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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:05 am 
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Stefan Schwalbe wrote:
3. number and orientation options: I have sometimes found deviations , e.g. in + FaceIV and CornersideII
You and Brandon already discussed the point I wanted to make here. "+FaceIV" is neither a face nor an edge. "CornersideII" is totally different to the first Cornerside.
Stefan Schwalbe wrote:
The number of parts, should arise from the symmetries.
Exactly. Each of the piece types can be represented by a subgroup of Oh, the symmetry group of the hexahedron. "+FaceIV" obeys a different subgroup of Oh than "+Face" or "Edge" does. Therefore they are different piece types. "+FaceIV" has 12 instances but that doesn't mean much because a group can have many different subgroups with identical size. In my preliminary system for classifying virtual pieces I labeled this piece type with "Uz".

BTW:
Does anybody know a good description of the subgroups of Oh quickly understandable by Average-Joe?
I made one for myself, but that is not really comprehensible.

The number of different piece types in "traditional" hexahedral puzzles is rather low: Core, Face, Corner, Edge, Wings, T-Faces and ObLiques. Please note that X-Faces are geometrically identical to Wings. When Circle-variants and strange interconnected layers are considered, I expect that you will find a piece type for all subgroups of Oh.

At least in theory everything is easier in the dodecahedral world because Ih (the symmetry group of the dodecahedron) has far less subgroups as Oh.

You noticed, that there are still some deviations.
The restrictions orientations in the Skewb (or Skewb Diamond) is another one I want to explain more. In fact all puzzles with this axis system tend to be "halved", as all pieces here either have a halved number of orientations or fall into (at least) two orbits. Furthermore in this axis system it is possible to let one halve of the pieces vanish: Please compare 5.1.2 and 5.1.3
This is not that surprising because here we are dealing with Th, the symmetry group of the tetrahedron, which is itself a subgroup of Oh.
When aiming at a consistent classification scheme we have to make one choice here:
1. Option: We introduce Th as the third symmetry group and define corner, edge, face, etc... for this group too.
2. Option: We treat this puzzles and its pieces as part of the hexahedral family and accept, that there are deviations.
I vote for option 2 because it makes our life easier when we want to deal with the puzzles of 3.4.X. In that case the deviations vanish.
bmenrigh wrote:
The Complex 3x3x3 also has pieces that can't reach all orientations (the UD pieces have 8 orientations but only 4 are reachable). Also, the UD pieces can't be permuted. The position they are in (relative to each other or relative to the core) is fixed.
Yes. This piece type deviates strongly from the theory. But imaging a hybrid puzzle with two different axis systems. Maybe the deviations vanish there too.
Stefan Schwalbe wrote:
5. I should change my slice type names here perhaps. The number should reflect the number of the logical slices. For example 'Typ 5c' would then be a 'Typ 3.' But you would call it an 'order 5'?
Sadly I can't view 3.3.30 (your only example for Type 5c) right now. But from your second image I would say: This is the same order as 3.3.1 because of the same number of logical layers per axis.
gelatinbrain wrote:
I think my approach is essentially same as yours and that of Andreas.
Yes. I think that too.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:09 am 
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Today I gathered some stats from the ranking page, and computed some numbers like how many moves per second I am using, or how many moves per puzzle I'm using, with or without macro moves. The attached file contains the stats for the current top 20 puzzle solvers. Please go find yourself in it!

Since everything is from the current ranking page, if you have solved a puzzle many times, the effort is not reflected in the table, unfortunately. Also, if you cannot make it to the top 50 list, it's not possible to get the time/move count. Although the stats are crude, we can really see different styles from different solvers.

Here are some facts:

--I took advantage from macro the most: solving 64% of the puzzles using macro, 85% of my twists are done by macro.
--In terms of the number of puzzles solved without help of macro, Agamemnon and Julian tie on 237. I wonder who will lead in the near future.
--Julian spent the most time playing Gelatinbrain. The accumulated time is about 20 days (excluding preparation and re-solving).
--On average, Michael Gottlieb, of course, spent the least amount of time on each puzzle he solved: 9.8 min.
--Doug Cube, always focusing on the harder puzzles, spent the most time per puzzle: over 2 hours.
--Michael Gottlieb clicked the mouse about 0.55 time per second, the fastest (about one move every other second).
--On the opposite side, Doug Cube and Julian think for 13~14 seconds per move.
--Although Daniel Kwan is leading the fewest move list, GuiltyBystander gets the fewest move per puzzle.
--Although the numbers of total moves per puzzle vary a lot, from 200 to 2000, the numbers of manual moves (by clicking mouse) are relatively close, varying from 200 to 600 (most of us between 300-500).

Note: the last column, macro moves per puzzle, is the ratio between the macro moves and the number of those puzzles involving macro, but not all the puzzles.

Any more stats one wants to see?


Attachments:
Image 001.png
Image 001.png [ 48.87 KiB | Viewed 8638 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Dear schuma, that was a good idea!
I would like to have an overview with news i.e. when I go on the rankings page, the latest changes would be displayed.

with regard to my 3.3.n classification:
It looks like there are a few suggestions for my table. To not impede the discussion I will leave the table as it is.

Andreas Nortmann wrote:
Sadly I can't view 3.3.30
Attachment:
3.3.30.click.PNG
3.3.30.click.PNG [ 11.45 KiB | Viewed 8603 times ]
Attachment:
3.3.30.shiftclick.PNG
3.3.30.shiftclick.PNG [ 9.68 KiB | Viewed 8603 times ]


Last edited by Stef-n on Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:13 pm 
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schuma wrote:
Today I gathered some stats from the ranking page, and computed some numbers like how many moves per second I am using, or how many moves per puzzle I'm using, with or without macro moves. The attached file contains the stats for the current top 20 puzzle solvers. Please go find yourself in it!

<stats>

Any more stats one wants to see?
Thanks for this -- interesting! I haven't had much time for solving this year, so I've been feeling like I've been neglecting GB compared to some other solvers here... but now I feel better seeing that I've spent the most time on solves over the last few years! :lol: I guess around 2-3 days of my total solve time was spent taking rest breaks or, in the case of 1.1.17, sleeping overnight.

I'd like to see a stat for each solver's average moves/record ratio, for example, if someone averages 50% more moves than the least moves record for each puzzle, their ratio would be 1.5. You could do the same thing with the time taken: an average time/record ratio. These ratios should make efficient solvers movewise and/or timewise stand out, even if they don't have so many records. It probably makes sense to exclude puzzles with only one solver from these stats.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:19 pm 
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GuiltyBystander has a bunch of stats about solvers, their move count factor and time factor compared to the best for each puzzle, the number of times they have stollen a record versus had a record stollen, etc. Hopefully he'll chime in :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:30 pm 
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I've been keeping some stats too for a while, here's some other interesting metrics.

