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 Post subject: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:39 pm 
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Origional post:

No, That is not one of Grigr's microbic cubes.

I told you all I had one more trick up my sleeve, and this is it. This puzzle has been my little secret and I am extremely pleased. Here are some pictures for now,I will update this post when I feel like it. :D

EDIT:

Yes that is a mini 3x3 the puzzle, which is a Helicopter dodecahedron, or "Dodecacopter".

It is actually the same size as a Mefferts megaminx.

I designed this puzzle to be a good size, be somewhat interesting, and be somewhat affordable. So this puzzle can be purchased here for the great price of $150 USD. I am willing to dye, assemble, and sticker the puzzle for a fee, which we can work out if anyone is interested.

You can watch a video here

and I added a few pictures below


I was originally planning on selling this copy of the puzzle, but I like it so much I might keep it. If anyone does order a kit and doesn't know where to get the proper screws just email me at MatthewScottRay (at) gmail (dot) com.

Edit again:

I have been trying to solve it, and like I said, it is more difficult than I thought, video.


Attachments:
size.JPG
size.JPG [ 431.92 KiB | Viewed 6843 times ]
jumble.JPG
jumble.JPG [ 1.87 MiB | Viewed 6843 times ]
turns.JPG
turns.JPG [ 1.87 MiB | Viewed 6843 times ]
good.JPG
good.JPG [ 250.07 KiB | Viewed 6927 times ]
1.jpg
1.jpg [ 70.63 KiB | Viewed 6927 times ]
2.jpg
2.jpg [ 68.21 KiB | Viewed 6927 times ]
3.jpg
3.jpg [ 69.54 KiB | Viewed 6927 times ]


Last edited by Muffet on Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:43 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Those edges almost look like they can have hexagonal symmetry. Maybe this + fudging....? :wink:

Looks great, by the way. I'd like it better black, but what the heck, that doesn't make much of a difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:47 pm 
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Nice!

2 questions: why is the topic called "miscalculation in size"?

and what is it? I guess its an edge turning dodec, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:48 pm 
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I told you to not leave your puzzles for too long in the basement
as they will get spider-webs on all the faces!!!

:lol:

On a serious note, BRILLIANT puzzle!

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Monopoly wrote:
Those edges almost look like they can have hexagonal symmetry. Maybe this + fudging....? :wink:

Looks great, by the way. I'd like it better black, but what the heck, that doesn't make much of a difference.


If my guess is right it has two types of movement, one similar to the flowerminx and one for the edges.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:53 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Monopoly wrote:
Those edges almost look like they can have hexagonal symmetry. Maybe this + fudging....? :wink:

Looks great, by the way. I'd like it better black, but what the heck, that doesn't make much of a difference.


If my guess is right it has two types of movement, one similar to the flowerminx and one for the edges.

:)


Pantazis

LOL sorry if I wasn't clear, here I wasn't speculating about the turning but theorizing for something new :lol:
when I saw it I immediately just assumed it was a helicopter dodecahedron... but I think you may be correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:55 pm 
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This is awesome! :P Could you please post a video?


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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:00 pm 
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It is proving to be a little harder to solve than I thought it would be


Attachments:
SD533641.JPG
SD533641.JPG [ 2.02 MiB | Viewed 6888 times ]
SD533640.JPG
SD533640.JPG [ 2.03 MiB | Viewed 6888 times ]
SD533639.JPG
SD533639.JPG [ 2.17 MiB | Viewed 6888 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:08 pm 
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Monopoly wrote:
kastellorizo wrote:
Monopoly wrote:
Those edges almost look like they can have hexagonal symmetry. Maybe this + fudging....? :wink:

Looks great, by the way. I'd like it better black, but what the heck, that doesn't make much of a difference.


If my guess is right it has two types of movement, one similar to the flowerminx and one for the edges.

:)


Pantazis

LOL sorry if I wasn't clear, here I wasn't speculating about the turning but theorizing for something new :lol:
when I saw it I immediately just assumed it was a helicopter dodecahedron... but I think you may be correct.


