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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:46 pm

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:52 am
Location: Brighton, UK
Katja wrote:
Pure Big Chop/1.4.3 Algorithm

I finally did it! I finally found a pure 3-cycle for the Big Chop. I feel like this is the end of a long and hard marathon.
Congratulations! Your algo is shorter than the [14,1] I used to solve it. Good luck with the solve.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:03 pm

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:41 am
Location: The Blue Mountains, Australia
bmenrigh wrote:
Also, Elwyn, I've been trying to beat your 5.1.10 move count record of 85 but that score is AMAZING. I've been working on various techniques for many hours this weekend and my best score is still only 101. I have some ideas on places I can save though so maybe it's reachable.

Sorry for the late reply, i haven't really been solving anything lately but after skimming through the professor pyraminx solving thread i thought i'd have another look at it. That record was a long time ago so i wasn't sure what method i used, i went to give it another solve and the most natural method for me was almost complete reduction, as in:

1. reduce centres

2. reduce edges into groups of three not bothering with the very outer edges

3. solve HM tetrahedron with face moves however the corner orientation doesn't matter

4. cycle the outer edge little pieces next to the corners with [1,1] commutators. Similar to mosaic cube small edges.

So on the solve that i was trying to figure out my method i beat my record again and got 80 moves... and i know i could have done the very last step in a couple less moves. I like this method as it makes the annoying three centres swapped situation just 1 click away from being three edge groups swapped because the corners can rotate by themselves (with the pieces i solve last).

I wonder if i should post this into the professor pyraminx thread. It's a really simple method.

Oh and Katja, how are you liking Sydney Are you at UTS? I have a few friends there.

_________________
Some PBs
3x3x3 :20.7 seconds, 5x5x5 2:33, gigaminx 16:40, 7x7x7 9:48, pyraminx crystal 3:42

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:19 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Elwyn wrote:
bmenrigh wrote:
Also, Elwyn, I've been trying to beat your 5.1.10 move count record of 85 but that score is AMAZING. I've been working on various techniques for many hours this weekend and my best score is still only 101. I have some ideas on places I can save though so maybe it's reachable.

Sorry for the late reply, i haven't really been solving anything lately but after skimming through the professor pyraminx solving thread i thought i'd have another look at it. That record was a long time ago so i wasn't sure what method i used, i went to give it another solve and the most natural method for me was almost complete reduction, as in:

1. reduce centres

2. reduce edges into groups of three not bothering with the very outer edges

3. solve HM tetrahedron with face moves however the corner orientation doesn't matter

4. cycle the outer edge little pieces next to the corners with [1,1] commutators. Similar to mosaic cube small edges.

So on the solve that i was trying to figure out my method i beat my record again and got 80 moves... and i know i could have done the very last step in a couple less moves. I like this method as it makes the annoying three centres swapped situation just 1 click away from being three edge groups swapped because the corners can rotate by themselves (with the pieces i solve last).
Awesome, thanks. Late replies are fine, I haven't had a lot of solving time lately either. I too was using reduction and then solving the reduced HM pyramid via face moves. I reduced the edge groups (three edges, not the outer wings) and then reduced the centers. I have reduced the edge groups in as few as 16 moves but the centers I do with [3,1] commutators which is costing me a lot of moves. I thought about doing centers first and then edge groups but I couldn't figure out how to (efficiently) reduce the edges without breaking the centers. I didn't think it would mater so much but I guess it does. I'll have to re-visit the puzzle using your solve order.

I also think you're probably a lot more efficient than me with the outer edge pieces. I try but usually fail to do 2 in a single cycle. I need to practice them a lot more.

Thanks for your ideas and it's good to see you posting again!

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:29 pm

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:41 am
Location: The Blue Mountains, Australia
For reducing the edge groups with the centres done it's just like a 5x5x5 so a [1,3] where the second 3 isn't needed so 5 moves. I think it could be a fast time method as well.

And for the small edge pieces i'm not sure 2 in a cycle is always possible but i think it is most of the time.

_________________
Some PBs
3x3x3 :20.7 seconds, 5x5x5 2:33, gigaminx 16:40, 7x7x7 9:48, pyraminx crystal 3:42

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:25 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
Elwyn wrote:
Oh and Katja, how are you liking Sydney Are you at UTS? I have a few friends there.
I am loving it! I have really been enjoying the summer (we don't really get hot and sunny summers in Norway). I'm going to Macquarie and I really like it there, but I also have a few friends at UTS.
bmenrigh wrote:
Thanks for your ideas and it's good to see you posting again!
I'm also happy to see you back on the forum And it is always fun to read about your FM methods!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:01 am

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
Big Chop/1.4.3 outline
Attachment:

Skjermbilde 2011-03-25 kl. 20.43.50.png [ 68.22 KiB | Viewed 5143 times ]
1. I tried making one face (white) intuitively and got about 7/10 pieces.
2. Completed the white face using commutators.
3. Solved the 5 faces around the white face using commutators.
4. Solved the yellow face.
5. Solved each of the remaining faces partially to be able to distinguish which face was which color.
6. Solve the remaining pieces.

My pure 3-cycle is a [12,1], posted back on page 51.

I have to admit that I'm really really happy to have solved this puzzle! Though solving it wasn't as hard as finding the algorithm. But that's not a bad thing considering how hard that was

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:24 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Elwyn wrote:
For reducing the edge groups with the centres done it's just like a 5x5x5 so a [1,3] where the second 3 isn't needed so 5 moves. I think it could be a fast time method as well.

And for the small edge pieces i'm not sure 2 in a cycle is always possible but i think it is most of the time.
Thanks a lot of sharing this method. I can't believe that I didn't spot the simple [1,3] for pairing up the edge groups. If I had noticed that I would have been using your solve order all along.

I went back and practiced my HM-pyramid solving a bunch to improve that phase of the solve.

I just solved 5.1.10 in 66 moves. I reduced centers in 7, paired edges in 35, got a very lucking HM-pyramid solve in 41, and then cycled all of those edge pieces for a total of 66 moves.

A 60 move solve would be extremely lucky so I think 60 is pretty much the lower bound.

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:01 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
I've been working very hard to get some fewest-move records for the tetrahedra. Carefully applying Elwyn's reduction method for 5.1.10 and 5.1.11 wasn't so bad. I then focused on 5.1.4. I solved it like 5.1.3 with face moves, and then solved the triangles about the corners. The triangles fell into place very smoothly and beating Michael's 32 moves was easy. I think it was a lucky solve.

Now I have been trying to beat the 5.1.5 record and it seems impossible. My best is 39 moves, the record is 24 moves.

I have tried three strategies. All of them start with solving the ring around each corner so that all of the triangle face pieces match their corner. This never takes more than 4 moves.

1) Then, the first strategy I tried is first reducing to 5.1.2 an then solving it with face moves. Even though I can usually solve the reduce 5.1.2 in 7-9 moves, the reduction part takes too many moves.

2) Then I tried solving the 5.1.2 pieces and then cycling the extra triangles. Those extra triangles take too many moves.