Most solves in a day:
Code:
name              date        c
Ryuuzaki          6/21/2010   26
Michael Gottlieb  4/14/2011   19
GuiltyBystander   9/21/2011   17
Mark Segedin      10/15/2011  16
Campbell          7/15/2008   16
Ryuuzaki          6/22/2010   16
honglei           3/3/2012    14
gooby             4/7/2009    13
Bill Gates        3/14/2010   13
AndrewG           7/6/2008    13
Michael Gottlieb  4/13/2011   13
RoseCityRegina    7/19/2012   12
Daniel Kwan       4/16/2012   12
honglei           2/10/2012   11
Michael Gottlieb  3/12/2009   11
schuma            11/2/2010   11
fusion            7/18/2008   11
GuiltyBystander   9/5/2011    11
schuma            3/29/2012   11
honglei           3/22/2012   10
GuiltyBystander   9/24/2011   10
Ryuuzaki          6/20/2010   10
boublez           1/6/2010    10
Michael Gottlieb  5/19/2009   10
Doug Cube         7/6/2008    10
GuiltyBystander   9/29/2011   10
Alaskajoe         5/19/2010   10
schuma            2/11/2010   10

Stolen 1sts. These are solves that were 1st when they were made but aren't anymore. I'm counting move and time records as 2 separate records that can be stolen.
Code:
name              c
schuma            435
Noah Hevey        182
Michael Gottlieb  156
Julian            153
Campbell          126
Doug Cube         126
fusion             83
Agamemnon          80
Mark Segedin       76
Brandon Enright    65
Sjoerd             57
Elwyn Holloway     53
Daniel Devitt      40
Ethan Rosen        23
boublez            21
Katja              20
haru               19
AndrewG            16
Matt Galla         14
Thibaut Kirchner   11
merlintocs         11

schuma wrote:
--Although Daniel Kwan is leading the fewest move list, GuiltyBystander gets the fewest move per puzzle.
lol. This is clearly an artifact that I go for easy puzzles and have been avoiding the harder ones that require more moves.
When comparing moves/times I use a relative metric. For each solve, I score them as solve_moves/record_solve_moves. So if the record is 100 moves, and you did it in 174, it's 1.74 points. When comparing people, I just look at their average.
Code:
#  Name              c   t     m   
1  schuma            632 2.85  3.1 
2  Agamemnon         369 3.17  1.86
3  Brandon Enright   274 6.23  2.97
4  Sjoerd            269 3.97  3.87
5  boublez           237 4.28  3.26
6  Julian            235 6.59  1.79
7  Daniel Kwan       220 4.87  1.08
8  Michael Gottlieb  208 1.1   1.47
9  Mark Segedin      194 3.53  3.27
10 Katja             188 5.34  4.41
11 honglei           169 6.95  2.56
12 Alaskajoe         165 6.82  3.82
13 Doug Cube         148 9.57  2.48
14 Daniel Devitt     143 4.06  3.03
15 GuiltyBystander   129 6.5   2.53
16 sktmrjt           122 6.05  3.14
17 Campbell          120 3.17  2.93
18 Elwyn Holloway    119 5.1   1.71
19 Noah Hevey        114 4.13  3.1 
20 fusion            105 2.16  2.84
21 Percy             99  6.51  3.89
22 haru              89  5.49  1.1 
23 merlintocs        86  35.74 6.42
24 Rmaggedyn         74  2.94  2.86
25 Ryuuzaki          64  3.58  3.23
26 Ethan Rosen       59  3.77  2.31
27 Luke van der Laan 58  4.73  3.95
28 BDH Kee Yen       55  5.43  4.2 
29 Roman Chokler     51  4.68  3.58
30 CFA96349          47  43.27 4.18

Top people for times are Michael Gottlieb (1.1), fusion (2.16), and schuma (2.85).
Top people for moves are Daniel Kwan (1.08), haru (1.1), and Michael Gottlieb (1.47). With this measurement, I'm at a distant 9th with 2.53. (or 13th if you compare to people with only 10 solves).

*edit* This is what Julian is asking for, but I haven't filtered out puzzles with only one solver. If you do, it would only affect schuma and his scores would shoot up to 3.25 / 3.55 for times / moves.

*edit2* @ bmenrigh. Yep, I'm writing this up as you were posting :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:52 pm 
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GuiltyBystander wrote:
I've been keeping some stats too for a while, here's some other interesting metrics.


Interesting! Thank you for sharing these stats! The ranking page is full of data (~2MB) and there are so many interesting ways to look at them.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:33 pm 
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I'm sure this has been asked before, but when I load the page on my mac, it says "The publisher cannot be verified by a trusted source. Code will be treated as unsigned. Name: org.jdesktop.applet.uti.JNLPAppletLauncher. sun.security.ValidatorException: PKIX path validation failed: java.security.cert.CertPathValidatorException: Untrusted certificate: CN=Java Media APIs, OU=Java signed Extensions, OU=Corporate Object Signing, 0=Sun Microsystems Inc"
It then loads the page with everything on it and working... Except the cube!
Also, I am running Safari, Chrome, Opera, and Firefox! They all get the same message!
EDIT: Forgot to mention, running Mountain Lion on a MacBookPro

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:24 am 
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rubixwiz031 wrote:
I'm sure this has been asked before, but when I load the page on my mac, [...] It then loads the page with everything on it and working... Except the cube!
Also, I am running Safari, Chrome, Opera, and Firefox! They all get the same message!
EDIT: Forgot to mention, running Mountain Lion on a MacBookPro
See this thread.

The short answer is that due to a very poor interaction between Java and Browsers it is better to download a local copy of the program and run it rather than trying to launch it from a web browser. That thread has the details for how to do that. Hit me up in IRC if you need help.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Hi, I have read Andreas' last post carefully. He has raised some interesting points about symmetrie-groups. That has tempted me myself to deal a bit with symmetry groups. It has not to do with what he said, but I had an interesting idea:
If you would take any symmetry group such as the cube-wings as axes system for a puzzle, that would perhaps result in new puzzles.
To display this axis-system to me, I have adapted the sphere applet by Jaap a little bit. Here is a screen-shot showing a cube-wings-axis-system:
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.PNG
cube-wing-axis-system.PNG [ 22.98 KiB | Viewed 8373 times ]

Now I let the circles intersect a bit:
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect.PNG
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect.PNG [ 31.16 KiB | Viewed 8373 times ]

You can see, only 360Β° rotations are possible, so the idea was wrong/useless for building new puzzles.


