何金錢上的要求.

最後, 我只提出, 我無意在爭論什麼, 我只行使作為一個專利擁有人的權利,
或者那些盜版的商人根本上便無視我的聲音.

thank you very much.

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:39 am 
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SmaZ wrote:

或者我應該用中文去表達我對奧斯卡這個設計的看法.

首先我得承認奧斯卡先生在創作上的才能, 他豐富了智力玩具的種類和款式. 是值得我們尊敬的.

在他這個結合齒輪和時間机器的創作上,是很棒的構想.
但在我看來,這個設計更著重於建立在時間机器的發展上, 大家可以從命名上看出來, 是Khaled's time machine. 這意味著它雖然結構上和我設計的不一樣,但它出來的結果仍然是時間机器, 無論改變了內部結構, 在外觀上仍然是時間机器, 仍然是Time Machine.

我作為Time Machine的原設計者, 也為我的創作購買了外觀專利, 我有必要去保護我的創作, 和你們去保護你們的家人一樣.

我較早之前說明的, 我擁有Time Machine的專利, 並不是反對奧斯卡的這個設計, 而是要告訴那些商人,那些廠家, 我仍然擁有Time Machine的外觀專利, 即使去生產奧斯卡的這個設計, 仍然是對我的侵權的行為. 因為奧斯卡的這個設計, 外觀上仍然是Time Machine.

大家也知道有關齒輪的盜版行為,最後演變成什麼樣的結果, 我是不希望再次發生在我身上.

而且我較早之前亦說出, 我接受奧斯卡先生以3D printer 製作的售賣方式, 售賣Khaled's time machine. 而我是沒有向奧斯卡先生提出任何金錢上的要求.

最後, 我只提出, 我無意在爭論什麼, 我只行使作為一個專利擁有人的權利,
或者那些盜版的商人根本上便無視我的聲音.

thank you very much.


Translation: Or should I use Chinese to express my views on the design of the Oscar.

First of all, I have to admit that the creative, Mr. Oscar to his rich intellectual types of toys and models. Worthy of our respect.

His creative combination of gear and time machine, it is a great idea.
But in my opinion, this design is more emphasis on the development of the time machine, we can from naming point of view, is Khaled's time machine which means that although it and I design structure is not the same, but it is out of the result is still a time machine, whether to change the internal structure, the appearance is still a time machine, still is time Machine.

Me as the original designer of the Time Machine, purchased for my creative design patents, I need to protect my creation, and you go to protect your family.

I explained earlier, I have a Time Machine patent, is not opposed to the design of the Oscar, but to tell those businessmen, those manufacturers, I still have the appearance of the Time Machine patent, to produce the Oscars of the design is still infringement behavior. because the Oscars of the design, the appearance is still the Time Machine.

We all know about the gear piracy, and finally evolved into what kind of results, I do not want to happen to me again.

Earlier also say, I accept Mr. Oscar 3D printer made ​​by way of sale, sale Khaled's time machine. While I have not raised any money on the requirements to the Oscar, Mr..

Finally, I put forward, I have no intention of arguing, I only exercise rights as the owner of a patent,
Or those pirated merchant fundamentally they ignore my voice.

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:07 am 
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Guys, lets stay level headed here. I spoke to SmaZ about this. (Showed him photos of it before it was posted on TP even) He likes the design and has no ill will towards Oskar. I would go so far as to say he's flattered. SmaZ's point is as valid as anyone else who has had a design changed in some way. He paid for a patent which is still valid. (yes, I've seen the application forms) he is (rightfully) worried that it will be mass produced. You would be too if you spent the money SmaZ has spent making molds to get that puzzle out to us.

Both Oskar and SmaZ are very honest people and I don't anticipate either taking the other for granted or trying to make money off the other.

SmaZ answered in Chinese because I don't believe he can express his feelings in English without offending someone and he really has no intention of doing that. I don't think Oskar does either or he wouldn't have mentioned SmaZ's name in the initial post.