3) Finally for the last method I tried, I first figured out how to solve the 5.1.2 pieces in only 8 moves. Then I wrote down those moves and I first searched for 3-cycles of the small edge wings. If I couldn't solve 2 in only 4 moves I would do a face move for the 5.1.2 part. Between each of the 8 moves I only cycled the edge-wings when they happened to be lined up nicely. This way while I was solving the 5.1.2 puzzle I was also solving the edge-wings.

By doing this I basically didn't waste any moves. Yet, it still took 39.

On this puzzle there are 12 edge-wing pieces, 6 5.1.2 edges, 4 corners, and 4 groups of 3 face triangles that match up with the corners. How is it possible to solve all of these pieces in 24 moves? It seems like it would take such extraordinary luck. Two lucky solves (Elwyn has 25) seems less likely though.

Perhaps I'm missing something?

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:24 am

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:41 am
Location: The Blue Mountains, Australia
To get my 25 move solve i just solved the inner pieces as a pyraminx using only shift click and then applied the last step of my 5.1.10 method to the outer pieces. It just takes some luck to get sub 30.

I just tried and got a 31 then a 30 out of two tries. When i was 1 move away from finishing the 30 move solve i undid it a fair way and tried it again to get a 24 move solve (equal to the record). So solves of around that can't be too rare, just try to make every move count. That said the reason i went back and tried again was the pyraminx stage only took 5 moves.

I see you've taken a liking to stealing my records perhaps i'll have to start keeping my methods secret... nah, where's the fun in that. Also nice 5.1.4 and 5.1.6 records, especially 5.1.4.

_________________
Some PBs
3x3x3 :20.7 seconds, 5x5x5 2:33, gigaminx 16:40, 7x7x7 9:48, pyraminx crystal 3:42

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:37 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Elwyn wrote:
To get my 25 move solve i just solved the inner pieces as a pyraminx using only shift click and then applied the last step of my 5.1.10 method to the outer pieces. It just takes some luck to get sub 30.

I just tried and got a 31 then a 30 out of two tries. When i was 1 move away from finishing the 30 move solve i undid it a fair way and tried it again to get a 24 move solve (equal to the record). So solves of around that can't be too rare, just try to make every move count. That said the reason i went back and tried again was the pyraminx stage only took 5 moves.
Hmm well I have my work cut out for me. Those 12 wing triangles have to be solved super-efficiently so I guess I need to abandon [1,1] commutators and look for more free-form ways to cycle them.

Elwyn wrote:
I see you've taken a liking to stealing my records perhaps i'll have to start keeping my methods secret... nah, where's the fun in that. Also nice 5.1.4 and 5.1.6 records, especially 5.1.4.
I'm not going after your records, I'm just going after records. The fact that you're the one holding them says something about your solving ability

Personally I don't think it's possible to appreciate how good some of the records are until you try to break them. For example, I would like to get the record for 5.1.8, 5.1.9, and 5.1.12. For 5.1.12 the puzzle is similar to 5.1.10 but it doesn't have the center pieces and it has those extra 3 diamond pieces on each face. I know I can solve 5.1.10 in ~66 moves and your record for 5.1.12 is 86 moves. That gives me about 20 "extra" moves to try to solve those diamond pieces. So far I don't see how to do it. I have explored a couple different reduction strategies but none of them come close.

I'm going to have to come up with something completely different than what I have been doing to compete with your record.

The ability to share ideas is one of the best things about competing for records. Thanks for your help and ideas so far

Edit: I just got a 22 move solve for 5.1.5 I really didn't think this was possible so thanks for pushing me to expand beyond my normal comfort zone. Previously I had been trying to get pure 3-cycles with commutators. Instead of going for 3-cycles I tried to solve all of the pieces free-form at the same time. This involved a ton of exploration and undo and was quite fun. I just recently started solving the Pyraminx and HM-Pyramid this way so it's still a new strategy for me.

Now I have to figure out your 5.1.12 tricks.

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:03 am

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
6.1.2
Attachment:

6.1.2.png [ 48.29 KiB | Viewed 5031 times ]
I decided to try out one of the spheres today, and I'm not able to get past this point. Seriously, I have no idea how to approach these puzzles. That's why I decided to give it a shot, but I'm not making much progress More people should attempt these! Then we would have a better chance at understanding them.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:56 pm
Katja wrote:
6.1.2
Attachment:
6.1.2.png
I decided to try out one of the spheres today, and I'm not able to get past this point. Seriously, I have no idea how to approach these puzzles. That's why I decided to give it a shot, but I'm not making much progress More people should attempt these! Then we would have a better chance at understanding them.

I've sometimes tried to find something that would solve these puzzles and I never found something. I will just ask schuma sometime, how he did it. They jumble so evil. Maybe first get the pieces from the shape right, and then solve them from the color.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:17 am

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:41 am
Location: The Blue Mountains, Australia
Alright Brandon, it seems your competition has sparked my interest in the 5.1.x group again.

I just got the records for 5.1.(6,7,8,9) so i suppose 10 and 11 are next. You've been trying these long enough that i'm sure you have gotten annoyed at the three centres swapped situation, it has caused me some major annoyance. I don't think there is a method that is worth using, whilst going for fewest moves, to fix it. Do you know a good way? If it wasn't for this situation i could have gotten an amazing record for 5.1.6 (around 37) but instead i just had to hit scramble and ended up getting something more like 49 (i'm not exactly sure what i got in the end). Even a method that involved going back to the last edge groups you paired and pairing them in a slightly different way would be good but i can't seem to consistently fix it.

Also 66 is very good for 5.1.10. I just tried and got a 70 and thought i was doing rather well, apparently not as well as you did.

_________________
Some PBs
3x3x3 :20.7 seconds, 5x5x5 2:33, gigaminx 16:40, 7x7x7 9:48, pyraminx crystal 3:42

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:27 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
For 6.1.2, I first align the cuts and then solve the colors.

Here is my method for aligning all the cuts in 6.1.2:

In this phase, we consider two kinds of pieces or combinated pieces.

The first kind, called isosceles combo, is the combination of a kite-shaped piece and a small triangle. Depending on whether the small triangle is on the left-bottom corner or the right-bottom corner, the combos are categorized into the left-type and the right-type.

Attachment:

isosc.PNG [ 3.7 KiB | Viewed 4979 times ]

Placing a left-type combo into a place belonging to a right-type combo causes misalignment of cuts.

The second kind, called equilateral combo, can be a big equilateral triangle by itself or the combination of a diamond-shaped pieces plus two small equilateral triangles.

Attachment:

equil.PNG [ 3.52 KiB | Viewed 4979 times ]

Here are my steps:

1. Do some adjustments so that U and D can be turned by 45 deg.

2. Use algorithm-A to make 3-cycles of isosceles combos illustrated as follows: (the left view is "before", the right view is "after")

Attachment:

612A.PNG [ 21.2 KiB | Viewed 4979 times ]

Algorithm-A:
U-135 / U45, D-45 / U45 / U-45 / D45 / U-45 / U135, where "/" denotes R180, "U-135" denotes turning U counterclockwise by 135 deg, and "U45" denotes turning U clockwise by 45 deg.