Last edited by Stef-n on Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Stefan Schwalbe wrote:
[...]You can see, only 360Β° rotations are possible, so the idea was so wrong/useless for building new puzzles.
Interesting idea. It's true that only 360Β° rotations are possible for non-jumbling moves but this puzzle as pictured jumbles. If you made the depth of cuts big enough so that there is more interaction between grips and added some unbandaging (where possible) I think you'd have a serious puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Hi Brandon, thank you for your reply. I have tried to outline unbandaging and would like to ask, whether it is what you meant.
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect.unbandaging..PNG
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect.unbandaging..PNG [ 35.47 KiB | Viewed 8360 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:27 pm 
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How about making the marked distances equal? I tried to make a picture of it in SketchUp, and not surprisingly failed.
Attachment:
wingcube.png
wingcube.png [ 23.66 KiB | Viewed 8351 times ]

Attachment:
wingcubecuts.png
wingcubecuts.png [ 56.42 KiB | Viewed 8351 times ]

Clearly the cuts are misaligned, but you hopefully get the idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Stefan Schwalbe wrote:
Hi Brandon, thank you for your reply. I have tried to outline unbandaging and would like to ask, whether it is what you meant.
Hmm this isn't what I was thinking.

First some labels:
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_labels.png
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_labels.png [ 26.77 KiB | Viewed 8350 times ]


What I want to be able to do is at least A, B', A', B where each of these is a jumbling turn by about 59.34Β°.

After A:
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_labels_turn_1.png
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_labels_turn_1.png [ 35.44 KiB | Viewed 8350 times ]


Then after B':
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_labels_turn_2.png
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_labels_turn_2.png [ 41.48 KiB | Viewed 8350 times ]


Now to follow up with A' you need to add this cut to each wedge:
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_min_cut.png
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_min_cut.png [ 26.16 KiB | Viewed 8350 times ]


But you'd actually probably end up adding this cut to each side of the circles which would really open up a ton of jumbling:
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_full_cut.png
cube-wing-axis-system.intersect_full_cut.png [ 26.75 KiB | Viewed 8350 times ]



EDIT:
Oops, I labeled the routine I wanted to do as A B' A B but I really mean the [1,1] jumbling commutator A B' A' B


For what it's worth, the unbandaging that I'm suggesting is exactly like the typical Helicopter Cube unbandaging.

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Last edited by Brandon Enright on Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Coaster1235 wrote:
How about making the marked distances equal? I tried to make a picture of it in SketchUp, and not surprisingly failed.
Image
...

I found the idea very well, and tried to implement it:
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.equaldist.PNG
cube-wing-axis-system.equaldist.PNG [ 27.54 KiB | Viewed 8339 times ]
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.equaldist.1.PNG
cube-wing-axis-system.equaldist.1.PNG [ 31.87 KiB | Viewed 8339 times ]
bmenrigh wrote:
Hmm this isn't what I was thinking.
...
I still need a little time to understand your approach. It is very interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Stefan Schwalbe wrote:
Hi, I have read Andreas' last post carefully. He has raised some interesting points about symmetrie-groups.
I am glad that I could inspire another fruitful (sub)thread).


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Here is another unbandaging try similar to Brandons:
Attachment:
cube-wing-axis-system.unbandaging.sugg1.PNG
cube-wing-axis-system.unbandaging.sugg1.PNG [ 38.44 KiB | Viewed 8276 times ]

Still I can't imagine how that would give a puzzle, but maybe it would.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Again on the subject of the cube-wings axle set with equal distances:
Without unbandaging (wich Brandon proposed),
I asked me the question, would this give a (jumbling) puzzle?
Attachment:
dirset.cubewings.sphere.PNG
dirset.cubewings.sphere.PNG [ 30.33 KiB | Viewed 8119 times ]
maybe.

I created an image with POV-Ray for illustrative purposes, (i was so glad about it, when it was finished, because I used POV-Ray for the first time and it turned out to be pretty easy). let me show it to you.
Attachment:
dirset.cubewings.PNG
dirset.cubewings.PNG [ 73.2 KiB | Viewed 8119 times ]
I'm not sure about it. Is it possible to include it into gelatinbrain's virtual polyhedra?


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Looks great. Are you willing to post the source to your POV-Ray model?

I still think that without unbandaging the scrambleability of this puzzle is very limited.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:54 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
Looks great. Are you willing to post the source to your POV-Ray model?
...

Yeah, I can:
Code:
//used a scene template from POV-Ray menu:
//Insert>Scene templates>Basic scene

#include "colors.inc"
#version 3.6;


global_settings {
  assumed_gamma 1.0
}

// ----------------------------------------

camera {
  location  <0.4, 2.0, -6.0>
  direction 1.5*z
  right     4/3*x
  look_at   <0.0, 0.0,  0.0>
}

sky_sphere {
  pigment {
    gradient y
    color_map {
      [0.0 color blue 0.6]
      [1.0 color rgb 1]
    }
  }
}

light_source {
  <0, 0, 0>            // light's position (translated below)
  color rgb <1, 1, 1>  // light's color
  translate <-30, 30, -30>
}


// -------------------------------------------


#declare mainobj=
box {-1,1 pigment {White}};


#macro ConeShell (dir,retobj)

    #declare Base_Point=dir;
    #declare Base_Radius=1.5;
    #declare Cap_Point=<0,0,0>;
    #declare Cap_Radius=0.0;
    #declare translation=dir*0.02; //affects the thickness of the shell
   
    #declare retobj=cone{
      Base_Point, Base_Radius, Cap_Point, Cap_Radius
    }
    #declare retobj=difference{
        object{retobj}
        object{retobj translate translation}
    }


#end

#declare dwing=0.8284271247461900976033774484194;
//the cube-wing-axle-set with equal distances
#declare dirset=array [24][3] {
    { dwing,2,-2},
    {-dwing,2,-2},
    {-2,2,-dwing},
    {-2,2, dwing},
    {-dwing,2, 2},
    { dwing,2, 2},
    { 2,2, dwing},
    { 2,2,-dwing},
   
    { 2,dwing,-2},
    {-2,dwing,-2},
    {-2,dwing, 2},
    { 2,dwing, 2},
    { 2,-dwing,-2},
    {-2,-dwing,-2},
    {-2,-dwing, 2},
    { 2,-dwing, 2},
   
