...so I put a Dodecahedron in ur Dodecahedron so u can scramble while u solve:


VIDEO

All internetz references asides, I would like to present The Multidodecahedron. It is a combination of the Master Pentultimate and Megaminx. They are linked together so when you do a face turn on the one, the corresponding face of the other one is also turned.
In effect, this puzzle has all the pieces that are present in the Megaminx, Pyraminx Crystal, Starminx and (Master) Pentultimate. The design of this puzzle was made by starting from a regular Master Pentultimate (using the shells mechanism, which already relies on an internal Megaminx to support the external pieces) and cutting holes in the faces. However, these holes cutting in to the mechanism would create a very much unstable puzzle so I've designed the parts with a wire-like structure that allows you to look inside the puzzle while enabling good rotation.
The internal Megaminx has flat faces and is not spherical. However it is of course not a full Dodecahedron either, it is simply a sphere that has 12 caps cut off.
There is also a very subtle clicking mechanism (it is literally impossible to notice) that guarantees good alignment of the Pyraminx Crystal edges. I've designed the caps on the Megaminx faces to click in place so there's no need to glue them in place and the puzzle can (reasonably) easily be taken apart again.

As a consequence of the internal cutouts and wire parts, the internal pieces are not as visible as I would like but the puzzle is still fully playable. You just need reasonable good light and need to be looking somewhat straight at the faces. It was actually very difficult to capture this in the pictures (and video), but it's definitely not that bad.
The puzzle rotates exceedingly smooth and I could not have been happier with the result. It measures 35mm on an edge. The mechanism really didn't force the puzzle to be that large, but I wanted a reasonable area for the stickers. That said, it was a nightmare to sticker this puzzle and I had to use a toothpick to get the stickers under the Megaminx corners.

As you can see, a single rotation not only affects the outer pieces but also affects a smaller subset of the pieces inside:


A head-on shot after a few (3) moves, showing the internal Megaminx behaving quite differently from the Master Pentultimate.





I think this truly is a beautiful puzzle and it is definitely one of my favorites. However, it takes a very long time to build so prices for assembled copies will be steep. The Shapeways one will be much more affordable and will come with two free sets of stickers (your choice of regular or super [still under development]). I am still waiting for a response from Shapeways regarding some issues but both this and the 4x5x6 will go for sale early next week.

VIDEO

Phenomenal puzzle Tom. I'm glad that this has finally been shown for the forum to see. Congratulations!

Another amazing puzzle and I must say, this one is exceedingly beautiful. The turning is also fantastic. Fantastic job.

It's about time you unveiled it. Amazing job

Great Job, nice !

Of da chizain. (Since I am german I always thought dawg was actually spelled dog when they said it. I never got what's supposed to be cool about beeing a dog but just accepted it. When you put "Sup dawg?" in the "hints of secret puzzle ideas" threat I knew what it meant and was laughing about myself.)

Also: Beeing able to scramble a Megaminx while solving a Pentultimate and vise versa is not even it! That's just an excuse for those who want to detract from the terrible fact that you are actually supposed to get both solved at a time. I can't imagine how long that would take even if you got routines that change one but don't affect the other. That's what I would try to find. Some genius would probably solve them simultaneously.

Btw: inconceivable EPICNESS.

Wow. Just Wow.

This is just an amazing puzzle even to look at.

It would be interesting to somehow be able to solve this (anyone know of a sim ), just because it would be interesting to see how the pieces interact.

But seriously. Amazing puzzle.

Aha, this puzzle is finally out. Great job!

Please note that the combination of Master Pentultimate and Megaminx is not a random arbitrary combination. On this puzzle we have all the piece in all the face-turning dodecahedra with planar cuts. So it's like the ultimate version of face turning dodecahedron.

Probably a little hasty to say this, but this puzzle could be the puzzle of the year. Absolutely phenomenal puzzle that realizes Carl's idea 2 years ago. Never thought it could ever exist in this form.

Brandon managed to solve this beast using gelatin brain. He had to do the scramble himself and then copy and paste it on the other puzzles. You can read about it in Carl's Multi-Dodecahedron thread here. http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/view ... 87#p239287

[...Future Brandon travels back in time to bring you this post...]

Friends, it is with great sadness we are gathered here to day to morn the loss of TomZ. As we all know by now, after he posted his Multidodecahedron the bar was raised so high that not even Tom could reach it again. The signs of his deterioration could already be seen with the cocaine residue on the brown face of the puzzle in his initial post. Tom's downfall was not unexpected though. Many of us experienced months of depression when we realized no new puzzle could ever live up to the Multidodecahedron. After Sandy closed down the forum citing "perfection being achieved" Tom lost his will to live.

We are still trying to piece together his final moments but what we do know is that Tom was found face down in a pool of his own tears in front of a shrine to the Multidodecahedron.

Sadly, this is the third death attributed to the Multidodecahedron. Poor Carl died of a heart attack when he saw the post and Luke jumped in front of a bus when the purchase of the puzzle caused him to slip into bankruptcy.