I see, I see.... but it seems you are right... it may only have one type of movement
(not that it makes it a less spectacular puzzle!)

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Very cool. I believe this is a true Helicopter Dodecahedron. Nice!

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:28 pm 
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Now you're just teasing us. We want to see how it turns!

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:33 pm 
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I am willing to bet that this is both face and edge turning. The combocopter has all the part types that this puzzle has, and I think this is just a version where other parts are hidden with some clever "redi style" overlapping.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Looking at the pictures, I'm pretty sure at least the helicopter moves are possible. If you notice, it has small gaps at the edges like on the helicopter cube.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:37 pm 
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It was titled miscalculation in size because I was hoping to fool the intellectual minds of this forum into thinking that the 3x3 up there was normal sized and the puzzle was huge. I also wanted to make you guys guess a little over what it actually is, but you guys also figured that out pretty quick, sooooo I have edited the first post now.


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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Right, I'll be buying this straight after my Curvy Copter II.

Do you think you could make a version with unbandaged center parts like Tom's Curvy Copter Plus and Eric's Unbandaged Helicopter Cube?

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Luke wrote:
Right, I'll be buying this straight after my Curvy Copter II.

Do you think you could make a version with unbandaged center parts like Tom's Curvy Copter Plus and Eric's Unbandaged Helicopter Cube?



It is a possibility, but not something that I will be pursuing very quickly. I have another design I am supposed to be finishing for someone that I am having some difficulties with and I am done for a while. With puzzles as a whole I mean. This was the last big project I wanted to get done and I a taking a break, this hobby is costing me way too much money, so you guys probably won't see too much of me in the future for a while. Don't worry, I'm not giving up, I am just giving up spending money for a while :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:17 pm 
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This is such an amazing puzzle! And its so affordable (for shapeways standards) :D

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:34 pm 
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it's beautiful! is there any way to cover up the screws a little better?

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:46 pm 
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Muffet wrote:
It is proving to be a little harder to solve than I thought it would be
Indeed, this puzzle has a hidden fixed orientation. You can solve the corners ignoring orientation but if you try to solve the center triangles to match the corners you'll find that some orbits can't reach the necessary face. That is, the center triangles are in several orbits that restrict where each triangle can go so the only way to get everything to come together correctly is to determine the right orientation for the core which you can not see.

It's an interesting property that I don't think any mas-produced puzzle has.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:07 pm 
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bmenrigh wrote:
Muffet wrote:
It is proving to be a little harder to solve than I thought it would be
Indeed, this puzzle has a hidden fixed orientation. You can solve the corners ignoring orientation but if you try to solve the center triangles to match the corners you'll find that some orbits can't reach the necessary face. That is, the center triangles are in several orbits that restrict where each triangle can go so the only way to get everything to come together correctly is to determine the right orientation for the core which you can not see.

It's an interesting property that I don't think any mas-produced puzzle has.


Soooooo what your saying is I will never solve it? :lol:

MonkeyZ wrote:
This is such an amazing puzzle! And its so affordable (for shapeways standards) :D

This is exactly what I was going for, thank you, and everyone for the kind comments


X-TownCuber wrote:
it's beautiful! is there any way to cover up the screws a little better?

I will try, but I don't think so, I think the cuts would cut into the cap, I will try and make one really slim. They will probably increase the cost by a dollar or so too. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:32 pm 
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Muffet wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
Muffet wrote:
It is proving to be a little harder to solve than I thought it would be
Indeed, this puzzle has a hidden fixed orientation. You can solve the corners ignoring orientation but if you try to solve the center triangles to match the corners you'll find that some orbits can't reach the necessary face. That is, the center triangles are in several orbits that restrict where each triangle can go so the only way to get everything to come together correctly is to determine the right orientation for the core which you can not see.

It's an interesting property that I don't think any mas-produced puzzle has.