    { dwing,-2,-2},
    {-dwing,-2,-2},
    {-2,-2,-dwing},
    {-2,-2, dwing},
    {-dwing,-2, 2},
    { dwing,-2, 2},
    { 2,-2, dwing},
    { 2,-2,-dwing},
}


//initialization values (mean just nothing) but I need the splitcone object for the macro's return
#declare splitcone=cone{<0,0,0>,0,<1,0,0>,0}


#declare Count=0;
#while (Count<24)
    ConeShell(<dirset[Count][0],dirset[Count][1],dirset[Count][2]>,splitcone);

    //here the cone shells split the cube
    #declare mainobj=
    difference{
        object{mainobj}
        object {splitcone pigment{BlueViolet}}
    };

#declare Count=Count+1;
#end



//show mainobj
object { mainobj
    rotate y*30
    rotate x*-20
}
bmenrigh wrote:
I still think that without unbandaging the scrambleability of this puzzle is very limited.
I must try it, when I see it I will believe :wink:


Last edited by Stef-n on Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:06 pm 
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I've just updated both java and win32 versions.
Non new puzzles. I only disabled the "submit" button.
The scores sent by old programs arrive me.
But the scoreboard updating is temporarilly suspended.
Please keep the certificates until I find a new solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Hey Gelatinbrain, I didn't notice your mention of C++ source code but I just saw your site with the link :D

I had to fix two typeos in your Qt project file ("qt/mainpanelayout.cpp" -> "qt/mainpanellayout.cpp" and "qt/gramewindow.h" -> "qt/framewindow.h") but after that it compiled cleanly :shock:
Attachment:
gb_native_qt.png
gb_native_qt.png [ 39.85 KiB | Viewed 7807 times ]


I see you're using anti-aliasing to draw the puzzle. It looks way better than the Java version.

The only "bugs" I can spot right now are a slightly different color scheme and the MagicPolyhedra binary uses 100% of the CPU at all times. Perhaps you need to yield() or sleep() in the event loop?

Just your zzz/* code is 90,000 lines of code. Have you been maintaining both a Java and C++ version all along? I'm amazed that you've been able to keep two branches mostly in sync with each other.

I have some ideas / a proposal for hosting and a scoreboard but I'll follow up with a PM about that a bit later.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Thank you for testing, Brandon. :D

bmenrigh wrote:
I see you're using anti-aliasing to draw the puzzle. It looks way better than the Java version.

I don't do anything special. Sounds a good news anyway. :)
bmenrigh wrote:
the MagicPolyhedra binary uses 100% of the CPU at all times. Perhaps you need to yield() or sleep() in the event loop?

The event loop is not in my code. It's included in the Qt framework. But I will see what I can do.
Do you think that's why my computer roars like a vacuum cleaner when I run my program? :lol:
Maybe it's another problem...

bmenrigh wrote:
I have some ideas / a proposal for hosting and a scoreboard but I'll follow up with a PM about that a bit later.

In the future I'm planning to keep only the sources on my server, and leave
anyone free to use them.
This way I can concentrate only on programming.


For those who want to compile and run on Mac,
here is how to create the project for Mac. Simply copying project files may not work.
Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:32 pm 
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gelatinbrain brought new puzzles to us. Thanks!

I found a bug in the latest .jar:

After I execute a macro, the "move" textbox will not display any moves I made by clicking any more. Can anyone reproduce this bug?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:14 am 
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Gelatinbrain, thanks for four new puzzles. I just want to let you know that I'm with you: I've solved all the new 2.9.* puzzles up to 2.9.16, and have kept all the certificate codes. When will the scoreboard be updated? Do you need any help?

By the way, the bug of move textbox is still not completely fixed. Thanks anyway!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:45 pm 
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schuma wrote:
When will the scoreboard be updated? Do you need any help?

I'm not sure when I can restart the service.
But I can do an exception for you. Send your certificates and I will process them manually.
Otherwise you can help me by posting your method here. :)
schuma wrote:
By the way, the bug of move textbox is still not completely fixed. Thanks anyway!

This doesn't reproduce on my machine. Maybe it's a Mac-only problem. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:59 am 
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I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I have a question about the Magic Polyhedra / Gelatin Brain applet. How do you use macros? I cannot find any tutorials for it and Google was no help. Also, why is the Scrambles box always blank?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:13 am 
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themathkid wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I have a question about the Magic Polyhedra / Gelatin Brain applet. How do you use macros? I cannot find any tutorials for it and Google was no help. Also, why is the Scrambles box always blank?

You can perform a macro via copy and paste.

As you perform moves you'll see them get listed in the "Moves" box. You can select them and copy them out. For example:
Code:
/*000000*/R,
/*000001*/U,
/*000002*/R',
/*000003*/U,
/*000004*/R,
/*000005*/U'2,
/*000006*/R',
/*000007*/U'2,


You can then paste those moves into the Input box and hit the "<<<<<" button to apply them again. The input box will ignore the /*comment*/ stuff.

The input box also accepts [] grouping characters so you can do [U, F]. Also, it accepts []xN so you can do [U, F]x104 to apply the 2-move sequence 104 times.

I wrote a quick and dirty script at http://www.brandonenright.net/cgi-bin/gb_util.pl for processing move sequences. If you want to do a lot of solving or share move sequences with others it should save you some time.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:33 am 
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Thanks, bmenrigh.

Is there a good way to handle slice moves? The output appears to be the same for a slice or outer turn. For example, on the 4x4x4, both r and R turns produce an output of R in the Moves list. Very strange.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:42 am 
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themathkid wrote:
Thanks, bmenrigh.
You're welcome :-) I know my username can be cumbersome but go ahead and call me Brandon.

themathkid wrote:
Is there a good way to handle slice moves? The output appears to be the same for a slice or outer turn. For example, on the 4x4x4, both r and R turns produce an output of R in the Moves list. Very strange.
Gelatinbrain uses a slice bitmask. The outer turning portion is bit 1, the first slice is bit 2, next is bit 4, etc.

So if you want to turn the R slice you'd use R&2. If you want to turn the outer face and inner slice, you can do R&3, etc. Here is a contrived example for 3.1.5: [R'&2, U'&2, R&2, U&2, R', U'&2, R'&2, U&2, R&3]

Personally I think the slice bitmask is superior to R and r being different because it is more flexible across a wide variety of puzzles. CaSe SensITIvitY tends to be an annoying property for free-form input.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Today gelatinbrain gave us a very special puzzle, 9.1.1. I took a brief look at it and I don't know what that is.... It seems like dragging it not only changes the orientation of the whole puzzle, but also does some permutation to it.