This algorithm is borrowed from the Square-1.

This algorithm affects equilateral combos.

In this step I don't care about color, but only make sure the left-type combos go to the left-type place (and the right-type combos too).

3. Use algorithm-B to make 3-cycles of equilateral combos:

Attachment:

612B.PNG [ 11.4 KiB | Viewed 4979 times ]

Algorithm-B: [U-90, R45, U90, R-45]x5

After these three steps, all the cuts are aligned. The later steps use (relatively) traditional techniques.

_________________
Check out some virtual puzzles I created at http://nan.ma

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:49 pm

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:52 am
Location: Brighton, UK
Thank you, schuma! Wonderful post. I will definitely try 6.1.2 this weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:36 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Elwyn wrote:
Alright Brandon, it seems your competition has sparked my interest in the 5.1.x group again.
Friendly competition is fun, even when I usually end up on the losing side Great job getting 42 moves on 5.1.6, that's a great score!

I'm not sure how to compete on 5.1.8 and 5.1.9 because of those diamond-shaped center pieces. If I solve the diamonds efficiently then I can't solve the 3 center triangles on each face efficiently. Conversely, if I solve those center triangles then the diamond pieces are costly to solve.

On 5.1.8 did you reduce to a HM-pyramid or to a Pyraminx?

Elwyn wrote:
I just got the records for 5.1.(6,7,8,9) so i suppose 10 and 11 are next. You've been trying these long enough that i'm sure you have gotten annoyed at the three centres swapped situation, it has caused me some major annoyance. I don't think there is a method that is worth using, whilst going for fewest moves, to fix it. Do you know a good way? If it wasn't for this situation i could have gotten an amazing record for 5.1.6 (around 37) but instead i just had to hit scramble and ended up getting something more like 49 (i'm not exactly sure what i got in the end). Even a method that involved going back to the last edge groups you paired and pairing them in a slightly different way would be good but i can't seem to consistently fix it.
For puzzles like 5.1.6 that either have a twisted corner or the broken centers I have been checking for that situation very early in the solve. For 5.1.6, after I reduce the centers in ~6 moves I do a quick face-move-only solve of the puzzle to see if a single corner is twisted or if there is a 3-cycle in the reduce centers. If so then I just hit scramble since it is so early in the solve. If it solves cleanly with face-moves then I undo that solve back to the the reduced centers.

If you pair up the edges by using face-move setups only then you wont change the final outcome of the centers or corner twist.

For 5.1.7 it's a lot more annoying because you have to reduce the edge groups before you find out there is a problem. I have been just hitting scramble.

Elwyn wrote:
Also 66 is very good for 5.1.10. I just tried and got a 70 and thought i was doing rather well, apparently not as well as you did.
My 5.1.10 solve went pretty smoothly. It wasn't really skill, everything just lined up nicely so I didn't have to spend a lot of time searching for clean cycles.

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:11 am

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:41 am
Location: The Blue Mountains, Australia
hahaha i wouldn't say you're on the loosing side at the moment, not until i get back that 5.1.10 record.

Checking for the parity before pairing the edges is a far better idea than after!
You might be a little annoyed at yourself for not seeing this but the 5.1.8/9 centres are solved not by piece type but more like the centres on a 5x5x5, especially 5.1.9. Just like 5.1.12 and up. So that bit of information should help you out on quite a few.

I reduced 5.1.8 to a HM just because it's what i'm used to but i think it would be easier/more efficient as well. Also on 5.1.8 there is a different 2 centres swapped situation due to a lack of a very centre piece but it is easily avoided at the very start by knowing the colour scheme/checking the corners.

Just realised i haven't even solved 15 or 17 so i suppose there's a couple more records to try for.

Edit: took the 5.1.15 record from 126 to 96

And 5.1.17 from 130 to 87

_________________
Some PBs
3x3x3 :20.7 seconds, 5x5x5 2:33, gigaminx 16:40, 7x7x7 9:48, pyraminx crystal 3:42

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:08 pm

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:56 pm
schuma wrote:
For 6.1.2, I first align the cuts and then solve the colors.

Here is my method for aligning all the cuts in 6.1.2:

...

That is well done. Thank you for finding a way.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:08 pm

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:16 pm
Location: Unknown
I decided to take a whack at gelatinbrain's 1.1.2. I almost solved it when this case came up. I 've never solved a pyraminx crystal. So I don't know how to fix this.

 Attachments: Gelatinbrain 1.1.2.png [ 264.41 KiB | Viewed 4877 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:21 pm

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Somewhere Else
Cycle one of those edges around the whole face in a star-shaped path.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:23 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Kevin wrote:
I decided to take a whack at gelatinbrain's 1.1.2. I almost solved it when this case came up. I 've never solved a pyraminx crystal. So I don't know how to fix this.
Hey Kevin, looks like you're doing pretty good for never having solved a Pyraminx Crystal before.

Here is how you can solve that situation in an intuitive way. First turn the orange face CCW so that the red-yellow piece pushes the green-yellow piece out of place. Now you're goal is to flip over the red-yellow piece. To do that, you can use a simple 3-move sequence. Turn the pink face CCW twice so that the red-yellow piece is between the light-blue and dark-blue faces. Now turn the light-blue face CC twice which puts it back along the border of the pink face. Turn the pink face CC three times and you will see that you have flipped over the red-yellow piece in the spot originally occupied by the green-yellow piece.

Now turn the orange face CC so that you put the red-yellow piece back in it's original spot. Now if you undo the three other moves using the green-yellow piece you'll see that you have fixed these two pieces pure.

In Gelatinbrain's notation that is:

[B', [D'2,K2,D'2], B, [D2,K'2,D2]]

Where B = orange, D = pink, K = light blue

If you understand how this sequence works then you can adapt the concept to any puzzle.

For more complicated puzzles you usually want to use a 3-cycle in place of the B' twist and the inverse of the 3-cycle in the place of B.

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:32 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Recently GB added some new puzzles, some of which are not yet numbered:

3.12.6: It's like 3.12.1 with some small circles. In 3.12.6 the circles intersect with each other, making it much harder.

Six new puzzles in the 1.2.* series:

The first of them is a direct analog of Dino Cube for dodecahedron, which is edge-only 1.2.1. This is definitely a low-hanging fruit.

Five of them are just like the 1.2.6 series, but the tip doesn't move. The five versions are corresponding to the five color variations of 1.2.6.

1.1.51:

Remember we discussed about super-deep cut puzzles several months ago? The one on the right of this image (discussion in page 48 of this thread):

is finally available. Solvingwise it's essentially a very familiar puzzle. (I won't say which one to avoid spoiling)

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Check out some virtual puzzles I created at http://nan.ma

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:29 am

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:16 pm
Location: Unknown
Got 1.1.2! I ve never solved pyraminx crystal, so this is a feat for me.

