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 Post subject: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:40 pm 
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Hey Twisty Puzzlers,

I am very pleased to present my newest puzzle:

The Big Kahuna
Video: Coming Soon
Auction: Sometime in September (if at all).
Attachment:
File comment: FTRT - Solved
SANY1585.JPG
SANY1585.JPG [ 2.17 MiB | Viewed 5847 times ]
The Big Kahuna is a Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron. The 30 turning axes are in the same places as a Helicopter Dodecahedron or the Starminx II, but the cuts are even deeper than the Starminx II. The puzzle has 573 pieces, ranging in size from taking up a quarter of the face to... well, look at this picture...
Attachment:
File comment: Look at those tiny pieces!
SANY1599.JPG
SANY1599.JPG [ 2.13 MiB | Viewed 5847 times ]

It turns pretty well, but because of those tiny pieces, it locks up a lot. I have been taking the tiny pieces out a few at a time, and the turning has improved, but it has made the thing a little squishy, which makes it a bit difficult to line up turns. If I can find a balance, it'll make the puzzle turn very well.

The puzzle is just over 10cm between opposite faces. This next picture is a bit misleading, since the Big Kahuna is heavier than a 3x3, so it sinks further into the blanket.
Attachment:
File comment: FTRT - Size comparison
SANY1602.JPG
SANY1602.JPG [ 2.05 MiB | Viewed 5847 times ]


This puzzle jumbles on many different angles. Interestingly, it has a shape-changing tun at 90 degrees, and I think that it is a jumbling turn, too, since it causes some bandaging that I don't think can be fully undone. Pretty cool, no?
Attachment:
File comment: FTRT - Turn 1
SANY1588.JPG
SANY1588.JPG [ 2.14 MiB | Viewed 5847 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: FTRT - Turn 2
SANY1589.JPG
SANY1589.JPG [ 2.11 MiB | Viewed 5847 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: FTRT - Turn 3
SANY1592.JPG
SANY1592.JPG [ 2.14 MiB | Viewed 5847 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: FTRT - Turn 4
SANY1594.JPG
SANY1594.JPG [ 2.07 MiB | Viewed 5847 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: FTRT - Turn 5
SANY1597.JPG
SANY1597.JPG [ 2.16 MiB | Viewed 5847 times ]

I will not be selling this puzzle for a little while because I have been having trouble with dying puzzles here in Chicago. I have narrowed it down to discover that the problem is actually with the tap water here, so I will re-dye the puzzle when I get back to Colorado. Then I'll cut stickers and decide if it's good enough to sell.

Video will be posted soon.

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:46 pm 
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:shock: , wow, nice, great work :P !

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:48 pm 
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WOW!! WOW!! WOW!! That is crazy!! ...in a very good way. I even like the gray color of the pieces. I'll never be able to aford the eBay auction but you should consider putting this up on Shapeways. I could try to save up for it.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Actually, the color is more of a navy blue. It is kind of cool but I really prefer the black that I usually get from Rit Dye.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:29 pm 
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This is incredible! I would love to own one.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Amazing. I can't imagine the dedication that goes into making over 550 pieces... how much did it cost to make? (And how much would you charge for it? :shock: )

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:45 pm 
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WOW this puzzle look realy nice. It looks like you did a realy good job on it.

Thank you for the pics.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Looks beautiful Eitan. Sorry to hear that the tiny triangles catch, hopefully you can find the right balance.
:)


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Wow, phenomenal puzzle. It's also one step closer to the legendary big chop!

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Trust me Kapusta, this is not even close to the big chop :lol:

Amazing puzzle, Eitan, congratz!!

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Geez that thing is a monster. With jumbling it looks next to impossible to solve. I bet those very deep cuts cause a huge jumbling mess.

A lot of those pieces look very much like Dogic-style tiles with small anchors and long overhangs which have a terrible tendency to catch and pop.

I agree with Carl that I really like the color as it is now.

Supposing you work out any kinks in the puzzle and get it turning to your satisfaction, would it be less than $400 on Shapeways?

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Great job!

I look forward to seeing the black version.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:09 pm 
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So after looking at you pictures a bit more and reading your comment about 90 degree turns causing bandaging, does this puzzle have any non-jumbling turns? I would expect only 90 degree turns to be non-jumbling but per your comment, perhaps the puzzle can only be jumbled?

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:11 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
So after looking at you pictures a bit more and reading your comment about 90 degree turns causing bandaging, does this puzzle have any non-jumbling turns? I would expect only 90 degree turns to be non-jumbling but per your comment, perhaps the puzzle can only be jumbled?