Does anyone have any idea about what's going on?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Based on the name I think it's a 3D version of this group:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSL(2,7)

I spent 20 minutes trying to understand how it's interconnected but I still have questions. The group is non-abelian so I'm not sure if every move sequence has a short inverse. I think I found any easy 3-cycle but after performing it I couldn't find a view that showed me all three pieces it moved.

EDIT:
I did more testing. It seems like the dual of a 3D solid where each face has 7 sides. Because there isn't any normal solid with 7-gon faces Gelatinbrain has folded in two of the of the triangles around each vertex to make it look like an Icosahedron.

There are 4 folded regions and each of these is missing a triangle so to show that triangle for each region there is a tetrahedron in the center made up of the 4 missing triangles.

A pure [3,1] 3-cycle is trivial: [B, A, B', V, B, A', B', V']

I would describe this puzzle as being similar to a face-turning dodecahedron. Only instead of 12 faces there are 24(?) and instead of each face being modulo 5 they are modulo 7. The difficulty in solving is going to be predominately from the view and piece finding rather than some of the other hard twisty puzzle properties.

There is probably a MagicTile equivalent to this puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:59 pm 
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schuma wrote:
Does anyone have any idea about what's going on?

This is the closed form of klein's quartic mapped on a tetrahedron.
Analogue of platonic solid with 24 heptagonal faces and 56 vertices.
I've got the idea from this site.
I think the animation on this page is the only way to map the klein's quartic onto 3D without deforming the connectivity.

I mapped all vertices to equilateral triangles. So there are inevitably broken edges.
If you map the klein's quartic on hyperbolic plane, the pieces close to the rim become too small. And it's difficult to change the orientation of the puzzle.
If may method is not the best, I think it's a good compromise.

bmenrigh wrote:
tetrahedron in the center made up of the 4 missing triangles.
.

On the opposite of each tetrahedral vertex, there's a small triangle.

Attachment:
temp.gif
temp.gif [ 19.96 KiB | Viewed 6696 times ]



Later I will post another image to explain the notation.:)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:00 am 
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Brandon and gelatinbrain, thank you for your explanation. Now I understand it.

In MagicTile there's a face-turning {7,3}, which has centers, edges and corners just like 3x3x3 or Megaminx. Here, 9.1.1 is the corner-only version of the face-turning {7,3}. The algorithms are similar to those for 2x2x2 or kilominx.

Of course the visualizations are quite different: the one in MagicTile is drawn on a hyperbolic plane and the one in GB is folded in Euclidean space. I agree to gelatinbrain that without hyperbolic panning, the puzzle in hyperbolic plane is pretty hard to deal with. This was the case in the first edition of MagicTile. Thanks for hard work of Roice Nelson, the second version of MagicTile has hyperbolic panning. So it is pretty convenient now.

I played 9.1.1 for a while, and I found that piece finding was harder than in MagicTile. Many triangles are folded inside. Sometimes dragging can reveal them, but sometimes the destination is lost. Well, that is the challenge of this puzzle and I believe I'll swallow it someday.

Another thing is, ideally there should be 24 colors. But there are only eight colors on 9.1.1. I believe they are arranged in a way that no two triangles are identical (or even mirrored). But still, it's a bit tricky for piece finding.

Gelatinbrain, congratulations for making this version of Klein's quartic!! Don't make the next puzzles of this category too hard... I really can't find pieces....

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:13 am 
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I just solved the new puzzles Gelatinbrain added, 1.10.1, 1.11.* and 1.12.*. They are not very complicated, but some of them, that is, 1.11.2 and 1.11.3, show interesting orientation cases and parity issues. I enjoy solving them, and recommend them to everyone!

Gelatinbrain, nice job!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:20 pm 
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I added some new interesting puzzles(3.25.1~3.25.3).
3.25.1 and 3.25.3 contain as subgroup 3x3x3 and 2x2x2 in the same way as 3x3x3 and 2x2x2 contain as subgroup 90ΒΊ turns-only cubes.

Attachment:
twisting 1.gif
twisting 1.gif [ 43.16 KiB | Viewed 3935 times ]

Attachment:
twisting 3.gif
twisting 3.gif [ 20.99 KiB | Viewed 3935 times ]

Attachment:
scrambled 1.gif
scrambled 1.gif [ 20.86 KiB | Viewed 3935 times ]

Attachment:
scrambled 3.gif
scrambled 3.gif [ 23.49 KiB | Viewed 3935 times ]


3.25.1 consists of 26 interchangeable pieces each with 24 orientations per place.
3.25.3 is made of 26x24 interchangeable pieces forming together a single orbit.

