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 Post subject: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:01 pm 
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Reference thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&p=277036#p277036

I noticed the conversation wanted to get going on this topic, and not wanting to derail Juanan’s Marketplace thread, I thought I’d start this. IMO it is not Juanan’s fault that some people have been paying up to these prices for a Dogic. At least his offer allows people who `really want one more than anything else in the world` to get it. I’m sure he will get a good price in the current market, and I hope he does.

But, all that aside (and no offense intended to Juanan or his sale, this is just general conversation now):

First I want to make a comparison that I’m sure most people here are aware of anyway. The Dogic is just the Corner's Only Megaminx version of the type of Crazy 2x2 (not the full-functional 0 version) that is available for around $10 (comparison photo included). Incidentally Tony Fisher has also said that the Dogic even has mechanism problems.

Let’s take a look at some other puzzles from the recent posts. What else could you get for that kind of cash (I’m sure we’ve all thought it)? The list is not comprehensive, just an example, (I tried to include a range of designers and things that are current and readily available). All of these puzzles are individually cheaper than a Dogic (and IMO much more interesting):

Food for thought? Perhaps Uwe needs to fire up the old moulds before we all go crazy (SOS Uwe :o ).

Cheers,
Burgo.


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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:30 pm 
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The Meffert's Dogic turns quite poorly (I don't know about the original) and would cause tons of folks to complain if they were to buy one expecting a great puzzle. That combined with people hating colored plastic makes for a poor puzzle to produce again. It really does need a redesign.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:49 pm 
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That's an interesting point Brandon. I wonder if people would even buy it with redesign though, isn't the `Classic Dogic`look what they want? Like with the Astrolabacus. There would be no relief in the bidding wars to own the current ones.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:52 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
The Meffert's Dogic turns quite poorly (I don't know about the original) and would cause tons of folks to complain if they were to buy one expecting a great puzzle. That combined with people hating colored plastic makes for a poor puzzle to produce again. It really does need a redesign.


Uwe gives the reason here- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Wko-AVkMQ

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:01 pm 
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Burgo wrote:
That's an interesting point Brandon. I wonder if people would even buy it with redesign though, isn't the `Classic Dogic`look what they want? Like with the Astrolabacus. There would be no relief in the bidding wars to own the current ones.

Cheers,
Burgo.
The folks that really want a Dogic because they want to play with it and solve it probably aren't willing to pay more than $50 for it. For them a redesign that used stickers and turned well would be a great boon. For the collections that really want a Dogic because it's a Dogic, the redesign wouldn't make any difference. The auction price would stay relatively high.

This isn't to say I want Uwe or anyone else to do a redesign of the Dogic and another production run. I want the focus to be on new twisty puzzles. The Dogic is pretty boring.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:04 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
The Dogic is pretty boring.
Agreed.

A couple of interesting points from that video:

Uwe said “Only 150 people have reserved it in the last 2 years” (Maybe some of that is because Meffert has said that he won’t remake it). But there you go: if you want one.. get down to Meffert’s and reserve it.

4000 have been made. At $350 each, that’s $1.4 million worth of Dogics going around.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:16 am 
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Burgo wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
4000 have been made. At $350 each, that’s $1.4 million worth of Dogics going around.
Not quite. I bought a Mefferts 20 colour dogic when he re-introduced them, and when I was solving it it kept popping and pieces were falling out all of the time. So I lost my temper with it, smashed it with a hammer and threw it in the bin :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:44 am 
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Ouch Gus! You should be shot! And don't forget all the Dogic's that Tony has made other puzzles out of and you have even less. Then there are some who are sitting on piles of them....

Uwe has already re-tooled the dogic molds. They don't get any better. I've talked to him many many times about this, and he always says the same thing...he's not remaking them.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:06 am 
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katsmom wrote:
Ouch Gus! You should be shot!
Yes I know :( Even the broken pieces would be worth a small fortune these days. The moral of this story is: don't play with a poor turning puzzle when you've been drinking, especially when there are large heavy tools nearby :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:31 am 
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Gus wrote:
katsmom wrote:
Ouch Gus! You should be shot!
Yes I know :( Even the broken pieces would be worth a small fortune these days. The moral of this story is: don't play with a poor turning puzzle when you've been drinking, especially when there are large heavy tools nearby :lol:


Or if you do make sure you film it!


I have often wondered if there is a formula for predicting the diminishing totals of certain objects over a period of time. I know it would be very approximate and multiple factors would have to be considered but someone must have studied the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:28 am 
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Gus wrote:
Not quite. I bought a Mefferts 20 colour dogic when he re-introduced them, and when I was solving it it kept popping and pieces were falling out all of the time. So I lost my temper with it, smashed it with a hammer and threw it in the bin :evil:
You don't have a lot of luck with puzzles disassembling themselves! I hope a piece didn't fly up and hit you in the eye :lol: .
Tony Fisher wrote:
I have often wondered if there is a formula for predicting the diminishing totals of certain objects over a period of time. I know it would be very approximate and multiple factors would have to be considered but someone must have studied the subject.
Yeah, you really have to wonder what percentage of desirable things end up in collections, and what is the percentage the kids break, or the dog eats. I bet there are hundreds sitting in cardboard boxes stashed under beds or in garages, with people having no idea what they are fetching, if they thought they'd get 50 bucks for it they'd sell it immediately. It's just because we know. Same for other things. Ebay is amazing for things like that, suddenly every old thing has a value.
katsmom wrote:
Uwe has already re-tooled the dogic molds. They don't get any better. I've talked to him many many times about this, and he always says the same thing...he's not remaking them.
When I started this thread I was kinda thinking about other rare puzzles too. I think it's great that the Astrolabacus is being produced again, just for the sake of accessibility, but I've noticed some other simpler rare puzzles not fetching as much as in the past and I was wondering about the impact of `the plethora of rediculously incredible puzzles` becoming available on Shapeways. Perhaps people are considering their options (I know I am, in some ways I just can't justify `simple` rare puzzles anymore). Dogics seem to be bucking the trend though. Perhaps they are bucking the trend due to their beauty? Or maybe they are just the right complexity for the average puzzler?

Cheers,
Burgo.

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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)


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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:08 am 
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Gus wrote:
Burgo wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
4000 have been made. At $350 each, that’s $1.4 million worth of Dogics going around.
Not quite. I bought a Mefferts 20 colour dogic when he re-introduced them, and when I was solving it it kept popping and pieces were falling out all of the time. So I lost my temper with it, smashed it with a hammer and threw it in the bin :evil:

The point is don't smash a puzzle with a hammer! GEEZ!

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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:16 am 
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It's like they always say-something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. :)
Ebay can be fickle and not always a good indicator of what something is worth-only what certain people at a certain time wanted to pay. A puzzle can go for a ridiculously high or a ridiculously low price.


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 Post subject: Re: Dogic Prices (and rare puzzles)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:09 am 
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77mouser wrote:
Ebay can be fickle and not always a good indicator of what something is worth-only what certain people at a certain time wanted to pay. A puzzle can go for a ridiculously high or a ridiculously low price.
You are correct. The only way to sort of guarantee a good price for item X is to find an active forum(s) for people interested in X, post the ebay link and bump it like hell. And don't panic when there are only two low bids with 1 hour to go :shock:

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