 Attachments: 1.1.2 Solved.png [ 99.43 KiB | Viewed 4837 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:43 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Hi Gelatinbrain,

I don't know if it's convenient for you to make such a change: to move the statistics section from the bottom of the ranking page to the top of that page. It would be great if you can do it. Thanks.

Edit: I found GB updated the total number of puzzles to be 416. But I can only find 415. It's so disturbing.

_________________
Check out some virtual puzzles I created at http://nan.ma

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:55 pm

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:52 am
Location: Brighton, UK
6.1.2 - I got stuck! Often a scramble leaves every face with only double-turns (90 degree intervals) possible. I can usually fiddle around and pair the left- and right-handed pieces of an edge intuitively, but then the first time I try to use schuma's first algo to pair a second edge, I can't, because the moves aren't possible. Then I fumble around trying to get enough cuts to line up, peering all around the sphere feeling very confused and getting nowhere. There's got to be a trick that I'm missing. I feel that my eyes have been opened some of the way, so I'll keep trying each weekend to make a breakthrough.

1.1.51 was fun. Although it is very similar to a puzzle I have solved before, I had to use a slightly different method and an extra algo at the end. One hint: this is one of those puzzles where you need to look carefully ahead of time for a problematic situation and how to deal with it, so you don't end up with it near the end.

3.12.6 joins my list in the x = 12 group. After solving the 2x2x2 corners, the petals can be cycled non-pure with [2:C, 1] algos, then the small pieces can be cycled pure with [3:C, 1] algos, where C is [R' D R, U']. (There's a move cancellation in the second algo.) I hope to solve the 3.12.x puzzles in the near future, then I'll do proper solution outlines for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:22 pm

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Hi Gelatinbrain. I don't know if I said this before, but you have created a really brilliant program and attracted a superb set of solvers. Anytime someone creates a new puzzle and the author doesn't know how to solve it, I always think "that should be put in gelatinbrain and then it'd find some solvers."

Anyways, I've been participating in the Compy/Dino Cubiod thread and found some of the orbits in the variants to be quite strange. I'd love to see it implemented for people see how hard they are. Here's a picture of the most basic version. We haven't solidified a naming scheme yet so for now it's the B223-G122.
Attachment:

Cuboid122.png [ 5.52 KiB | Viewed 4783 times ]
The green lines are active cuts that it turns on. Red lines are inactive cuts, but still separate pieces. First thing you'll probably notice is that it's not a perfect square so it's not symmetrical. Cuts are equadistant from their respective corner however. I'm not sure if the gelatinbrain app can handle this. If it can, the next one I'm really interested in, is the B334-G233. This puzzle has piece orbits that you would think only exist on a torus.
Attachment:

Cuboid233.png [ 6.46 KiB | Viewed 4783 times ]
If the app can't handle this type yet, I'd appreciate any solvers thoughts on it in its thread. You guys are a completely different class of solvers than me so my perception of difficulty could be way off.

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Real name: Landon Kryger

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:52 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Gelatinbrain has said several times that he can't support cuboids in the current code. I can definitely understand this as handling puzzles that don't have a full range of symmetry aren't as clean to handle without a bunch of special case code.

As for the first cuboid:
Attachment:

cuboid122_annotated.png [ 8.88 KiB | Viewed 4779 times ]
• Twist the corners labeled 0 into place
• Solve the 1A pieces like Dino-cube edges (upper orbit).
• Solve the 1B pieces like Dino-cube edges (lower orbit)
• Solve the 2A pieces (orbit A) using [1,1] commutators where the corners twisted are adjacent across a long edge
• Solve the 2B pieces (orbit B) in the same way as the 1A pieces using corners along a different long edge

The second cuboid also looks quite simple but I might not be spotting all of the scenarios.

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Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:29 am

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: Vancouver, Washington
The first cuboid is fairly simple and I can see how to solve that one okay. I only show it because it's the most basic form of it's class.

The second cuboid contains the first cuboid and has just 1 additional piece type. Here's what it's orbit looks like.
Attachment:

Cuboid334YellowOrbit.png [ 12.02 KiB | Viewed 4725 times ]
And I tried several ways to untangle and flatten it so it's more understandable.
Attachment:

Cuboid334YellowOrbitFlat.png [ 6.31 KiB | Viewed 4725 times ]
I think that maybe I could solve one orbit if it was all alone by itself. But I definitely couldn't do it with all the other pieces around. I can't solve a starminx yet so what I can/can't do doesn't mean much. One stat that boggles me is that it could take up to 6 moves to get a piece from one position to another.

I'm not sure what it is that you see that makes this simple.

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Real name: Landon Kryger

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:14 am

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA

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Check out some virtual puzzles I created at http://nan.ma

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:35 am

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
This thread has been quiet for a while. Today I saw a prototype of the shape-mod and color variation of 2.1.1, in the middle of this image

I guess it would be interesting to include this color variation, either in the shape of a dodecahedron or an icosahedron.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:15 am

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
schuma wrote:
This thread has been quiet for a while
Yeah, I've been way too busy to check in as often as before, let alone do any solves. Guess it's the same with the others. But those prototypes look amazing! I really hope to see them on the market some time soon

Also schuma; thanks a lot for outlining 6.1.2! It is always nice to get an outline from the top Gelatinbrain solver Anyways, now that I'm on my mid-semester break I might have the time to give this another go.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:43 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Hey all, it has been too quiet in this thread for too long. Finally after almost a year and a great deal of help from Julian and GulityBystander I have finally finished searching and classifying all shortest Pentultimate corner 3-cycles. I could not have done this with the the help and insight from both of you so thank you very much!

If you ignore all re-orientation and symmetries there are 15 unique 3-cycle patterns. For each 3-cycle there are 9 different variations for each possible way the 3 corners can twist during the cycle. Because some of the 3-cycle patterns have mirror or rotational symmetry to them it is possible to achieve two different sets of corner twist by mirroring / inverting / rotating the same base sequence into two different versions. In the cases where the same base sequence does different sets of twists I have labeled those twists together but I have still provided each version independently for ease-of-use. I have labeled corners that don't twist as 0, corners that twist clockwise as 1, and counter-clockwise as 2. All screenshots are for the no-twist (000) variation.

For the 3-cycle patterns that don't have mirror symmetry then there is a left-hand version of the same pattern that I have omitted. By mirroring the sequences I have provided you can achieve all 9 twist variations for the left-hand 3-cycle pattern.

Also, for the sake of brevity, I have only included the clockwise 3-cycles. To perform the counter-clockwise sequences simply invert a clockwise sequence.

Below are all 15 3-cycle patterns with the 9 twist variations. Each sequence listed is the shortest possible for that variation.

