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 Post subject: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:21 pm 
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So I'm not sure if another topic like this exists, but anyhow. What OS (Operating System, for those who might not know) do you all use and why?
I personally use Ubuntu and LUbuntu along with XP and my reasons are:

Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Laptop): Its easy for me to use and it can use my computer's capabilities better than XP. So I can do better searching and use a lot of apps.

LUbuntu 12.04 LTS (Desktop): My desktop has only HALF a Gigabyte of RAM and its a lighter weight than XP or Ubuntu (even though it is basically Ubuntu).

XP (Same laptop): I use XP to use Solidworks and other programs that can't be run under Ubuntu (.exe files for example, even though "Wine" helps, it can't do everything) and I just use it because others that need to use my laptop are used to the interface.

So what are your OS's and why do you have them?
P.S. I dual boot on my laptop.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:45 pm 
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I think this has been brought up a few times already but here goes:

Code:
brenrigh@lambda ~ $ uname -a
Linux lambda 3.5.0 #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Aug 7 00:12:55 UTC 2012 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU M 560 @ 2.67GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux


Gentoo is my distribution of choice with a mostly GNU userland and bash as my shell. Firefox with AdBlock+ and NoScript is my browser of choice (although I do like the sandbox approach Chromium takes).


There are many uses for a computer and everyone has a different set that is most important to them. The way you user your machine dictates in part what operating system is the best choice for you.

Both personally and professionally Linux is the best choice for me (and has been for about 9 years now). My usage of Windows is now almost entirely limited to malware analysis and forensics.

If I spent most of my day working with multimedia I'd probably use OS X and if my day consisted of "business productivity" activities and office work, I'd probably kill myself.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:00 am 
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Kernel: Linux 3.0.0.3 64-Bit
Base System: Debian Wheezy
Repositories: Wheezy Main, Contrib, and Non-Free; Ubuntu Precise Main, Universe, and FreeCAD PPA.
Desktop environment: LXDE.
Terminal Emulator: LXterminal
Browser: IceWeasel
Text Editor: Nano
Office Suite: None, though I am looking for a lightweight RTF editor.
Music Player: LXmusic
Video Player: Mplayer
Image Viewer: Geeqie
PDF viewer: None, I just use pdftotext and pdfimages to extract their content.
Specialized software: FreeCAD

In general, I like lightweight, minimalist software that lets me get work done without having to navigate a sea of useless bells and whistles. That said, I am interested in any suggestions for getting a simpler set-up.

For the record, FreeCAd is the only reason for the mixed repositories. Pure Debian leaves me stuck with an outdated version(unless I build from Git) while Pure Ubuntu leaves me with broken sound and having to deal with annoying customizations Ubuntu made to their Debian base.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:26 am 
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Plain old Windows 7. Windows is what I've grown up with. I've used Mac OS and I just don't like it at all. Never tried Linux or any of that because Windows works just fine for me and I guess I don't feel adventurous :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Windows 7 Ultimate for me. I've used Macs before, but I just seem to prefer Windows.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:13 am 
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I use OS X (Lion).

At work I write automation scripts - most of the people we support are in Graphics and are running Macs. I've always enjoyed Apple's OS - especially when they decided to use the power of Unix.


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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:20 am 
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But really, I use Windows 7 for Solidworks. Other than that, nearly everything else I do is done through a browser, or applications that have equivalents across all of the major operating systems.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:42 am 
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W7 -> favorite interface + good for geeking extremely fast, speedy shortcuts etc.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:40 am 
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I used to use Windows 7 for gaming until I discovered that Fallout New Vegas works under Wine.

Now for me, I use Linux Mint 13 with the KDE desktop on my main PC, and we have 3 laptops / netbooks running Mint 11 with Gnome 2 desktop. Lastly is my wife's laptop that's always breaking. That runs Windows 7. She is the only inflexable one in the house.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:54 am 
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Having started computing with a Tandy TRS80, Sinclair ZX80 then 81 and finally moved to a Dragon 32, I only really seriously used computers in 1985. Here I used either DOS and I discovered Macs with system 5! I then owned 2 Macs and in 1994 when it appeared that Apple had no future I moved to Windows 3.1 followed by 95, 98, ME and finally XP.