Soooooo what your saying is I will never solve it? :lol:


Your strategy should first be to determine the orientation of the core by solving three adjacent face centers. This should be enough to uniquely define the overall puzzle orientation:
Attachment:
helicopter_dodeca.png
helicopter_dodeca.png [ 119.64 KiB | Viewed 6673 times ]
If you can place the 5 black, 5 blue, and 5 yellow center triangles around 3 adjacent faces in the orientation shown above that will tell you which face is black, blue, and yellow. As long as you remember these faces you can go about solving the puzzle using a typical helicopter cube strategy adapted to the dodecahedron.

You can use trial-and-error to first solve the black face. Then solve the blue face next to it. If it turns out to be impossible to solve the blue face around any of the faces touching the black face then you know you put the black face in the wrong place. Using trial and error you'll eventually get these three next to each other (the blue must be on the left of the yellow with black on top). Once you get them the whole puzzle will solve smoothly.

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:45 pm 
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Amazing puzzle! 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Brandon, your strategy is necessary if no jumble is allowed, as we did on gelatinbrain. But if jumble is allowed, any triangle can go anywhere and this constraint disappears. So, with jumbling, this puzzle is actually easier, (for someone who hasn't read your post).


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:48 pm 
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I made yet another little video of me trying to solve it, and I guess I was wrong about what I said about Jumbling. :oops:

Pathetic attempt of solving

since filming I have finally found the correct positions of the centers, and I know how to put the corners in the right place. The only thing I don't know how to do is rotate corners now. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:38 am 
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That "deep cut Dino dodecahedron" is actually mechanically equivalent to a face turning icosahedron!

...Anyway I can't decide whether I like Muffet's version better... it looks nicer, but the other one will be easier. :lol:

I need to start keeping track of all the Shapeways puzzles I want to buy in the future... this one included!


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:59 am 
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All though I really dislike the material that Shapeways uses I my have to get this very soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Miscalculation in size
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:09 am 
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Luke wrote:
Very cool. I believe this is a true Helicopter Dodecahedron. Nice!


Finally someone agrees with me.

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:24 am 
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Of course. I finally make a puzzle I think that will make people happy and Mf8 makes a massed produced one :(

However on a serious note, if you are interested in a helicopter dodecahedron like mine, I would be very happy with a Colaboration with you Mf8. My design could be very easily turned into a massed produced puzzle I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:26 am 
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Muffet wrote:
Of course. I finally make a puzzle I think that will make people happy and Mf8 makes a massed produced one :(


Okay, now I'm hoping for a mass produced Icosacopter! :lol:

On the serious note, I think that would be a great idea. I would much prefer a version like yours over the standard one (actually I don't mind, but I don't like the perculiar look of mf8's Helicopter Dodecahedron. This version also looks like it could be transformed into an awesome icosahedron and rhombic triancontahedron, now that the center pieces have been hidden.

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:31 am 
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Luke wrote:
Muffet wrote:
Of course. I finally make a puzzle I think that will make people happy and Mf8 makes a massed produced one :(


Okay, now I'm hoping for a mass produced Icosacopter! :lol:

On the serious note, I think that would be a great idea. I would much prefer a version like yours over the standard one (actually I don't mind, but I don't like the perculiar look of mf8's Helicopter Dodecahedron. This version also looks like it could be transformed into an awesome icosahedron and rhombic triancontahedron, now that the center piece has been hidden.


I pm'd Mf8 about my design for the helicopter dodecahedron, but I doubt that it will happen, seeing that prototype means that they already have put a lot of money into the design and making molds.


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:36 am 
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Amazing puzzle, I love it! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:50 am 
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Beautiful puzzle.
I like it more than Mf8's.

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Katsmom, could you tell me, does the Mf8 helicopter dodecahedron use a 12 armed core like their dino dodecahedron? I feel unlucky and happy at the same time. Happy that a new unique puzzle is going to be availible soon, unlucky because I feel like I should have wasted my money on something else. :roll:

About the deeper cut dino puzzle, unless they used some wacky mechanism for it. it should jumble, much in the same way that the floating pieces in the Dodecacopter II jumbles.