Tom will always be remembered as a great designer who for a moment touched the face of god when he brought perfection into the world.

RIP

Absolutely amazing puzzle Tom ! The turning is amazing. Might I ask, why are there triangles right above the megaminx?

Also, the only way to solve this is a ragequit.

They're the Pyraminx Crystal parts. They're required to link the Megaminx to the Master Pentultimate.

where's the facepalm smiley when you need it? I wasn't paying close enough attention and didn't realize that that was a pyraminx crystal.

that is absolutely incredible! also my mind really hurts

Also in TomZ post it says that the wire-like structure is for smooth rotation despite the holes. In case you mean those.
But you are excused. There are just some rare topics where commenting on the pictures not reading the whole text first or just forgetting what you read again because it's so mind blowing is OK.

Quite phenomenal

Robert

Awesome!

One of your absolute best puzzles yet!

Incredible!
Imagine this mass produced out of coloured plastics and some transparent materials.
If you made the Pyraminx Chyrstal arms out of coloured material or dyed them 12 colours you would see 3 puzzles' solved states.
Cheers,
Burgo.

You don't need those to be coloured. The Pyraminx Crystal corners are the same as the Megaminx corners, and the Pyraminx Crystal edges are the Master Pentultimate edges.

Great puzzle! I'm curious how this will change the solution. Should you solve the inner megaminx first or last?

-Eitan

Thank you all for the compliments! And props to you, Brandon, that really cracked me up.

I guess the preferred approach to solving it would be to do the Megaminx first, since there are many opportunities for moving Pentultimate parts without disturbing the Megaminx, as it is deeper cut.

Indeed, it would be possible to somehow dye/sticker the Pyraminx Crystal parts but I found this impractical to do and all the pieces are represented in this variation anyways.

Awesome! And it turns amazing too!



I would solve the megaminx first, since afterwards there are [1,1] commutators that do not affect the solved inside. However, if you solved the Master Pentultimate first, pretty much any move sequences to solve the megaminx will affect the solved outside. [Edit: Like what Tom said]

-Mark-

OK, I wasn't aware, but it would certainly look impressive. Instead of looking like just a frame it would look like more puzzle pieces .
It may be too impractical for shapeways, but when this gets mass produced it will look nice .
Cheers,
Burgo.

I just checked that with gelatinbrains applet and you know it doesn't seem all that difficult after all. I thought it would be insane but actually all the algs I use for solving the Master Pentultimate don't affect the Minx at all. If you solve the Minx first you don't even have any problems. I should have noticed earlier though. Most things you do on deeper cut FTD are meant to cycle the pieces that are only between to non adjacent faces which doesn't do anything to a Megaminx since there is no overlap in those moves.

Just while writing this Door and TomZ said it already.

Can someone please explain the connection between the slang and the puzzle?

Yes, great puzzle. It very slightly resembles an idea I had a while back. That is to show the 'hidden cube/s' within an nxnxn cube. Meaning, for example construct a 5x5x5 with the theoretical 3x3x3 that lies inside visible and solvable. I wrote a post about hidden cubes a few years back- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5719&hilit=hidden+cubes

Yes, but are all the pieces stickered. At first I though they weren't... but let's check.

First thing that jumps out as me is that I think my animation is older then the name "Master Pentultimate". Anyways, piece types 1, 2, and 3 are present in the Megaminx. And pieces 4, 5, 6, and 7 are present on the Master Pentultimate. The only piece not stickered is piece 0, the core, which doesn't need to be stickered as you know its orientation as its attached to the Megaminx face centers, piece type 1. So YES YES YES, this IS the Order=2 Face Turn Multidodecahedron. I'm in LOVE!!!!
Should that be onto? What stickers go under the Megaminx corners?
Nice... not just the Multidodecahedron but the Super Multidodecahedron too. May I ask how you got (or are getting) Shapeways to offer sticker sets with their prints? I'm just getting my shop off the ground and that would be something I'd like to take advantage of... if possible.
Never say never but I certainly expected to see this as an app on Gelatinbrain or elsewhere before it was a real physical puzzle. I must say the last 2 years have been great for this hobby. To take something what was little more then a dream 2 years ago with no idea how to make it a reality to this... in such a short time... WOW!!! Just WOW!!! It feels like saying we'll shot for the moon and then actually making it there. I can't wait to see where we are 2 years from now. Just imagine...
Not the worst way to go... LOL!! Actually I've known about this for a while now and TomZ saved me of the heart attack by introducing things to me slowly. I first saw the sticker template and about all that did was have me scratching my head as I didn't see how the center pieces could turn. Next came the unstickered puzzle and it still wasn't clear to me it was the full Multidodecahedron at that time. Once that dawned on me and I'm not sure I actually SAW it all till today my heart was able to manage only skipping a few beats. But this is one I'll HAVE to get so we'll see how much more my heart can take.
I would have been in the dark about that myself had it not been for google. Here is the best site to go to for an explaination.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/xzibit-yo-dawg#.Tp9_DnKZaSo

The not quite dead yet...
Carl

I must say that my heart nearly stopped when I read that sentence. Don't scare us like that!

