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 Post subject: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:18 am 
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Felix Baumgartner (born 20 April 1969) is an Austrian skydiver and a base jumper. He is renowned for the particularly dangerous nature of the stunts he has performed during his career.
Baumgartner's current project is Red Bull Stratos, where he plans to jump to Earth from a helium balloon in the stratosphere. During the jump he expected to be the first man ever to break the sound barrier during free fall.
After several delays because of weather his next attempt is due- Sunday 6.30am MDT which I believe is GMT -6 hours. You can follow the updates on Twitter- @RedBullStratos or the website- http://www.redbullstratos.com where it has a count down. The event will be transmitted live on the website.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:38 pm 
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I reckon Joe Kittinger got on the team just so that he can put a tiny pin prick in Felix's space suit, to protect his own record. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
During the jump he expected to be the first man ever to break the sound barrier during free fall.
I've seen these claims elsewhere as well but I don't think they are true. Here is a quote from this web site (http://www.balloonlife.com/publications/balloon_life/9510/balloonm.htm)
Quote:
His final flight in this series, Excelsior III, took place on August 16, 1960. Kittinger piloted his craft to an altitude of 102,800 feet before exiting the open gondola. On the descent Kittinger became the first man to exceed the Speed of Sound without an aircraft or space vehicle. It is still the highest parachute jump ever. The freefall lasted four minutes and thirty-six seconds, a record.
So why all the hype about the sound barrier now? That barrier was broken over a half century ago... unless I'm missing something which I probably am.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:45 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
So why all the hype about the sound barrier now? That barrier was broken over a half century ago... unless I'm missing something which I probably am.
This time it's sponsored by Red Bull, so it's special. [/cynical sarcasm]

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Kittinger actually only went 614 mph (equivalent to Mach 0.9).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excelsior


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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Perhaps the confusion is because the speed of sound depends on the surrounding air temperature (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_number):
Quote:
The speed represented by Mach 1 is not a constant; for example, it is mostly dependent on temperature and atmospheric composition and largely independent of pressure. Since the speed of sound increases as the temperature increases, the actual speed of an object traveling at Mach 1 will depend on the fluid temperature around it. Mach number is useful because the fluid behaves in a similar way at the same Mach number. So, an aircraft traveling at Mach 1 at 20°C or 68°F, at sea level, will experience shock waves in much the same manner as when it is traveling at Mach 1 at 11,000 m (36,000 ft) at -50°C or -58F, even though it is traveling at only 86% of its speed at higher temperature like 20°C or 68°F.

So Kittinger did break the sound barrier way up there in the cold, thin atmosphere where sound travels much slower. But surely that's the important point, to break the sound barrier as you fall through the atmosphere, not at sea level where the speed of sound is irrelevant when you're skydiving - that is, unless you forget to pull your chute! :lol:

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Last edited by KelvinS on Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:29 pm 
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So I guess it has to go bang to count.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
So I guess it has to go bang to count.

But does it make a sound if there's nobody there to hear it? :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_ ... n_a_forest

PS. Up in the thin atmosphere I guess it would be more like a pop than a bang, while further up in space you wouldn't hear anything at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:10 pm 
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So now I read this quote by Kittinger himself in Benf207's link above, I don't think he did break the sound barrier at that altitude:

Quote:
"An hour and thirty-one minutes after launch, my pressure altimeter halts at 103,300 feet. At ground control the radar altimeters also have stopped-on readings of 102,800 feet, the figure that we later agree upon as the more reliable. It is 7 o'clock in the morning, and I have reached float altitude ... Though my stabilization chute opens at 96,000 feet, I accelerate for 6,000 feet more before hitting a peak of 614 miles an hour, nine-tenths the speed of sound at my altitude."

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:03 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
So now I read this quote by Kittinger himself in Benf207's link above, I don't think he did break the sound barrier at that altitude:
Hmmm... Not sure what to think. Here is an official Air Force website that says he DID break the sound barrier.

http://www.af.mil/information/heritage/person.asp?dec=&pid=123006518

And I believe one of the videos I've seen of the event has someone that says an audible sonic boom was heard from the ground. I'm at work at the moment so I don't have sound and can't check. That only happens if you break the speed of sound. I wonder is Kittinger himself is getting confused about the speed of sound at altitude and sea level. I've been a huge fan of NASA and all things space for all my life and I've been aware of Kittinger's jump for as long as I can remember and he's ALWAYS been credited as the first human to break the sound barrier without the aid of a vehicle. Not sure why that's now up for debate.