In 2007 I finally got fed up of wiping Windows and reinstalling every 6 months (I'm kind of hard on my computers) and coupled with the spectacular failure of my 17" laptop (smoke and all!!!) I finally "went back to Mac" and now there are 3 of them in the household plus an iPhone and iPad! As long as Apple don't take the OS too close to iOS then I will stay with them. I do like the Unix underpinnings. At the moment I'm still on Snow Leopard but will upgrade to Mountain Lion when my hardware is supported and I am sure that there are no horrible issues.

For a year I had a virtual machine with Win XP solely to run MS Money but after a year of not using it, I wiped it. I have played with a VM of Ubuntu but can't really see any reason to move to Linux long term for my use.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:46 am 
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I'm using OS X Mountain Lion. I find OS X to be a much smoother OS than Windows, although I have not tried Linux. It's also much more user friendly in my opinion. The multi touch gestures are probably my favorite part of OS X. I love scrolling through webpages with 2 fingers and displaying all my windows with a single swipe. I am aware that this can be had in windows on certain machines, but the ones I have used have not functioned as well as on OS X. Another reason why I'm a big Apple fan is the fact that everything is under one roof so to speak. The computer is made by Apple, the software is made by Apple, the tech support is through Apple. Everything is designed to work together. Now this is also the reason I think the iPhone is great, I see all the time that different Android versions don't work on this HTC phone and that Samsung phone and they all get updates at different times. The support from Apple is also the best in my opinion. On my Macbook Pro, the trackpad got stuck in the down position for some strange reason, so I brought it to the genius bar and after they couldn't determine the problem they replaced the entire unibody case. A few years ago, one of our plastic macbooks was dropped which screwed up the hard drive, the disk drive and the entire case. We brought it to the genius bar and the repair cost was going to be $400 some odd dollars, but they waived it all.

Anyways, this is starting to sound like an Apple advertisement :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Mepis Linux, on the latest 12 alpha release which is stable for me to use.

I have been using mepis for years now.. I love the stability, and the not having to worry about viruses and all. If I don't want to update, fine, then I don't. I have the choice, which I love :)


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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:54 pm 
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OS X 10.6.8
I could update to something newer, but I'm fairly lazy and have no compelling need at the moment. I bootcamp into Win7 Ultimate (64 bit) for running Alibre but that was only because at the time Fusion didn't have the 3D support for it. Now it does but I'm fine rebooting the few times I have time to work in 3D.

I like the Mac because I started using Unix in school and at work a few decades ago and have always loved the simplicity and power that environment gives me. The Mac is a well polished UI with most of what I want and I can always drop down to the shell when I feel like it and I have the full Unix toolchain to back me up.

I can work with Vi but am really at home in Emacs. Having the basics of the Emacs key bindings in bash, readline tools and (most importantly) the basic Mac text object is an advantage I cannot over emphasize. Being comfortable and efficient editing text in all situations (not just the main text editor tool) is just a massive plus for me.

I think the Mac has done a good job at giving "good enough" productivity tools for free. I'm sure I would love their high end photo and video editing tools but for those few times I want to make a video or DVD iMovie and iDVD do most of what I want.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:16 am 
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DLitwin wrote:
I can work with Vi but am really at home in Emacs. Having the basics of the Emacs key bindings in bash, readline tools and (most importantly) the basic Mac text object is an advantage I cannot over emphasize. Being comfortable and efficient editing text in all situations (not just the main text editor tool) is just a massive plus for me.

I'm an Emacs guy too (and of course, Emacs bindings in bash). I can make minor edits in in vi but I'm not a huge fan.

Of course, there's always the the fabulous chain of useful text processing:
egrep | awk | sed | perl -ne '' | sort -u | ...

I've seen what should take a minute with pipes, take people spend hours copy and pasting between Word and Excel to parse out some big text file and get the fields all just right.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:28 am 
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bmenrigh wrote:
I'm an Emacs guy too (and of course, Emacs bindings in bash).

Of course, there's always the the fabulous chain of useful text processing:
egrep | awk | sed | perl -ne '' | sort -u | ...