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:23 pm 
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I wish I could tell you hun, but I haven't taken them apart. Megaminx type core is all I know. Or is it????? I have a photo of something interesting.....

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:59 am 
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If it was secret how come i knew abuot it two months ago? :lol:

by the way: This could be made as a mod of the copter+megaminx to make a real kilominx+helidodec... you should definitely make it!!!

- Greg :)

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:40 am 
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RubixFreakGreg wrote:
If it was secret how come i knew abuot it two months ago? :lol:


Because I listen to the birds and I like suffocating cats :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:46 am 
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Jared wrote:
...Anyway I can't decide whether I like Muffet's version better... it looks nicer, but the other one will be easier. :lol:
I'd like to see both versions mass produced. However if the mf8 one is too easy I guess you could always just leave the edges and centers unstickered.

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:28 am 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Jared wrote:
...Anyway I can't decide whether I like Muffet's version better... it looks nicer, but the other one will be easier. :lol:
I'd like to see both versions mass produced. However if the mf8 one is too easy I guess you could always just leave the edges and centers unstickered.

Carl


That would make it easy OR ugly, so I think Matthew's version is the one that should be mass produced!

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:53 am 
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I don't exactly get what makes the mf8 version easier, unless it's the fact that the orientation of the center colors is easily visible. However I don't think that Muffet's version is any 'harder', just more annoying to solve due to the uncertain center positioning [think holey megaminx v. megaminx]. If anything, won't the mf8 be even harder because you have to worry about center (er... edge?) orientation, like on the Curvy Copter?

That said, those were all opinion, I do greatly prefer the look of Muffet's over the mf8 one.

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:49 pm 
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Monopoly wrote:
I don't exactly get what makes the mf8 version easier, unless it's the fact that the orientation of the center colors is easily visible. However I don't think that Muffet's version is any 'harder', just more annoying to solve due to the uncertain center positioning [think holey megaminx v. megaminx]. If anything, won't the mf8 be even harder because you have to worry about center (er... edge?) orientation, like on the Curvy Copter?

That said, those were all opinion, I do greatly prefer the look of Muffet's over the mf8 one.


There is a bit of difference between trying to find the centers with a holey megaminx and this puzzle. As long as you know the color scheme you can easily solve the holey megaminx. The Helicoper Dodecahedron however has a specific orientation of those pieces to the core. So no matter how well you know the color scheme you also need to determine where you can place to pieces to get that color scheme.

Though I do agree, I am not sure how much harder this makes it, but possibly more annoying :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:25 pm 
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I know we're all excited about MF8 bringing these puzzles to mass-production, we're starting to get off topic. If you want to continue the discussion, someone can make a thread about the new MF8 dodecahedral puzzles.

Back on topic: Muffet, I love how this turns. I hope you sell lots on Shapeways!

-Eitan

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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:35 pm 
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pirsquared wrote:
I know we're all excited about MF8 bringing these puzzles to mass-production, we're starting to get off topic. If you want to continue the discussion, someone can make a thread about the new MF8 dodecahedral puzzles.

Back on topic: Muffet, I love how this turns. I hope you sell lots on Shapeways!

-Eitan


I was hoping so too, but I highly doubt it :roll:

Darn you MF8! :lol:

Someone has purchased one, I am not sure who, but I think this one is gonna be a collectors item only, MF8's will certainly be cheaper, mine is pretty much as cheap as it can go. I would have to sell quite a few before shapeways will even pay me markup lol.

On another note I have decided to sell mine, I am setting the price at $200 shipped priority mail. Faster shipping will be a few extra dollars if someone wants it.


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 Post subject: Re: Helicopter Dodecahedron (Miscalculation in size)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:29 am 
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MF8 wrote:
mf8 New Products
Attachment:
DSCN4303.jpg

A Helicopter Dodecahedron AND a Dodecahedral Rex Cube?

:shock: Someone please help me sweep up off of the floor the broken shards of what was formerly my jaw! :shock:

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