Tall Triangle (mirror symmetry):

Twists: 000 (12 moves):
000 : [I2, H'2, B', I2, B, L', H2, J, H'2, J', L, I'2]

Twists: 012 / 210 (10 moves):
012 : [D, K2, A', D, K2, D', G'2, A, D', G'2]
210 : [J'2, E', A, J'2, E', K2, E, A', K2, E]

Twists: 021 / 120 (13 moves):
021 : [G, C', H', D'2, H, D2, C', K, G2, K', D'2, C2, G']
120 : [J', F2, E'2, K', J2, K, F', E2, I, E'2, I', F', J]

Twists: 102 / 201 (13 moves):
102 : [D'2, C, D, C'2, E', A, C'2, A', C2, E, D', C, D2]
201 : [E2, F, E', D, F2, A', F'2, A, D', F'2, E, F, E'2]

Twists: 111 (13 moves):
111 : [B', I', A'2, I', B, A'2, H', A2, H, B', A2, I2, B]

Twists: 222 (11 moves):
222 : [G, K', C, D'2, H', D2, H, C', D2, K, G2]

Right Arc (no symmetry):

Twists: 000 (13 moves):
000 : [G', L'2, J, L, G', H, G, L'2, J', L2, H', G, L]

Twists: 012 (12 moves):
012 : [C, D, B2, D', A, B2, D', G'2, A, D', G'2, C']

Twists: 021 (12 moves):
021 : [K', G', E, K'2, L', J2, L, E', K2, G, D'2, K]

Twists: 102 (14 moves):
102 : [H'2, B, L', I', G', I, G, L, B'2, H', B, H, B, H]

Twists: 111 (13 moves):
111 : [B', F', I, F2, I', A, B2, I', B'2, I, A', F', B]

Twists: 120 (11 moves):
120 : [E2, K'2, A', K2, A, E', K2, F, K'2, F', E']

Twists: 201 (12 moves):
201 : [G'2, C', K, G2, K', D'2, C, H', D'2, H, D2, G2]

Twists: 210 (11 moves):
210 : [C', A', H, B'2, H', B2, A, H', C2, H, C']

Twists: 222 (10 moves):
222 : [L', J'2, L, K2, H', L, K2, L', J'2, H]

Short Triangle (mirror symmetry):

Twists: 000 / 201 (12 moves):
000 : [H', G, C', L'2, C, L2, G', I, H2, I', L'2, H]
201 : [I, L'2, H', I2, H, J', L2, F, L'2, F', J, I']

Twists: 012 / 111 (12 moves):
012 : [H, L, C2, H', I, C2, I', C'2, H, L', C'2, H']
111 : [I', F'2, L', I, F'2, H', F2, H, I', F2, L, I]

Twists: 021 (13 moves):
021 : [F, J, E2, J, I', E2, J, B'2, I', J, B'2, J'2, F']

Twists: 102 (14 moves):
102 : [H', G', C, H', L', B', L, B, H, C'2, H', G, L, H2]

Twists: 120 / 222 (13 moves):
120 : [I', F2, H, F2, I', L, F2, L', F'2, I, H', F, I]
222 : [H, C, I', H, C'2, L', C2, L, H', C2, I, C2, H']

Twists: 210 (10 moves):
210 : [H, B'2, G', C, B'2, C', B2, G, H', B2]

Mirrored L (no symmetry):

Twists: 000 (13 moves):
000 : [H', L, I', B, L2, B', L'2, I, G', H'2, G, L, H]

Twists: 012 (11 moves):
012 : [E2, J'2, E', A, J'2, E', K2, E, A', K2, E']

Twists: 021 (13 moves):
021 : [C', H2, C', D'2, C, A2, H', C, A2, C', D'2, H', C]

Twists: 102 (10 moves):
102 : [C, B', G'2, B, G2, C', A, G2, A', G'2]

Twists: 111 (11 moves):
111 : [C'2, G'2, B', G2, B, C', G2, A, G'2, A', C'2]

Twists: 120 (13 moves):
120 : [F, J2, E2, J, I', E2, J, B'2, I', J, B'2, J2, F']

Twists: 201 (13 moves):
201 : [G, H', G'2, I, B, L, B', L', I', G, H', G, H]

Twists: 210 (13 moves):
210 : [E', K, E, J'2, E', A, J'2, E', K2, E, A', K, E]

Twists: 222 (13 moves):
222 : [C', H', C'2, H', C2, D, H', G2, H, G'2, D', H2, C]

Twists: 000 / 201 (12 moves):
000 : [D2, A, G', D2, G, D'2, A', G, C'2, G', C2, D'2]
201 : [F'2, B2, I', B'2, I, A', F'2, I, F2, I', A, F2]

Twists: 012 / 111 (13 moves):
012 : [G, D', G', K'2, H, G', K'2, G, D2, H', G, D'2, G']
111 : [I', F'2, I, H', F2, I, J'2, I', H, J'2, I', F', I]

Twists: 021 (13 moves):
021 : [J', L', E', F'2, K, E', F'2, E, L2, E', K, L'2, J]

Twists: 102 (12 moves):
102 : [H, I'2, G', H, I'2, H', I2, G, L', I2, L, H']

Twists: 120 / 222 (11 moves):
120 : [E, J, E2, J', A, F2, J', F'2, J, A', E2]
222 : [E2, A', K, D'2, K', D2, A, K', E2, K, E]

Twists: 210 (13 moves):
210 : [H'2, G2, C'2, B', H2, B, G', C2, L, C'2, L', G', H2]

Bowl (mirror symmetry):

Twists: 000 (13 moves):
000 : [H, C, H', C'2, L, I, G, I', G', L', C, H', C]

Twists: 012 / 102 (11 moves):
012 : [K, E, J'2, E', L, K'2, D', G2, D, L', K]
102 : [G, L', D, K2, D', G'2, L, C', H'2, C, G]

Twists: 021 / 201 (12 moves):
021 : [C', B'2, H', B2, A, H', C2, H, C'2, A', H, C]
201 : [E, J, A', E'2, J, E2, J', A, F2, J', F'2, E']

Twists: 111 (11 moves):
111 : [E'2, J'2, E', A, J'2, E', K2, E, A', K2, E'2]

Twists: 120 / 210 (12 moves):
120 : [J2, I'2, E', J, I'2, K', I2, K, J', I2, E, J'2]
210 : [H'2, C, I2, H', G, I2, G', I'2, H, C', I'2, H2]

Twists: 222 (13 moves):
222 : [F, J'2, E2, J, I', E2, J, B'2, I', J, B'2, J, F']

Space Probe (mirror and rotational symmetry):

Twists: 000 / 021 / 102 / 111 / 210 / 222 (11 moves):
000 : [D', E'2, D', E2, C, A', E2, A, E'2, C', D2]
021 : [H2, C', I'2, B, I2, B', C, I2, H', I'2, H']
102 : [J2, I', E'2, F, E2, F', I, E2, J', E'2, J']
111 : [J', I'2, J', I2, E, F', I2, F, I'2, E', J2]
210 : [D2, E', C'2, A, C2, A', E, C2, D', C'2, D']
222 : [H', C'2, H', C2, I, B', C2, B, C'2, I', H2]

Twists: 012 (13 moves):
012 : [C', D', H2, G', B, C2, B', H'2, G, D', H'2, D2, C]

Twists: 120 (14 moves):
120 : [I'2, L'2, B', J'2, F, L', I'2, L, J2, F', B, J2, L2, I2]

Twists: 201 (13 moves):
201 : [E', F', E2, F, J'2, E, A', E', F, J2, F', E', A]