Confused...
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:08 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:

...and in that article it gives the speed as 714mph rather than 614mph, so now what are we to believe???

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:11 am 
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Winds continue to delay but at time of posting there is live coverage here- http://www.redbullstratos.com/live/ of the preparation. It looks like they are now going to use a crane instead. I very much hope it will be tall enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:33 am 
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By the looks of things, he just launched!

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:20 am 
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Nothing serious but I just heard someone say "hold on. I screwed up".

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:00 pm 
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About to jump. UK viewers can watch on bbc news channel if streaming gets overloaded.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Wheee, look at him go

So, what actually is the "valuable data for medical and scientific advancement" that his jump delivers? Knowledge to drop more rich people from unnecessarily high altitudes?

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:12 pm 
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So he didn't beat Kittinger's freefall time record because he fell too fast!

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Coaster1235 wrote:
Wheee, look at him go

So, what actually is the "valuable data for medical and scientific advancement" that his jump delivers? Knowledge to drop more rich people from unnecessarily high altitudes?

They were talking about emergences during space flights (taking off and landing I assume) and in planes.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:33 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
So he didn't beat Kittinger's freefall time record because he fell too fast!


Well at least they have the equipment so they can try it again if they want, this time with a "slow-me-down" pose. Oh, would you look at that. Freefall videos are already popping up on YouTube. I'm sad that I popped out for a walk a few minutes before he jumped, thinking I'd be back in time...and I missed it :( :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:39 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
So he didn't beat Kittinger's freefall time record because he fell too fast!
Well I would guess that is a pretty good indication that Kittinger didn't break the sound barrier. If true (still not sure that it is) then the question becomes was we he given credit for breaking the sound barrier for the last 50+ years?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:40 am 
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833mph! Wow!

Though not to lessen the achievement, that's only about 0.000000000001% faster than each of us as we orbit round the Milky Way. And depending on the orientation of the earth relative to its orbit round the galaxy as he did the dive, he could have actually been going 0.000000000001% slower than the rest of us. Oh the irony! :lol:

OK, I made that number up, but it puts things into perspective. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:49 am 
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Nevertheless, the Herr Baumgartner possesses spheroids made of titanium :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:59 am 
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Gus wrote:
Nevertheless, the Herr Baumgartner possesses spheroids made of titanium :shock:

Or lead, as they certainly helped his descent. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:32 am 
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KelvinS wrote:
Gus wrote:
Nevertheless, the Herr Baumgartner possesses spheroids made of titanium :shock:

Or lead, as they certainly helped his descent. :D

Not so much for the first part of his fall.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:40 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
KelvinS wrote:
Gus wrote:
Nevertheless, the Herr Baumgartner possesses spheroids made of titanium :shock:

Or lead, as they certainly helped his descent. :D

Not so much for the first part of his fall.

That's very true, only later on as he encountered more air resistance. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Thanks for posting this. I meant to watch this, but totally forgot. I'll have to watch it when I get a minute.

What's the acceleration due to gravity at 39K meters anyway? He's probably going wat too slow to need to worry about burning up on the way down.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:58 pm 
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darryl wrote:
What's the acceleration due to gravity at 39K meters anyway?
Hardly any less than it is at the surface, since gravity is inversely proportional to the distance squared from the earth's center, a few million meters down. 39K meters is nothing compared with the earth's radius.

PS. All those pictures you saw of Felix with the curved earth in the background are taken with a panoramic lens, making it look much higher up than it really was. At that height the horizon would still be almost flat. But hey, the curved pictures look a lot more impressive and sell more papers.

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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:21 pm 
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I asked because in orbit they are only what 100 miles up or so and they are weightless, but then it dawned on my they are moving really fast to stay in orbit, so it's centripetal acceleration and all that fun stuff making people weightless. When you are staying still that high, it's a little different.
The crazy part to me is how to keep from spinning when there is very little air to allow yourself to change any direction. That and if he wasn't in a pressurized suit, all of the water in his mouth, lungs, etc. would boil away.

-d


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 Post subject: Re: Watch Felix Baumgartner's record skydive live
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Being in orbit is essentially the same as free falling: in both cases the body and all internal organs are accelerating with the force of gravity rather than against it, so you feel weightless. The only difference between being in orbit and falling straight down is that the sideways movement of orbit makes you miss the earth as you fall towards it, and you end up at the same height above the surface but in a different place, and traveling at the same speed but in a different direction parallel to the surface.

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