If my guess is right, 3.25.3 is isomorphic to the symmetric group of degree 624.
To verify this, I wrote a java program to generate a gap code.
Unfortunately I had to abort the program after running more than one hour, because it slows down other programs. I have no idea how long it will take to complete.
Here is the code, in case someone wants to try.
Code:
g := Group(   
(1,4,7,10,13,16,19,22)#0 0
(2,5,8,11,14,17,20,23)#0 1
(3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24)#0 2
(145,373,201,421,289,481,233,385)#0 3
(146,374,202,422,290,482,234,386)#0 4
(147,375,203,423,291,483,235,387)#0 5
(148,376,204,424,292,484,236,388)#0 6
(149,377,205,425,293,485,237,389)#0 7
(150,378,206,426,294,486,238,390)#0 8
(151,379,207,427,295,487,239,391)#0 9
(152,380,208,428,296,488,240,392)#0 10
(153,381,209,429,297,489,217,393)#0 11
(154,382,210,430,298,490,218,394)#0 12
(155,383,211,431,299,491,219,395)#0 13
(156,384,212,432,300,492,220,396)#0 14
(157,361,213,409,301,493,221,397)#0 15
(158,362,214,410,302,494,222,398)#0 16
(159,363,215,411,303,495,223,399)#0 17
(160,364,216,412,304,496,224,400)#0 18
(161,365,193,413,305,497,225,401)#0 19
(162,366,194,414,306,498,226,402)#0 20
(163,367,195,415,307,499,227,403)#0 21
(164,368,196,416,308,500,228,404)#0 22
(165,369,197,417,309,501,229,405)#0 23
(166,370,198,418,310,502,230,406)#0 24
(167,371,199,419,311,503,231,407)#0 25
(168,372,200,420,312,504,232,408)#0 26
(349,61,517,97,613,79,445,43)#0 27
(350,62,518,98,614,80,446,44)#0 28
(351,63,519,99,615,81,447,45)#0 29
(352,64,520,100,616,82,448,46)#0 30
(353,65,521,101,617,83,449,47)#0 31
(354,66,522,102,618,84,450,48)#0 32
(355,67,523,103,619,85,451,25)#0 33
(356,68,524,104,620,86,452,26)#0 34
(357,69,525,105,621,87,453,27)#0 35
(358,70,526,106,622,88,454,28)#0 36
(359,71,527,107,623,89,455,29)#0 37
(360,72,528,108,624,90,456,30)#0 38
,
(25,28,31,34,37,40,43,46)#1 0
(26,29,32,35,38,41,44,47)#1 1
(27,30,33,36,39,42,45,48)#1 2
(153,397,225,445,265,529,185,337)#1 3
(154,398,226,446,266,530,186,338)#1 4
(155,399,227,447,267,531,187,339)#1 5
(156,400,228,448,268,532,188,340)#1 6
(157,401,229,449,269,533,189,341)#1 7
(158,402,230,450,270,534,190,342)#1 8
(159,403,231,451,271,535,191,343)#1 9
(160,404,232,452,272,536,192,344)#1 10
(161,405,233,453,273,537,169,345)#1 11
(162,406,234,454,274,538,170,346)#1 12
(163,407,235,455,275,539,171,347)#1 13
(164,408,236,456,276,540,172,348)#1 14
(165,385,237,433,277,541,173,349)#1 15
(166,386,238,434,278,542,174,350)#1 16
(167,387,239,435,279,543,175,351)#1 17
(168,388,240,436,280,544,176,352)#1 18
(145,389,217,437,281,545,177,353)#1 19
(146,390,218,438,282,546,178,354)#1 20
(147,391,219,439,283,547,179,355)#1 21
(148,392,220,440,284,548,180,356)#1 22
(149,393,221,441,285,549,181,357)#1 23
(150,394,222,442,286,550,182,358)#1 24
(151,395,223,443,287,551,183,359)#1 25
(152,396,224,444,288,552,184,360)#1 26
(373,13,493,73,589,127,469,67)#1 27
(374,14,494,74,590,128,470,68)#1 28
(375,15,495,75,591,129,471,69)#1 29
(376,16,496,76,592,130,472,70)#1 30
(377,17,497,77,593,131,473,71)#1 31
(378,18,498,78,594,132,474,72)#1 32
(379,19,499,79,595,133,475,49)#1 33
(380,20,500,80,596,134,476,50)#1 34
(381,21,501,81,597,135,477,51)#1 35
(382,22,502,82,598,136,478,52)#1 36
(383,23,503,83,599,137,479,53)#1 37
(384,24,504,84,600,138,480,54)#1 38
,
(49,52,55,58,61,64,67,70)#2 0
(50,53,56,59,62,65,68,71)#2 1
(51,54,57,60,63,66,69,72)#2 2
(161,349,177,469,241,505,209,361)#2 3
(162,350,178,470,242,506,210,362)#2 4
(163,351,179,471,243,507,211,363)#2 5
(164,352,180,472,244,508,212,364)#2 6
(165,353,181,473,245,509,213,365)#2 7
(166,354,182,474,246,510,214,366)#2 8
(167,355,183,475,247,511,215,367)#2 9
(168,356,184,476,248,512,216,368)#2 10
(145,357,185,477,249,513,193,369)#2 11
(146,358,186,478,250,514,194,370)#2 12
(147,359,187,479,251,515,195,371)#2 13
(148,360,188,480,252,516,196,372)#2 14
(149,337,189,457,253,517,197,373)#2 15
(150,338,190,458,254,518,198,374)#2 16
(151,339,191,459,255,519,199,375)#2 17
(152,340,192,460,256,520,200,376)#2 18
(153,341,169,461,257,521,201,377)#2 19
(154,342,170,462,258,522,202,378)#2 20
(155,343,171,463,259,523,203,379)#2 21
(156,344,172,464,260,524,204,380)#2 22
(157,345,173,465,261,525,205,381)#2 23
(158,346,174,466,262,526,206,382)#2 24
(159,347,175,467,263,527,207,383)#2 25
(160,348,176,468,264,528,208,384)#2 26
(397,37,541,121,565,103,421,19)#2 27
(398,38,542,122,566,104,422,20)#2 28
(399,39,543,123,567,105,423,21)#2 29
(400,40,544,124,568,106,424,22)#2 30
(401,41,545,125,569,107,425,23)#2 31
(402,42,546,126,570,108,426,24)#2 32
(403,43,547,127,571,109,427,1)#2 33
(404,44,548,128,572,110,428,2)#2 34
(405,45,549,129,573,111,429,3)#2 35
(406,46,550,130,574,112,430,4)#2 36
(407,47,551,131,575,113,431,5)#2 37
(408,48,552,132,576,114,432,6)#2 38
,
(73,76,79,82,85,88,91,94)#3 0
(74,77,80,83,86,89,92,95)#3 1
(75,78,81,84,87,90,93,96)#3 2
(321,577,273,433,217,493,305,613)#3 3
(322,578,274,434,218,494,306,614)#3 4
(323,579,275,435,219,495,307,615)#3 5
(324,580,276,436,220,496,308,616)#3 6
(325,581,277,437,221,497,309,617)#3 7
(326,582,278,438,222,498,310,618)#3 8
(327,583,279,439,223,499,311,619)#3 9
(328,584,280,440,224,500,312,620)#3 10
(329,585,281,441,225,501,289,621)#3 11
(330,586,282,442,226,502,290,622)#3 12
(331,587,283,443,227,503,291,623)#3 13
(332,588,284,444,228,504,292,624)#3 14
(333,589,285,445,229,481,293,601)#3 15
(334,590,286,446,230,482,294,602)#3 16
(335,591,287,447,231,483,295,603)#3 17
(336,592,288,448,232,484,296,604)#3 18
(313,593,265,449,233,485,297,605)#3 19
(314,594,266,450,234,486,298,606)#3 20
(315,595,267,451,235,487,299,607)#3 21
(316,596,268,452,236,488,300,608)#3 22
(317,597,269,453,237,489,301,609)#3 23
(318,598,270,454,238,490,302,610)#3 24
(319,599,271,455,239,491,303,611)#3 25
(320,600,272,456,240,492,304,612)#3 26
(553,133,529,25,385,7,409,115)#3 27
(554,134,530,26,386,8,410,116)#3 28
(555,135,531,27,387,9,411,117)#3 29
(556,136,532,28,388,10,412,118)#3 30
(557,137,533,29,389,11,413,119)#3 31
(558,138,534,30,390,12,414,120)#3 32
(559,139,535,31,391,13,415,97)#3 33
(560,140,536,32,392,14,416,98)#3 34
(561,141,537,33,393,15,417,99)#3 35
(562,142,538,34,394,16,418,100)#3 36
(563,143,539,35,395,17,419,101)#3 37
(564,144,540,36,396,18,420,102)#3 38
,
(97,100,103,106,109,112,115,118)#4 0
(98,101,104,107,110,113,116,119)#4 1
(99,102,105,108,111,114,117,120)#4 2
(329,601,297,409,193,517,257,565)#4 3
(330,602,298,410,194,518,258,566)#4 4
(331,603,299,411,195,519,259,567)#4 5
(332,604,300,412,196,520,260,568)#4 6
(333,605,301,413,197,521,261,569)#4 7
(334,606,302,414,198,522,262,570)#4 8
(335,607,303,415,199,523,263,571)#4 9
(336,608,304,416,200,524,264,572)#4 10
(313,609,305,417,201,525,241,573)#4 11
(314,610,306,418,202,526,242,574)#4 12
(315,611,307,419,203,527,243,575)#4 13
(316,612,308,420,204,528,244,576)#4 14
(317,613,309,421,205,505,245,553)#4 15
(318,614,310,422,206,506,246,554)#4 16
(319,615,311,423,207,507,247,555)#4 17
(320,616,312,424,208,508,248,556)#4 18
(321,617,289,425,209,509,249,557)#4 19
(322,618,290,426,210,510,250,558)#4 20
(323,619,291,427,211,511,251,559)#4 21
(324,620,292,428,212,512,252,560)#4 22
(325,621,293,429,213,513,253,561)#4 23
(326,622,294,430,214,514,254,562)#4 24
(327,623,295,431,215,515,255,563)#4 25
(328,624,296,432,216,516,256,564)#4 26
(577,85,481,1,361,55,457,139)#4 27
(578,86,482,2,362,56,458,140)#4 28
(579,87,483,3,363,57,459,141)#4 29
(580,88,484,4,364,58,460,142)#4 30
(581,89,485,5,365,59,461,143)#4 31
(582,90,486,6,366,60,462,144)#4 32
(583,91,487,7,367,61,463,121)#4 33
(584,92,488,8,368,62,464,122)#4 34
(585,93,489,9,369,63,465,123)#4 35
(586,94,490,10,370,64,466,124)#4 36
(587,95,491,11,371,65,467,125)#4 37
(588,96,492,12,372,66,468,126)#4 38
,
(121,124,127,130,133,136,139,142)#5 0
(122,125,128,131,134,137,140,143)#5 1
(123,126,129,132,135,138,141,144)#5 2
(313,553,249,457,169,541,281,589)#5 3
(314,554,250,458,170,542,282,590)#5 4
(315,555,251,459,171,543,283,591)#5 5
(316,556,252,460,172,544,284,592)#5 6
(317,557,253,461,173,545,285,593)#5 7
(318,558,254,462,174,546,286,594)#5 8
(319,559,255,463,175,547,287,595)#5 9
(320,560,256,464,176,548,288,596)#5 10
(321,561,257,465,177,549,265,597)#5 11
(322,562,258,466,178,550,266,598)#5 12
(323,563,259,467,179,551,267,599)#5 13
(324,564,260,468,180,552,268,600)#5 14
(325,565,261,469,181,529,269,577)#5 15
(326,566,262,470,182,530,270,578)#5 16
(327,567,263,471,183,531,271,579)#5 17
(328,568,264,472,184,532,272,580)#5 18
(329,569,241,473,185,533,273,581)#5 19
(330,570,242,474,186,534,274,582)#5 20
(331,571,243,475,187,535,275,583)#5 21
(332,572,244,476,188,536,276,584)#5 22
(333,573,245,477,189,537,277,585)#5 23
(334,574,246,478,190,538,278,586)#5 24
(335,575,247,479,191,539,279,587)#5 25
(336,576,248,480,192,540,280,588)#5 26
(601,109,505,49,337,31,433,91)#5 27
(602,110,506,50,338,32,434,92)#5 28
(603,111,507,51,339,33,435,93)#5 29
(604,112,508,52,340,34,436,94)#5 30
(605,113,509,53,341,35,437,95)#5 31
(606,114,510,54,342,36,438,96)#5 32
(607,115,511,55,343,37,439,73)#5 33
(608,116,512,56,344,38,440,74)#5 34
(609,117,513,57,345,39,441,75)#5 35
(610,118,514,58,346,40,442,76)#5 36
(611,119,515,59,347,41,443,77)#5 37
);
g = SymmetricGroup(624);