I also tend to use text editors rather than word processors and am a big fan of multimarkdown.

But I have to say..... I have absolutely no idea what any of what you said means!!
What are Emacs bindings in Bash?
What does that piped statement do? How can I learn it?

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:48 am 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
I'm an Emacs guy too (and of course, Emacs bindings in bash).

Of course, there's always the the fabulous chain of useful text processing:
egrep | awk | sed | perl -ne '' | sort -u | ...

I also tend to use text editors rather than word processors and am a big fan of multimarkdown.
MultiMarkdown reminds me very much of what DocBook XML is designed for, only it has its own simplified markup language. While yes, this is a text editor, it's purpose and function is significantly different than the traditional definition of "text editor". Text editors are designed for editing line-based text such as configuration files and source code. Most of their features focus on quickly moving from one place to another without the need of a mouse as well as manipulating blocks of text in a programmatic way (think search and replace only much more powerful).

Puzzlemad wrote:
But I have to say..... I have absolutely no idea what any of what you said means!!
What are Emacs bindings in Bash?
What does that piped statement do? How can I learn it?
I can't tell if I'm being baited or not so I'll bite.

Emacs bindings in bash are all of the cursor and text manipulation shortcuts of Emacs, in bash. The two most common as C-a (ctrl+a) which moves you to the start of a line and C-e to the end of the line. Other common ones are C-k, C-y, etc.
See http://www.catonmat.net/blog/bash-emacs-editing-mode-cheat-sheet/ for a few examples.

Last time I used OS X I noticed the native text boxes accepted some Emacs-mode commands.

As for my chain of commands, of course I left out lots of details. The '|' (pipe) char takes the output of one program and feeds it into the next program. In this way you can link together multiple manipulations into a single command. Here is a contrived example:

Code:
brenrigh@lambda ~ $ echo example
example

brenrigh@lambda ~ $ echo example | sed -r 's/^(..)(.*)$/\1 \2/g'
ex ample

brenrigh@lambda ~ $ echo example | sed -r 's/^(..)(.*)$/\1 \2/g' | awk '{print $2}'
ample

brenrigh@lambda ~ $ echo example | sed -r 's/^(..)(.*)$/\1 \2/g' | awk '{print $2}' | perl -ne 'print "\u${_}";'
Ample

brenrigh@lambda ~ $ echo example | sed -r 's/^(..)(.*)$/\1 \2/g' | awk '{print $2}' | perl -ne 'print "\u${_}";' | egrep -o '.' | sort -u
A
e
l
m
p

brenrigh@lambda ~ $ echo example | sed -r 's/^(..)(.*)$/\1 \2/g' | awk '{print $2}' | perl -ne 'print "\u${_}";' | egrep -o '.' | sort -u | wc
      5       5      10



And if you don't want a contrived example, here is my most recent use of something like this according to my bash history:
Code:
4615  cat links.txt | awk '{print $1}' | sed -r 's/\.$//g' | perl -ne 'print lc($_)' | egrep -v '^[[:space:]]*$' | sort -u | while read LINE; do echo -n $LINE | sha1sum ; done | awk '{print $1}' | sort > bad_stuff.txt

I had a need to share a set of links with someone for badness detection without revealing to them the links. The data was multi-field so I grabbed the first filed, trimmed of the trailing space, lowercased it, removed any blank lines, sorted with duplicate elimination, hashed each line, printed the first field (the hash), and sorted the hashes.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:19 pm 
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When I did real programming the last time it was UNIX OS development based on UNIX workstations (using vi first and later Emacs).
The target systems were a wide range of UNIX servers.
I got involved in UNIX development in 1982. Wow, a thirty years anniversary :wink:

Later I had to communicate a lot with other managers and I switched to Windows.
In the first three days (in 1993 and it was Windows 3.1 :roll: ) I had more crashes on my PC than in the years before on my UNIX systems.
Now I use a Windows 7 64bit notebook and it is quite OK.
I have never had a Mac, though. Maybe, I should try one the next time?

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Last edited by Konrad on Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:19 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
I can't tell if I'm being baited or not so I'll bite.