Please let's keep any further postings civilized. I don't want to have to worry about checking the forum hourly to make sure nothing nasty is going on. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:53 am 
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SmaZ as translated by Drake wrote:
Earlier also say, I accept Mr. Oscar 3D printer made ​​by way of sale, sale Khaled's time machine. While I have not raised any money on the requirements to the Oscar, Mr.
I personally view this as a very fair (even generous) offer of SamZ. I do agree that Oskar's puzzle is very new and inventive and is fundamentally a different puzzle from a solving perspective. However it remains that SamZ has a patent (and those aren't cheap) on his design and Oskar's puzzle is heavily influenced by this design, as admitted by Oskar himself. I know this site places a great deal of emphases on its KO policy, which to me I view in some ways as a poor man's version of a patent. Yes, I can't aford patants myself. The KO policy has no legal weight but its a means this site has put into place to try and prodect and show respect of designers. So if there is a line in the sand one doesn't want to cross regarding the KO policy, you want to stay even farther away from that line where patents are concerned. They do carry legal weight and in my view should supersede any KO policy issues. Even though I fully agree that Oskar's design isn't a KO, I fully believe one should (and I'm sure Oskar would agree) respect the wishes of the patent holder in this case. I personally am very greatful he's allowed the sale of 3D printed designs. As Oskar doesn't mass produces his own twisty puzzles anyways I highly doubt anything beyond that was planned at this stage anyways. And I don't think there is anything that has been said that would prohibit SmaZ from offering a licence (and working with Oskar) down the road in case someone like Mefferts was interested in seeing this mass produced. He just doesn't want to see one of the KO manufacturers producing this design and ignoring his patent. Such action in some sense is also protecting Oskar, as if a KO manufacturer were to do this its highly unlikely they'd offer anything to Oskar either.

All the above said... I also highly doubt this puzzle would be on the radar of most KO manufacturers. This puzzle, whichout having seen all the mechanism, I suspect is far more complex that most of the puzzles they steal. So from their perspective, I suspect there is alot of lower hanging fruit out there much easier for them to go after. Still SamZ has every right to make it clear he's a patent holder and he intends to protect his patent.

The last time I made an attempt to express views similiar to this it blew up in my face. So I hope I don't look too stupid for opening my big mouth again.

Carl

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Last edited by wwwmwww on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:05 am 
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thank you roxanne, and Carl.


I use Chinese, except for my poor English, also hope to those businessmen, manufacturers know, my patent in Oskar the creation, it is still effective, hope that they will be able to stop to mass produce.

I need to say, Oskar made a good design, if you are interesting on it, please go to buy one from shapeway. Oskar's shop.

thank you very much

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Last edited by SmaZ on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:54 pm 
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I've got my time machine and absolutely love it, this is incredible haha
it's almost too over the top :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Hi Carl, Rox and Michael (a.k.a Smaz),

Thank you for your explanations. As I fully agree, and you accurately describe the situation at hand, I do not have much to add.

Khaled's Time Machine is a "mech mod" of Michael's original Time Machine design. I agree with the parallel that Michael sketches with the Gear Cube shape-mods. The abundance of such hand-made shapemods may lead to the false believe that everybody can mass-produce such shapemods without asking for permission or license. Similarly, the Time Machine constitutes a unique shape and theme, which has an intrinsic value. The explicit referencing of Time Machine in the description and name of our "mech mod" is meant as an acknowledgment of - and tribute to the original Time Machine design. But again, as highlighted by Michael, this should not lead to the false believe that anybody can mass produce Time-Machine look-alikes without asking for permission or license.

I do not consider Khaled's Time Machine suited for mass-production. Especially the eight inner corners are highly complex with many undercuts. But given the recent mass-production of Petaminx and the super-high NxNxN, who knows?
wwwmwww wrote:
I know this site places a great deal of emphases on its KO policy, which to me I view in some ways as a poor man's version of a patent.
That is an interesting observation. I notice that all decent producers and sellers adhere to the KO policy. Or is that just circular reasoning, as the KO policy defines what we consider decent? :D

Oskar

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:56 pm 
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This is really nice. I especially like the embossed look that the time machine pieces have.

-Doug

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 Post subject: Re: Khaled's Time Machine by KHALED and OSKAR
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:32 am 
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I guess now that I have a puzzle named after me I can have a special avatar on the side! :D


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