Big Mirrored L (no symmetry):

Twists: 000 (13 moves):
000 : [D', E', D, E2, C', K', G, D', G', K2, C, E'2, A]

Twists: 012 (12 moves):
012 : [B, H, I2, H', F, B2, H', B'2, H, F', I'2, B']

Twists: 021 (12 moves):
021 : [J', I', K, J'2, K', J2, I, K', L2, K, L'2, J]

Twists: 102 (12 moves):
102 : [D, C, K', D'2, K, G2, C', A, G2, A', G'2, D']

Twists: 111 (11 moves):
111 : [E', J'2, E', A, J'2, E', K2, E, A', K2, E2]

Twists: 120 (13 moves):
120 : [C', H', D', C'2, H, C2, H', D, G2, H', G'2, H2, C]

Twists: 201 (12 moves):
201 : [E2, J, A', E'2, J, E2, J', A, F2, J', F'2, E'2]

Twists: 210 (12 moves):
210 : [K', L', K2, E, J'2, E', L, K'2, D', G2, D, K]

Twists: 222 (12 moves):
222 : [G, D'2, C, H', D'2, H, D2, C', K, G2, K', G']

Right Scoop (no symmetry):

Twists: 000 (14 moves):
000 : [G', H', G, H, G, L', K', D', G, D, K, L, G', H']

Twists: 012 (13 moves):
012 : [D, A'2, D, C2, D'2, C'2, E2, C', A2, E, A'2, E'2, C2]

Twists: 021 (13 moves):
021 : [G', H2, L'2, H', L2, C, G', L2, G, L'2, C', H', G]

Twists: 102 (12 moves):
102 : [F2, B', I, A2, F', A'2, F, I', A'2, B, A2, F'2]

Twists: 111 (13 moves):
111 : [G', C', L', G, C'2, G', C2, L, H', C2, H, C', G]

Twists: 120 (12 moves):
120 : [G', L', C'2, G, C2, G', L, C2, H', C'2, H, G]

Twists: 201 (14 moves):
201 : [F', E2, F2, D'2, A, F', A', E, D2, F'2, E'2, A', E, A]

Twists: 210 (14 moves):
210 : [E, J, K, J'2, K', D, J'2, K', A2, D, K', A2, J', E']

Twists: 222 (13 moves):
222 : [H2, C, I2, H, C', I2, C, L'2, H', C, L'2, C'2, H'2]

Big Space Probe (rotational symmetry):

Twists: 000 (13 moves):
000 : [D'2, C', E', K'2, A, E', K'2, E, C2, E', A, C'2, D2]

Twists: 012 / 120 / 201 (12 moves):
012 : [J, K, L'2, I', J2, I, K', L2, E, L'2, E', J']
120 : [D, C, G'2, K', D2, K, C', G2, A, G'2, A', D']
201 : [B, I, H'2, C', B2, C, I', H2, F, H'2, F', B']

Twists: 021 / 102 / 210 (13 moves):
021 : [I, B', J, B2, F', H, I2, H', B'2, F, J', B', I']
102 : [C, D', B, D2, A', G, C2, G', D'2, A, B', D', C']
210 : [K, J', D, J2, E', L, K2, L', J'2, E, D', J', K']

Twists: 111 (13 moves):
111 : [L, G', L'2, J', G, K'2, G', K2, J, G', L2, G2, L']

Twists: 222 (12 moves):
222 : [H2, B'2, I, L', B'2, L, B2, I', C, H2, C', H'2]

Skinny Triangle (mirror symmetry):

Twists: 000 / 210 (12 moves):
000 : [B', A2, H', C, A2, H', I'2, C, H', I'2, H, B]
210 : [F, J, I'2, J', E, I'2, J', A2, E, J', A2, F']

Twists: 012 (14 moves):
012 : [B', H', B'2, C', F, A'2, F', A2, C, F', B2, F, H, B]

Twists: 021 / 111 (13 moves):
021 : [G2, H, G2, K, H', L2, H, L'2, K', H, G'2, H'2, G'2]
111 : [K'2, J'2, K'2, J, G', L'2, J, L2, J', G, K2, J, K2]

Twists: 102 / 222 (14 moves):
102 : [D, K'2, G'2, A, D', G'2, D, K2, A', D, K2, D', K2, D']
222 : [D', G2, D', G2, D, A', G2, D, K'2, D', A, K'2, G'2, D]

Twists: 120 (14 moves):
120 : [K2, L, K, G2, K', D'2, J, K', D'2, K, G2, J', L', K'2]

Twists: 201 (14 moves):
201 : [B', F', I, B', C'2, I, A2, I', B, A2, I', C'2, F, B]

Tiny Triangle (mirror symmetry):

Twists: 000 / 210 (12 moves):
000 : [I, F'2, B', F2, H, I', F2, I, F'2, H', B, I']
210 : [B', I, H', F'2, B, F2, B', H, F2, I', F'2, B]

Twists: 012 (14 moves):
012 : [D, E, D', E', K', E, C, G, A, G', E', C', E', K]

Twists: 021 / 111 (13 moves):
021 : [K2, J'2, L2, J, L'2, E', K, L'2, K', L2, E, J, K'2]
111 : [D'2, A, E, C2, D', C'2, D, E', C'2, A, C2, A'2, D2]

Twists: 102 / 222 (12 moves):
102 : [D'2, A', E2, A, E'2, C', D, E'2, D', E2, C, D2]
222 : [K2, L, E2, K', E'2, K, L', E'2, J, E2, J', K'2]

Twists: 120 (13 moves):
120 : [B', C2, B'2, I', C, H'2, C', H2, I, C', B2, C', B]

Twists: 201 (13 moves):
201 : [K2, E, L, K', E2, K, E'2, L', J, E'2, J', E, K'2]

Right Crescent (no symmetry):

Twists: 000 (13 moves):
000 : [L2, C2, H', G'2, H, L'2, H2, L2, C'2, L', C2, L', H'2]

Twists: 012 (12 moves):
012 : [G2, K'2, L, D', G'2, D, K2, L', H, K2, H', G'2]

Twists: 021 (13 moves):
021 : [C'2, A', H', A'2, C, G', A'2, G, A2, C', H, A'2, C2]

Twists: 102 (14 moves):
102 : [E', K, E2, K', E'2, K, A', D'2, K, D2, K', A, K', E]

Twists: 111 (14 moves):
111 : [G', D', L'2, H, L2, H', C, L2, G', L'2, G, C', D, G]

Twists: 120 (14 moves):
120 : [H2, C, I', G', B, G2, B', G', I, C', G', C2, G, H]

Twists: 201 (13 moves):
201 : [C'2, I, F'2, I2, F2, A'2, I', C2, B', I'2, B2, C2, B']

Twists: 210 (13 moves):
210 : [J'2, I', J2, E', I'2, J2, I2, E', I'2, E, J'2, I2, E2]

Twists: 222 (13 moves):
222 : [C'2, I, A2, F'2, I'2, F2, I', C2, B, C'2, B'2, I2, B]