I'm not baiting you! :shock: I have never heard of Emacs bindings - after your explanation I realised that I should have known it.

bmenrigh wrote:
Code:
4615  cat links.txt | awk '{print $1}' | sed -r 's/\.$//g' | perl -ne 'print lc($_)' | egrep -v '^[[:space:]]*$' | sort -u | while read LINE; do echo -n $LINE | sha1sum ; done | awk '{print $1}' | sort > bad_stuff.txt

In just that one line you use sed and awk and perl as well as basic Unix commands. Why do you mix them all? I was under the impression that if you learned one then the others would be superfluous! Is there stuff that one does that the other doesn't/can't? I am very keen on automation and have been using AppleScript but find it a truly hateful language to use. Would you suggest these as an alternative? If so which ones and where to start? What about Ruby?

I have done little programming since the late 70s and 80s - initially BASIC (spit!!! :lol: ), then 6809 and 6502 Assembly (wrote my own Space Invaders in 6809 Assembly - it nearly killed me!!!), followed by Pascal and finally a little C. But it has been at least 10 years since I really programmed anything! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Puzzlemad wrote:
In just that one line you use sed and awk and perl as well as basic Unix commands. Why do you mix them all? I was under the impression that if you learned one then the others would be superfluous! Is there stuff that one does that the other doesn't/can't? I am very keen on automation and have been using AppleScript but find it a truly hateful language to use. Would you suggest these as an alternative? If so which ones and where to start? What about Ruby?


So I tend to break tasks down into very simple, easily digestible chunks and then tackle each chunk in its own command. This makes troubleshooting a lot easier. I'm not claiming the results are "the right way" or "the best way" or even a good way, much less efficient. It works though and you should only worry about doing it another way when you need efficiency or the easy way just won't work.

I use awk for field splitting and printf formatting (most people use cut)
I use egrep for filtering and very basic substring extraction (with the -o parameter)
I use sed for regular expression search and replace and regular-expression-based field and substring extraction
I use perl for anything complicated or anything I don't know how to do easily with awk or sed.

You could mostly use awk as a replacement for egrep and sed and cut but awk has its limitations. Perl is more powerful and flexible (at the cost of more complexity).

I know one tool very well and I can do anything in it (perl) and a bunch of tools sorta okay. Then for each small chunk I figure out which tool I can achieve the goal with the littlest effort and use that.

Perl, Python, and Ruby are all roughly equivalent in terms of power. You can use them for anything and you probably only need to know one really well. You can get buy just barely being able to read the other two.

If you are a:

Hacker / Sysadmin: use perl
Computer scientist / engineer / security pro: use python
Hipster: use ruby

Of course this is a huge simplification. Rails is a nice web framework for Ruby so if that's your thing use that. If you're really not sure what you should learn I'd suggest Python since it gives you roughly the most power for the least amount of syntax and gives you access to some pretty sophisticated programming language features (lambda closures, decorators, other cool stuff).

Also, use the right tool for the job. If you're automating stuff in AppleScript chances are just a tiny bit of bash will get the job done just fine.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Quote:
I am very keen on automation and have been using AppleScript but find it a truly hateful language to use. Would you suggest these as an alternative?


It depends on how you're using it. If you're trying to automate an application like Photoshop, InDesign, TextEdit, Excel, etc. then you need a language that can talk to that specific app. That's where AppleScript fits in. Although for Adobe apps I like to use JavaScript instead. And for Excel I like to use VBA. But AppleScript still works and can be incredibly helpful. AppleScript also has "do shell script" where you can call the command line - a very nice feature to have!

If you're needing to parse text files, pull system info, talk to the web, etc, then these other script languages would be better. I like Python a lot, mainly due to it's power and it's cleaner syntax.

bmenrigh mentioned a lot of great and helpful info.


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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Thanks guys! :D :D :D

I really appreciate all these comments (not really twisty related!) - I have a lot of reading to do now. Lord knows how I'll find the time!!!

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:40 pm 
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As for an OS, Linux all the way. I'm really liking Arch linux (surprised it wasn't mentioned already), it always has up-to-date software and lets you configure it with whatever desktop environment / window manager / applications you want (there's no GUI installer and the default base install has no graphical user interface). Kinda like Gentoo, just not quite as crazy.

