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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:20 pm 
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This mech looks like it has far too many flanges. I'm not sure if this is just something that makes more sense in a 3-D analysis of the mech though.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:47 pm 
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My Pentultimate V2 (and improved V2.5) is using the mechanism you describe as "sand", although I think it's fine to call it simply a hidden "master" mechanism, even though it's coreless.

And the Drizzle is right that making a master layer is the easy part. Keeping everything working together is the fun thing. I explained that part of my mechanism to Oskar on the train to Hakone, Japan a few weeks ago during the IPP. :D

OK, back to work...

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:12 pm 
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io wrote:
My Pentultimate V2 (and improved V2.5) is using the mechanism you describe as "sand", although I think it's fine to call it simply a hidden "master" mechanism, even though it's coreless.

It would be wrong to call it a hidden master mechanism because that would make people confuse it with the pentultimate mechanism. The outer two layers of both mechs may be similar but the rest is 100% different. Also, my sand mech can be used to make a 3x3x3 without hidden pieces so that would really contradict the mech name. Maybe the "3 layer sphere" mech?

Edt: To keep hidden layers aligned on all deep cut puzzles that use normal mechanisms, all you need to do is glue half of the hidden centers to the layer below so that they can't rotate.

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Last edited by PuzzleMaster6262 on Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:01 pm 
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It's been called a "dovetail" mech by Oskar. I think I've heard Bram call it a "staples" mech back in the day when I called it a "tabs" mech.

I've also called it a "mozaika" mech and a "void cube" mech.

But it's not a "new" mech, sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:35 pm 
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It may not be a new mech but I'm pretty sure it is not one of the mechs you listed. Oskar's dovetail mech I couldn't find that many examples for but it looked like the other mechs you listed.

My mech is different for the same reason it is not a partial knucklehead mech. All those mechs use tabs to hold the pieces together. You can see them in the knucklehead mech picture on the first page(ofcourse you know that but others might not). My mech does not have tabs as you can see in the 3d file made by Garrett.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:04 pm 
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Yeah, staples, that was the term Bram threw about for this. I knew it was something...

Sorry guy, Jason's right--it's not new.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:14 pm 
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the.drizzle wrote:
Yeah, staples, that was the term Bram threw about for this. I knew it was something...

Sorry guy, Jason's right--it's not new.

O well :)
I still don't belive it is the staples mech but I do believe that out of the many briliant puzzle designers in the world it has atleast already been thought of.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:07 pm 
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io wrote:
It's been called a "dovetail" mech by Oskar. I think I've heard Bram call it a "staples" mech back in the day when I called it a "tabs" mech.

I've also called it a "mozaika" mech and a "void cube" mech.

But it's not a "new" mech, sorry.

Tabs mech is what I'd call it (and mentioned the "tabs" movement in an earlier post).

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:58 pm 
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I have improved the "sand mech" somewhat and now I think it resembles Oskar's "Dovetail mech". It adds a hook and groove mechanism to the "Sand mech" so the puzzle does not rely on the sphere geometry to stay in one piece. This is what I came up with:

Image

Image

Image

The last pic shows the 2x2 corner that will prevent the hidden layers from moving out of alignment. This method leaves you with a lot of parts that are unnecessary but sorting through which ones are needed and which ones aren't is fairly straightforward.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:05 pm 
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The 3 layer spher mech(sand mech) I think should just stay as what it is. Your mech is a lot like the tab mech and could be considered a partial knucklehead mech.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:08 pm 
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:x

This IS the "3 layer sphere mech" just with tabs added so it doesn't just rely on the spherical geometry to hold the puzzle together!

have a look:

Original "3 Layer Sphere Mech"

Image

"3 Layer Sphere Mech" with added Tabs"

Image

This is the same exact puzzle file, just with the master sketch tweaked to add the dovetails!

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Again, it's been done before.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:35 pm 
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what really urks me still, and I'm not attacking you Puzzlemaster6262, but you seem so certain that your puzzle does not need mech changes, yet you clearly have a puzzle which has yet to function.

I would not be so quick to shoot down modification ideas. you need them. its how we all improve.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Drewseph wrote:
what really urks me still, and I'm not attacking you Puzzlemaster6262, but you seem so certain that your puzzle does not need mech changes, yet you clearly have a puzzle which has yet to function.

I would not be so quick to shoot down modification ideas. you need them. its how we all improve.

My puzzle does need mech changes, but my mech doesn't need to be turned into a different mech. If anyone has any ideas for my cross cube, please post them in that thread. Anything here is just different deep cut mechs. My 3 layer mech may not be the best, but turning it into an already commen mech would be pointless.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:25 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Drewseph wrote:
what really urks me still, and I'm not attacking you Puzzlemaster6262, but you seem so certain that your puzzle does not need mech changes, yet you clearly have a puzzle which has yet to function.

I would not be so quick to shoot down modification ideas. you need them. its how we all improve.

My puzzle does need mech changes, but my mech doesn't need to be turned into a different mech. If anyone has any ideas for my cross cube, please post them in that thread. Anything here is just different deep cut mechs. My 3 layer mech may not be the best, but turning it into an already commen mech would be pointless.
If all that was added was the dovetails, it's already a common mech.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:01 pm 
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I'm not going to push my opinion, but I still think it is different.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Cut Puzzle Mechanisms
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:56 pm 
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While the Pentultimate V2 does use staples, the mechanism it has for keeping the central bands aligned is very novel and interesting, while the straightforward use of staples, although executed very well in that puzzle, isn't particularly new.

Frequently when I say 'staples' I'm actually referring to staples with a gear added, which would cause them to always move at half rate. This is the elephant gun approach to deep cut puzzle mechanisms, which has never actually been used in a puzzle, although it directly inspired the Gear Cube. Given how well the shells approach has been demonstrated to work, it seems like a silly approach, but is by far the most plausible approach to the Big Chop anyone has suggested to date.


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