Long Spear Triangle (mirror symmetry):

Twists: 000 / 210 (14 moves):
000 : [J, I2, H', K', H', K, I, H, I'2, J', I', L', I, L]
210 : [A', B'2, H, D, H, D', B', H', B2, A, B, C, B', C']

Twists: 012 / 201 (13 moves):
012 : [J, I', E', L'2, E, J', L'2, E, I2, E', J, I'2, J']
201 : [A', B, E, C2, E', A, C2, E', B'2, E, A', B2, A]

Twists: 021 / 222 (13 moves):
021 : [C, A'2, G, C', A2, H, A'2, H', C, A'2, G', A', C']
222 : [L', J2, G', L, J'2, H', J2, H, L', J2, G, J, L]

Twists: 102 / 111 (14 moves):
102 : [H', I2, B', I2, B, L', H2, C, G'2, C', L, H'2, I'2, H]
111 : [H, B'2, I, B'2, I', C, H'2, L', G2, L, C', H2, B2, H']

Twists: 120 (15 moves):
120 : [B, F2, A2, F'2, I', C2, B', C'2, I2, C2, I'2, B, C'2, I', B']

Wide Tiny Triangle (mirror symmetry):

Twists: 000 (14 moves):
000 : [E'2, D, K', D2, K, J', D2, K, F'2, J', K, F'2, D', E2]

Twists: 012 / 021 (14 moves):
012 : [I', F', B2, J', I, B2, J', H'2, J, I', H'2, J, F, I]
021 : [E, F, J, D'2, E', J, D'2, J', A2, E, J', A2, F', E']

Twists: 102 / 120 (13 moves):
102 : [C'2, B, H2, A, C', H2, C, H'2, A', B, H'2, B'2, C2]
120 : [C2, A'2, D'2, A, B', D'2, C, D2, C', B, D2, A, C'2]

Twists: 111 (14 moves):
111 : [C, A', C'2, G, H2, B', A, H2, A', H'2, B, G', A, C']

Twists: 201 / 210 (14 moves):
201 : [J, F2, L', J, L, K', F'2, J, F, K', F, K, F'2, J'2]
210 : [J'2, F'2, L, F, L', F, J, F'2, L', K, J, K', F2, J]

Twists: 222 (14 moves):
222 : [C'2, A', C', B, D2, A', D'2, A, B', D'2, C, D2, A, C2]

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:11 pm

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:52 am
Rock on!!!!
That must have been a lot of work to figure out and put together in a post.

_________________
Life is simple.
eat. sleep. train. repeat.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:21 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Great job Brandon!

GB has assigned new homework: three new sphere puzzles. 6.1.3, 6.1.3b and 6.1.3c. They are circle versions of the 6.1.1 series. I have to switch back to the old school no-macro mode of solving.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:17 am

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
Very impressive work Brandon, Julian and GuiltyBystander! Thank you for putting it all together in one post, Brandon. I wonder if you could use your findings to come up with and prove what the optimal solving order is. But I guess it would be something along the lines of Julian's outline which was posted here a long time ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:55 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
schuma wrote:
Great job Brandon!

GB has assigned new homework: three new sphere puzzles. 6.1.3, 6.1.3b and 6.1.3c. They are circle versions of the 6.1.1 series. I have to switch back to the old school no-macro mode of solving.

I added the macro functions to spheres, but I'm afraid it is not much of a help for jumbling puzzles.
First, you will have to align borders "manually", unless you have a good way to predict blockings several moves away.

I like this new puzzle so much (my best work ever) ,that I made it my avatar. It's cool, no?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:26 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
gelatinbrain wrote:
I like this new puzzle so much (my best work ever) ,that I made it my avatar. It's cool, no?
That may just be the scariest thing I have ever seen! It looks great! Made a good avatar as well. Don't think I'll ever be able to solve it though.

Btw, do you plan on updating the downloadable version of the applet any time soon? Still can't get the online applet to work and there's been so many additions lately that I'd like to try out. Take your time though! I know you're very busy, but please let us know if you update it!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:01 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Katja wrote:
gelatinbrain wrote:
I like this new puzzle so much (my best work ever) ,that I made it my avatar. It's cool, no?
That may just be the scariest thing I have ever seen! It looks great! Made a good avatar as well. Don't think I'll ever be able to solve it though.

Btw, do you plan on updating the downloadable version of the applet any time soon? Still can't get the online applet to work and there's been so many additions lately that I'd like to try out. Take your time though! I know you're very busy, but please let us know if you update it!
I agree, it is beautiful and scary looking.

Regarding the downloadable applet, assuming you're running the jar locally you can just grab the latest polyhedra.jar from http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... yhedra.jar

I have a quick-and-dirty update script that grabs the latest jar as well as images:
Code:
bmenrigh@gamma ~/projects/gb_local \$ cat update.sh
#!/bin/bash

cd /home/bmenrigh/projects/gb_local/

wget 'http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/Applets/Magic%20Polyhedra/joglx/polyhedra.jar'

mv polyhedra.jar.1 polyhedra.jar

cd images/

wget -r -nc -nd -A '.gif' 'http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/Applets/Magic%20Polyhedra/index.htm'

This should also work on Mac OS X.

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Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:33 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
gelatinbrain wrote:
I added the macro functions to spheres, but I'm afraid it is not much of a help for jumbling puzzles.
First, you will have to align borders "manually", unless you have a good way to predict blockings several moves away.

I like this new puzzle so much (my best work ever) ,that I made it my avatar. It's cool, no?

Thank you for adding the macro function. It will help me a lot, because I have no difficulty aligning the cuts. It makes my life much easier. Thank you.

Edit: I found two bugs for 6.1.3:

(1) When the puzzle is re-oriented by dragging, the list of moves is not updated. (6.1.1 has the same problem. Not sure about other spheres)

(2) When I was solving 6.1.3, at the moment I solved all the pieces out of the circles, the applet asked me for my name, as if I solved all the pieces. It seems like the pieces in circles are not taken into consideration. After that I continued solving the circle pieces for a while, but the timer had stopped. Since I feel that solve is anyway not correctly recorded, I aborted it. So please ignore the record of 2303 moves and 21:56 min. It's not an actual record. When you have fixed this problem, please let me know, so that I can do a recorded solve.

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Last edited by schuma on Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:47 pm

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
bmenrigh wrote:
This should also work on Mac OS X.
Thank you very much, Brandon! It works perfectly

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:01 pm

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
After a comment in the Boublez cuboid thread regarding the number of moves to separate a piece ("Stored Cuts") I got to thinking about what puzzles have this strange property. I don't think any standard twisty puzzles (including their circle variants) have any stored cuts. For standard twisty puzzles where you can't separate two pieces in only one move, you can't ever separate those pieces. Some of the circle puzzles have this property in the form of "virtual pieces".