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:26 am 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
If my guess is right, 3.25.3 is isomorphic to the symmetric group of degree 624.
To verify this, I wrote a java program to generate a gap code.
Unfortunately I had to abort the program after running more than one hour, because it slows down other programs. I have no idea how long it will take to complete.
It took my machine 11 hours 58 minutes of CPU time to finish. Unfortunately the statement "g = SymmetricGroup(624);" doesn't print anything. I'm sitting at the gap> prompt and I'm not sure how to retrieve the previous result. I don't know if the comparison yielded true or false. Rather than spend a bunch of time guessing commands and possibly wiping out the result, I'll await insight from anyone that knows.

Edit: running a second GAP process to check for the Size(g); reports a size of 624!. Since it only has 624 stickers(proper word?) I think that implies it has to be the same as the symmetric group S_624.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:34 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
It took my machine 11 hours 58 minutes of CPU time to finish. Unfortunately the statement "g = SymmetricGroup(624);" doesn't print anything.

It's strange. :? Normally, SymmetricGroup function shows true or false.
bmenrigh wrote:
Edit: running a second GAP process to check for the Size(g); reports a size of 624!. Since it only has 624 stickers(proper word?) I think that implies it has to be the same as the symmetric group S_624.

I think you are right. Thanks. :)
I guessed so simply because this puzzles has only one orbit in which all peaces can be parmuted. and there's no piece orientation problem.
I'm not sure if my terminology is correct. I hope you understand what I say.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:45 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
It took my machine 11 hours 58 minutes of CPU time to finish. Unfortunately the statement "g = SymmetricGroup(624);" doesn't print anything.