-Eitan

Tony, it was EXACTLY this idea... and this very thread you linked to was one of the biggest sparks... that drove me to design a 5x5x5 with a 3x3x3 inside it not once... but twice:

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6187
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19622

And it was just this idea generalized to the Dodecahedron (the idea of solving the hidden pieces inside) that lead to the concept of the Multidodecahedron.

I just love this hobby and this thread is one of the best examples of the great interactions here at TwistyPuzzles.

Carl

Oh I see... but its OK for me to have a heart attack!?

Carl

So now, how about a multiicosahedron?

Seems very complicated structure. But I love it. I like Deodecahedron , too

Nice one! Always nice to see an extravagant idea get this far.

This takes the whole concept of 'nested' cores to the next level...

Amazing! It looks so perfect! Also, I thought Brandon's post was hilarious.

Such an awesome puzzle!!! It seems like it would be incredibly hard to solve though...

Tom,

I echo everyone else's thoughts and say that this puzzle is amazing. I have absolutely no clue how it works or even what's happening with it, despite your explanation and despite seeing the video. I'm pretty much in awe of people who can design things like this.

In order to illustrate how it works, I made the following illustration. One might want to open it in full scale image. Basically it is just equivalent to a megaminx and a master pentultimate, which are synchronized and always turn in the same way.

To paraphrase the film Babe - "That will do Tom... that will do".
Thanks for the picture schuma, that explains it to me, but how to go from idea to actuality and produce this!
Is this the DCD surprise Tom, or do we have to prepare ourselves for puzzles that work in 8 dimensions and make the coffee?
Brilliant puzzle. Well done.

schuma

That diagram's great. It does help. What I'm not getting (excuse my ignorance) is how the inner megaminx differs from the outer penultimate after a few moves. Wouldn't the two layers match up? Or is that the beauty of the puzzle? (My problem may be that I have no idea what a master penultimate is.)

Hmm... possibly not the best grammar, but maybe I should've used "into":This may not look particularly daunting, but this is more or less Mini Starminx scale. The gap between the stickered face and the overlying part of the corner is about 4mm. I had to blue-tack the corners to my desk, and used a steel toothpick (skilfully confiscated from the dentist) and a scraperite blade to get the stickers on there.
Sorry to disappoint, but by cutting and shipping them myself. Shapeways isn't really involved, though I would love if they'd offer me the opportunity to sneak a set of stickers in to their UPS box. Currently though, I just have to send them via the mail.
Also, I should thank you for your countless animations which are really what drove me to make this puzzle. Now you get working on that Real5x5x5!

Thank you! That is a very nice picture and I think it will help many.

Say you turn two sides of a Megaminx which don't interact with each other (and aren't opposite faces), and the back again so the Megaminx is solved, that would still scramble the Master Pentultimate, due to the depth of the cuts. Obviously creating commutators and algorithms would be more complex than that simple sequence.

Tom, may I ask how thick the Pyraminx Crystal 'wires' are?

Very well made!

I have the usual pleas:
Can you post an image showing the puzzle in midturn?
Can you weigh and measure it?

BTW: The first clear image of this puzzle was presented via the invitation for the DCD. That is what Tony's hint here refered to:
viewtopic.php?p=268527#p268527

This puzzle weighs 8.05e-32 solar masses.
Its edge length is 2.34e-13 astronomical units.
(PS: I do not hate you. I am just joking.)

I have added two more pictures to the first post: a half turn image and a "scrambled" image (as far as I dare take it).

The wires have the same height as a regular shell: 2mm. The width is 1.25mm.

OMG I have only one week to rearrange the puzzles in my cabinets to make room for this.

Amazing what you can do with a dodecahedron.

What is the number of posotions (number of particles in the universe = 1)

Interesting question. I guess it's not even more than a Teraminx has. And I think will take a daring guess and say that you can just multiply the megaminx positions with those of a Master Pentultimate. Because you can get every possible MP position on every Minx position there is. (Since solving minx first than covering all MP positions doesn't affect the minx anymoe.) I can't find a reason why that wouldn't cover every possible position.
But I don't know if anyone ever calculated how many there are on a MP.

I would think it would be the product of the number of states of the Megaminx and the Master Pentultimate multiplied by 60 because the orientation of the Master Pentultimate relative to the Megaminx matters. I don't think there would be any other constraints (parity on both puzzles is always fixed).
Apparently the Teraminx has in the order of 10^525 positions. The Megaminx has 10^68 positions. If the Master Pentultimate has about the same (it probably has more), then combined they would have 10^(2*68+1) positions, not nearly as many as the Teraminx.

This puzzle is amazing as to everything: smooth operations, appearance and the idea itself. How many pieces does the puzzle consist of?

Iwona