The puzzle has 180 degree turns available, as well as (I believe) three types of jumbling. I think the starminx II also shared these properties

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:16 pm 
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gingervergo wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
So after looking at you pictures a bit more and reading your comment about 90 degree turns causing bandaging, does this puzzle have any non-jumbling turns? I would expect only 90 degree turns to be non-jumbling but per your comment, perhaps the puzzle can only be jumbled?



The puzzle has 180 degree turns available, as well as (I believe) three types of jumbling. I think the starminx II also shared these properties

Damn I was thinking in radians and got my degrees wrong. When I was saying/reading 90 degrees I was thinking Pi radians (180 degrees).

I have only solved the Starminx II via non-jumbling on Gelatinbrain and haven't had the opportunity to play with it physically. The Big Kahuna has some really deep cuts for an "edge turning" Dodecahedron. Looks really hard.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:39 am 
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It seems strange to say, but it really really reminds me of a Dogic.

It's a beautiful puzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:15 am 
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That is crazy! The jumbling looks like it could go on forever! Amazing job! :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:32 am 
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Yay! I'm glad I somewhat inspired you to do this (through our very long PM chat, and my very minor imput :lol:). This is crazy cool. Congratulations.

PS: Seeing as I'm a kid who will never win the auction for this, but I did give a little inspiration to you, care to sell me one through Shapeways? :wink: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:08 pm 
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You now have completed the platonic matrix' main diagonal.
Very awesome.

Several questions:
1. Printed by shapeways or a different printing service?
2. How much does it weigh?
3. How many types of pieces?

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:41 pm 
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Kind of odd. I was watching Pulp Fiction and it was at the part where the guy was eating a Big Kahuna Burger when I saw this :shock:
Anyway, wicked awesome puzzle. Can't wait to see it stickered.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:41 pm 
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1) I have no reason to believe it's not Shapeways
2)
3) 573 pieces

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:06 pm 
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This is such an amazing puzzle and I am simply in awe of such a monumental event such as the unveiling of this puzzle. Can't wait to see the video.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Andreas Nortmann wrote:
You now have completed the platonic matrix' main diagonal.
Can you elaborate? What are the other puzzles on this platonic matrix' main diagonal?

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:55 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Andreas Nortmann wrote:
You now have completed the platonic matrix' main diagonal.
Can you elaborate? What are the other puzzles on this platonic matrix' main diagonal?

Carl


I think he meant:

Face turning tetrahedron
Face Turning cube
Face turning...
...
...
Face turning rhombic triacontahedron

BUT, there still hasn't been a face-turning deltoidal hexecontahedron made (I'll make it as soon as i get solidworks instead of autocad ^^)

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:01 am 
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May I ask why the name "The Big Kahuna" ?

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:17 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Andreas Nortmann wrote:
You now have completed the platonic matrix' main diagonal.
Can you elaborate? What are the other puzzles on this platonic matrix' main diagonal?
I believe he's referring to this thread. Although, shouldn't platonic mean it only includes the big 5? Rhombic dodecahedrons and triacontahedron are actually Catalan solids.
I'm not sure what the name is of solids who's edges are all the same length and all the faces are the same. I also can't think of any other solids that fit these parameters but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:54 am 
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GuiltyBystander wrote:
I believe he's referring to this thread. Although, shouldn't platonic mean it only includes the big 5? Rhombic dodecahedrons and triacontahedron are actually Catalan solids.
I'm not sure what the name is of solids who's edges are all the same length and all the faces are the same. I also can't think of any other solids that fit these parameters but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Your belief is correct. I meant that thread. Greg has got it too.
That matrix started as you said with only five columns and five rows. And the main diagonal indeed consists of faceturning puzzles only. Sadly I discovered that the axis system related to the tetrahedrons is identical to that of the octahedron and the axis system of the two faceturning rhombic solids are missing. Just rename it as "Has been platonic" matrix. I ignore faceturning deltoidal hexecontahedrons and things like that because they are pure jumbling puzzles. The six axis system in that matrix are not.

And by the way:
Well done, Eitan.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:17 pm 
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This is really an incredible puzzle! I can not even imagine how someone dares to solve it after it's been fully scrambled and jumbled.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Timur wrote:
This is really an incredible puzzle! I can not even imagine how someone dares to solve it after it's been fully scrambled and jumbled.
Julian has outlined how to solve the non-jumbling edge-turning multi-dodecahedron/icosahedron here.
Does anyone have any idea if jumbling has much impact on the solve? I know it changes helicopter cubes dramatically, but bhearn was saying that it doesn't seem to increase the difficulty of the FTI. If I had to guess, I would think that it would make it harder because it looks like it has orbits just like the helicopter cube.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:43 pm 
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RubixFreakGreg wrote:
May I ask why the name "The Big Kahuna" ?