It's strange. :? Normally, SymmetricGroup function shows true or false.
Yeah it seems to be the behavior when you input things via a file. So I put your script in a file and then did:

$ ./gap.sh -m 24G -a 24G gb_new.g

But when you're running commands via a file, for some reason the results of functions don't get printed. So if I add a Size(g) it'll complete but no number will be output. I have to explicitly do:

Print("Size: ", Size(g), "\n");

I'll re-run your code with a print statement so that we can see the "true" text :D .

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Alright:

Code:
brenrigh@omega ~/gap4r5/bin $ ./gap.sh -m 24G -a 24G gb_new.g
β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”   GAP, Version 4.5.7 of 14-Dec-2012 (free software, GPL)
β”‚  GAP  β”‚   http://www.gap-system.org
β””β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜   Architecture: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu-gcc-default64
Libs used:  gmp, readline
Loading the library and packages ...
Components: trans 1.0, prim 2.1, small* 1.0, id* 1.0
Packages:   AClib 1.2, Alnuth 3.0.0, AutPGrp 1.5, CRISP 1.3.5, Cryst 4.1.10,
             CrystCat 1.1.6, CTblLib 1.2.1, FactInt 1.5.3, FGA 1.2.0,
             GAPDoc 1.5.1, IRREDSOL 1.2.1, LAGUNA 3.6.1, Polenta 1.3.1,
             Polycyclic 2.10.1, RadiRoot 2.6, ResClasses 3.3.0, Sophus 1.23,
             TomLib 1.2.2
Try '?help' for help. See also  '?copyright' and  '?authors'
Comparison: true


624 pieces can reach all 624! positions. That's going to make the puzzle something of a marathon solve.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Thank you Brandon! How much cpu time it took ?

bmenrigh wrote:
624 pieces can reach all 624! positions. That's going to make the puzzle something of a marathon solve.



Or it's quite trivial if you don't care the move count. All you need is an infinitely fast computer to search 2 piece swap algorithms. :)

Since this puzzle has 6 sets of 104 identical pieces,
essentially different patterns should be much smaller than 624!.
I don't know how to calculate it. I'm afraid GAP (or the group theory) is not very helpful for this.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:52 pm 
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gelatinbrain wrote:
Thank you Brandon! How much cpu time it took ?

Only 12 CPU-hours. The delay in my post was because I had the results sitting on my machine but got too busy and forgot to check them.

gelatinbrain wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
624 pieces can reach all 624! positions. That's going to make the puzzle something of a marathon solve.

Or it's quite trivial if you don't care the move count. All you need is an infinitely fast computer to search 2 piece swap algorithms. :)

With an infinitely fast computer I think I'd just search for god's algorithm :lol:


gelatinbrain wrote:
Since this puzzle has 6 sets of 104 identical pieces,
essentially different patterns should be much smaller than 624!.
I don't know how to calculate it. I'm afraid GAP (or the group theory) is not very helpful for this.

I don't know GAP well enough to do this but IIRC it involves using Stabilizer(). In any case, if you have 6 groups of 104 identical pieces the calculation would be:
Code:
624! / ((104!)^6)
% = 8229868507923904467166615739633587022410331593449766838133467577158
76561391916940104660090811407842884289012995637826142543927140360466950
63700245403261155971491922813058660509785730725745135204485961635619683
37275524664257944667494657140748078774078086136711543305637470604014287
56283250721582770007207689559382278444487164424974643517727745790263359
71763822863315474914484461866279305651427228862978126381510230177197848
031757472018388404324313306951964857965582908089600000000


Furthermore, since this is a twisty puzzle with "cubic" symmetry and you can put the cube into any orientation, that number should be reduced by another factor of 24:
Code:
? (624! / ((104!)^6)) / 24
% = 34291118783016268613194232248473279260043048306040695158889448238161
523391329872504360837117141993453512042208151576089272663630848352789609
875102251358814988121634505441108545744054469060473001869150681508201405
314686101074769447894404753116994891992025569631430440156127516726198178
468780065948750300320398307594935186965184373943479905322741260973321568
259526381447881035192444283044021428012026240885992295929240499103346565
61334099516846846387789665202415232621170400000000


Or roughly ~10^477 essentially unique positions.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Hi guys,

I just restarted solving the gelatinbrain puzzles. I wasn't playing it from September to November because I was too busy. I was catching up with the new puzzles. Everything is done except for 3.25.3 and 3.25.3b... They are just too huge. I am using the save feature to use pieces of my commute time to solve it. The total solving time of 3.25.3 has been over four hours, and I expect finishing it within five hours in total. And I have to solve 3.25.3b ...

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:48 pm 
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And I just lost the latest progress on 3.25.3. The recent save file has only a few byte large and does not contain any information. Now I'm back to the last save file that works. Just lost 2.5 hours of work... :(

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:04 pm 
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It's been a while since I've solved a GB puzzle... But recent events had me finally working out a solution to 3.5.1, and I decided to also take it the next step and solve 3.7.2 as well while I was at it...

My strategy for solving 3.7.2 was the same as Julian's, to reduce it to 3.5.1, which is then reduced to 3.3.7, then solved with my method as described on pages 60 and 61 of this thread.

Reducing 3.7.2 to 3.5.1: 146 moves

Pair as many triangles as you can intuitively using 2x2 / little-chop turns to setup for skewb turns. Make any skewb turn that fixes more pairs than it breaks... Then use [URF,L,D,R,D',L',URF'] to fix the rest (does a double 3-cycle w.r.t. pairings). Setting up for this is not as difficult as it sounds.

Reducing 3.5.1 to 3.3.7: 53 moves

Once again, pair as many triangles as you can intuitively, using little chop turns to setup for 2x2 turns. You should be able to get more than half of them paired this way. Pair the rest with [U,BR,U'], which does a 2-2 swap w.r.t. pairings. Setting up for this one is straightforward once you've done it a few times.

Solve the reduced 3.3.7: 66 moves

(146 + 53 + 66 = 265 total moves)

All in all, 3.7.2 was pretty satisfying to solve because all 3 steps with this method are not alg-heavy. I think the move count with this method could go as low as 200-220ish with a bit more effort and luck... I was still working out my solution method while in the middle of this solve.

Attachment:
3.7.2-265moves.jpg
3.7.2-265moves.jpg [ 126.34 KiB | Viewed 2196 times ]


EDIT: FYI, my records for 3.5.1 are now 92 moves (39 move reduction + 53 move little chop solve) and 6:34 on time (with 149 moves).


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:29 am 
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Nice job with 3.7.2, Daniel! I wondered how low you would go when you got around to solving it. Pairing pieces intuitively has always been a weak point for me; after just a few moves I can't see any further and then I switch to set routines that are less efficient. Sometime I shall try to improve my move count using your tips.


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