Speaking of Gentoo:

Quote:
Haven't you guys heard the scary tale of a Devoted Linux User (affectionately called /dev/luser by his friends).? It has passed down the generations that one fine day, our dear /dev/luser, a loyal Ubuntu fan, decided that he wanted to change. So he locked himself in the basement of his house with nary but his computer, stopped responding to phone calls, SMSes and e-mails, never came out to wine, dine or even release his brine. This continued for a whole week. His friends, now worried for his health and sanity, decide to break down the lock and barge into the basement. A ghastly scene meets their eyes: in the farthest corner of the basement covered by cob-webs and dust, the back of /dev/luser sitting on a chair, typing feverishly on the keyboard using all ten fingers at once, occasionally craning his neck to look at the undecipherable scrolling mess of green text on the monitor. The bravest friend approaches closer and finds a diabolical CD cover with words "GENTOO" engraved on it lying on the floor. He stops dead in his track with a look of primal fear in his eyes as he watches his friend's neck and head turn a full 180 degrees, even as his hands continue typing, his mouth opens and fill the basement with an inhumane, lifeless, almost Stallman-ish voice, "THE KERNEL AND I ARE ONE NOW!"

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Mindstormscreator wrote:
As for an OS, Linux all the way. I'm really liking Arch linux (surprised it wasn't mentioned already), it always has up-to-date software and lets you configure it with whatever desktop environment / window manager / applications you want (there's no GUI installer and the default base install has no graphical user interface). Kinda like Gentoo, just not quite as crazy.

I used Arch for about two years and liked it, but I started getting a little annoyed with it as time passed. It seemed like a lot of the software became buggy, and at least twice the NetInstall LiveCDs started giving me broken installations. The last time that happened I saw it as an opportunity to switch to Gentoo for good. I had performed the Gentoo manual installation twice before and given up, but this time I succeeded with a bit of help from bmenrigh on IRC. :D

I think that anyone comfortable with Arch should give Gentoo a try. The install is a bit daunting but it gets easier with a few attempts.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Quirky-Cubes wrote:

I think that anyone comfortable with Arch should give Gentoo a try. The install is a bit daunting but it gets easier with a few attempts.

Chandler


I'm finding Arch to be pretty stable and good at the moment, so I think I'll stick with it for now, but if I start to get annoyed with it I'll seriously consider Gentoo.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:48 pm 
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Mindstormscreator wrote:
I'm finding Arch to be pretty stable and good at the moment, so I think I'll stick with it for now, but if I start to get annoyed with it I'll seriously consider Gentoo.

The problem I have with most distributions is that in order to make things "simpler" they make choices for you. Most of the time the choices they've made are fine and non-controversial but once in a while the distribution forces something on you that you're not happy with.

When that thing is too fundamental (such as glibc version) to all of the binary packages they've already compiled for you you're faced with 1) or deviate significantly from how your distribution did something and deal with the breakage 2) give up and accept what you distribution did or 3) try to maintain a local copy of whatever packages you want done your way and not use the system packages.

With Gentoo I've never run into these problems because it is designed from the beginning to support extreme flexibility.

With most distributions there is plenty of "I can't do that because {Debian, Arch, Redhat} doesn't support it.".

With Gentoo the answer to everything is some variation on "I can do that but it'll be a lot of work.".

When I get shot in the foot I want it to be my fault, not because my distribution did it to me.

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 Post subject: Re: What OS do you use, and why?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
bmenrigh wrote:
Mindstormscreator wrote:
I'm finding Arch to be pretty stable and good at the moment, so I think I'll stick with it for now, but if I start to get annoyed with it I'll seriously consider Gentoo.

The problem I have with most distributions is that in order to make things "simpler" they make choices for you.


I used to use Debian, and I didn't like how the packages were out of date; even Unstable's packages were behind Arch's. So I like how Arch is a binary distribution with very little limitations on what you make of it, as well as having up-to-date packages which I think complements it very well, but I guess if you want different versions of stuff a source-base distro like Gentoo will give that freedom.

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