... have you seen that thing... its a monster. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:37 pm 
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Andreas Nortmann wrote:
Your belief is correct. I meant that thread. Greg has got it too.
That matrix started as you said with only five columns and five rows. And the main diagonal indeed consists of faceturning puzzles only. Sadly I discovered that the axis system related to the tetrahedrons is identical to that of the octahedron and the axis system of the two faceturning rhombic solids are missing. Just rename it as "Has been platonic" matrix. I ignore faceturning deltoidal hexecontahedrons and things like that because they are pure jumbling puzzles. The six axis system in that matrix are not.
Ok... I think I follow. However if I understand this matrix correctly most of the slots aren't unique. The 2x2x2 and the 3x3x3 or all NxNxN for that mater fill the same slot... correct? The first column in your picture shows all shape mods of a skewb, a deep cut puzzle. So if you want these to be unique shouldn't the second column contain the shape mods of a 2x2x2? In the picture they are all 3x3x3's. Or if you just want puzzles with 2 cut planes per axis shouldn't the first column be shape mods of the master skewb?

And even if you just limit yourself to just 2 cut planes per axis with most of these you can vary the cut depth and get many different puzzles. For example the Big Kahuna is a Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron but it isn't the only Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
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IlTallDude wrote:
RubixFreakGreg wrote:
May I ask why the name "The Big Kahuna" ?


... have you seen that thing... its a monster. :shock:


I meant why Kahuna?

P.S: I noticed the faces look a bit like those on my bizarre barrel ^^

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:56 pm 
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RubixFreakGreg wrote:
IlTallDude wrote:
RubixFreakGreg wrote:
May I ask why the name "The Big Kahuna" ?


... have you seen that thing... its a monster. :shock:


I meant why Kahuna?



Oh i see what you mean now. I thought the phrase "big kahuna" meant like a giant or monstrous thing.

idk i could be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
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IlTallDude wrote:
RubixFreakGreg wrote:
May I ask why the name "The Big Kahuna" ?


... have you seen that thing... its a monster. :shock:

Fantastic answer, IlTallDude.

I know it's technically not the right use of the word "Kahuna", but it just somehow fit. Also, it's somewhere in between the Starminx 2 and the Big Chop, so I thought I'd give it a suitably awesome name.

I believe it is actually the same depth as the Icosacopter, but without curved cuts, which made it a LOT harder to design.

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:25 pm 
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what exactly do the small parts that were harming the turning do?


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:36 am 
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pirsquared wrote:
Also, it's somewhere in between the Starminx 2 and the Big Chop, so I thought I'd give it a suitably awesome name.


Actually it's exactly as deep as the Starminx II :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:30 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Ok... I think I follow. However if I understand this matrix correctly most of the slots aren't unique. The 2x2x2 and the 3x3x3 or all NxNxN for that mater fill the same slot... correct? The first column in your picture shows all shape mods of a skewb, a deep cut puzzle. So if you want these to be unique shouldn't the second column contain the shape mods of a 2x2x2? In the picture they are all 3x3x3's. Or if you just want puzzles with 2 cut planes per axis shouldn't the first column be shape mods of the master skewb?

And even if you just limit yourself to just 2 cut planes per axis with most of these you can vary the cut depth and get many different puzzles. For example the Big Kahuna is a Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron but it isn't the only Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron.
I saw the problem with the order of this puzzles too. Due to high availability I choose 2 cuts per axis. A somewhat arbitrary choice. Nothing more.

If I had choosen transformations of the master skewb for the first column that column would have contained the same puzzles as the 3rd. I could ignore this column => I did not want to do that. I remembered the faceturning tetrahedron almost everybody has: The Pyraminx, a puzzle with one cut per axis and which filled that slot in the earlier versions. I decided to use that as a reference and go for skewb variations in that column. Pyraminx-variations were possible too.

The DinoCube could be replaced with a MasterSkewb or a RexCube. The slot below could be filled with a FTO. The megaminx could be replaced with a straminx. Many other examples. The goal behind that matrix is to find AT LEAST one puzzle for each slot. Which one does not matter and to show off I used the more rare ones I own.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:19 pm 
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RubixFreakGreg wrote:
pirsquared wrote:
Also, it's somewhere in between the Starminx 2 and the Big Chop, so I thought I'd give it a suitably awesome name.


Actually it's exactly as deep as the Starminx II :lol:


No. It has one more layer of mechanism than the Starminx II, which is needed to keep in the pieces around the 5-fold symmetry vertices.

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:00 am 
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Holy smoke! That looks amazing and complex.

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Kahuna (Face-Turning Rhombic Triacontahedron)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:29 pm 
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no,seriously we need to make a promise that nobody will break the universe anymore ,look what is happening :lol:

i kidding ,awesome job ,just cut the stickers and i'm pretty sure that will be excelent to sell

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