The only puzzles I can find with stored cuts are:
Attachment:

gb_3.12.1_grouping.png [ 10 KiB | Viewed 4486 times ]
Attachment:

gb_3.9.2_grouping.png [ 7.52 KiB | Viewed 4486 times ]
Attachment:

gb_6.2.1_grouping.png [ 10.98 KiB | Viewed 4486 times ]

I think this property makes these puzzles extra hard. By the very nature of stored cuts you fundamentally need more moves to isolate a piece than another more standard twisty puzzle. In the case of the spheres you have to do the partial turn to ever separate those pieces which can put you into situations without aligning cuts.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:01 am

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
Brandon, I think your list of puzzles containing stored cuts should also include 3.10.3 and 3.10.3b. All the sphere puzzles also seem to have stored cuts.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:08 am

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
A physical puzzle with stored cuts is my Curvy Copter plus. It is the result of unbandaging, just like the gelatinbrain spheres. In fact, any puzzle with stored cuts can be seen as unbandaged, as bandaging the pieces involved in a stored cuts gives a puzzle that still has the same (initially) available turns as the original.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:36 pm

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 7:13 pm
Location: Bruxelles, Belgium
schuma wrote:
Edit: I found two bugs for 6.1.3:

Fixed.

Maybe this puzzles is not so scary as it looks.
Actually, the circles are divided into 4 pies and not 8, because, unlike other pieces, the circles never turn by 45Â°. They either turn by 90Â° or not turn. So the puzzle consists of 48 bitten triangles and 72 pies, 120 pieces in total. Relatively simple...

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troubleshooting

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:16 am

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA, USA
gelatinbrain wrote:
Fixed.

Maybe this puzzles is not so scary as it looks.
Actually, the circles are divided into 4 pies and not 8, because, unlike other pieces, the circles never turn by 45Â°. They either turn by 90Â° or not turn. So the puzzle consists of 48 bitten triangles and 72 pies, 120 pieces in total. Relatively simple...

Thank you for fixing the bugs. I've solved the three spheres. Without the macro function, I couldn't be solving them this fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:56 am

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
3.9.1
I've been working on this puzzle tonight, (instead of doing uni work ) but I seem to be unable to get past this point:
Attachment:

3.9.1.png [ 32.68 KiB | Viewed 4393 times ]
Not sure if this is even the best approach, but I haven't been able to find any kinds of commutators for it, so I tried to go for intuition. Also, does the pieces "inside" of the puzzle need to be solved as well? To be more precise, is it enough to solve it so that it looks to be solved, but then when you rotate an axis, you see that the previously invisible pieces are not solved?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:45 am

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Katja wrote:
3.9.1
I've been working on this puzzle tonight, (instead of doing uni work ) but I seem to be unable to get past this point:
Attachment:
3.9.1.png
Not sure if this is even the best approach, but I haven't been able to find any kinds of commutators for it, so I tried to go for intuition. Also, does the pieces "inside" of the puzzle need to be solved as well? To be more precise, is it enough to solve it so that it looks to be solved, but then when you rotate an axis, you see that the previously invisible pieces are not solved?
Hi Katja, that center piece does not need to be solved. Actually none of the inner stickers need to be solved so you don't have to get the orientation correct on the face center pieces either.

I solved it corners then edges and then centers however pieces can be solved in any order without any change in strategy. I assume you've noticed that there are even pieces and odd ones. If you have an odd piece in an even spot or vice-versa then it will always have a 90 degree twist in it and you won't be able to get the orientation correct.

Because two opposite corners (through the center of the cube) overlap by just that one center piece you can 3-cycle pieces via simple [1,1] commutators of the opposite corners. I wound up using the center cube a scratch space. To re-orient a piece I'd move it to the center cube, twist it around via two moves, and then move it back.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:20 pm

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:49 pm
Location: New Jersey
I'm relatively new to Gelatinbrain solving (I think I'm currently at about 30-something puzzles solved). About a week ago I learned to apply the magic of commutators, and now I'm having a field day solving/trying-to-solve puzzles I previously didn't think I would be able to!

Yesterday I solved 1.2.6, finishing the last of the "Starminx series" (this was one of my first goals). Since I've managed to get the time and move-count records on both Starminx II and III, I thought I would post a brief summary of my methods, although I'm sure these puzzles are pretty easy for you veterans. =P

1.4.2
1. Solve approximately one hemisphere intuitively
2. Finish Centers
3. Permute Edges - (1,1) commutator
4. Orient Edges - (3,1) commutator
5. Rays - (3,1) commutators

1.2.6
1. Solve the centers and rays for approximately one hemisphere intuitively
2. Finish Centers
3. Rays - (4,1) commutator
4. Edges - (4,1) commutator

I haven't learned the alg. notation for dodecahedral puzzles, so I haven't listed the actual sequences, but I don't think they are too hard to find.

Next I think I will be trying 1.4.4 and 1.4.5.

I'm not so efficient at 1.1.5 (Starminx I). I don't know how the records for it are so low!

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:17 am

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:41 am
Location: The Blue Mountains, Australia
@DKwan
Alright you got my attention, 504 is a very nice move count for 1.4.2. I'd say it's you solving one hemisphere intuitively in a reasonable amount of moves that is impressive, i may have to give that a try.
For 1.2.6 your [4,1] commutators, or at least the one for the "edges" can be made a [3,1] to save a couple moves.

These aren't amazingly hard puzzles but they aren't easy either, there are a lot of puzzles on here of a similar level or easier but there are a fair few that are harder as well.

Judging from these solves i'd say you'll be getting a lot of move count and time records

How do you solve 1.1.5? There are a few posts in this thread about getting low move counts on it. the general method is edges, centres then rays. Edges like a pyraminx crystal centres with a [3,1] and then rays with a [3,1]. The only fancy thing i do is try and solve as many rays as possible whilst i am doing the centres and solve an entire face intuitively at the beginning, you might be able to solve a bit more intuitively than that.

On another note those circle spheres look insane and Schuma's ability to solve any puzzle you throw at him is still amazing me.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion ThreadPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:11 am

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Sandnes, Norway
Hi Daniel,

I'd say that you're doing a great job beating records so far!
DKwan wrote:
I'm sure these puzzles are pretty easy for you veterans. =P
In regards to 1.2.6, I actually think that's a tricky puzzle. Even as a "veteran" (I think I'd be able to call myself a veteran even though I haven't been solving for a full year yet) I had a lot of trouble remembering the set-up moves for when I solved the triangle pieces. I did an outline of it myself a while back, and it is pretty much the same as yours. However, I do not solve for fewest move records.
DKwan wrote:
I'm not so efficient at 1.1.5 (Starminx I). I don't know how the records for it are so low!
Pretty much what happened, was that I took on Michael's time record a while back and beat it by a minute or so. He replied by beating mine by almost 2 minutes Not sure how much faster that puzzle can be solved, but it would be interesting to find out. I also think the fewest move record is gonna be hard to beat, but I'll leave that up to fewest moves solvers, like you and Elwyn
Elwyn wrote:
On another note those circle spheres look insane and Schuma's ability to solve any puzzle you throw at him is still amazing me.
Agreed! That didn't even take you long, schuma! I wonder if Gelatinbrain is able to come up with a puzzle not even you can solve. I know there's plenty I can't solve

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