Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum

It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:36 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:33 am
Location: Westchester, New York
[Moderator: If you aren't sure, ask before you post]

I removed my idiotic statements to ensure nobody figures out which company this is. I am going to be honest, and say I had no idea what I was writing at the time, I had just wanted to post a topic.

Sorry. :cry:

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/redroost80

R.I.P. Frank (Flambore) you will always be in my memories.


Last edited by RedRoost80 on Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:20 pm
The fourteen side skewb thing is a truncated octahedron first made by Tony.
http://tonyfisherpuzzles.net/043%20Trunc%20Octahedron%20(%20Rubik%20type%20puzzle%20).html

_________________
-Jacob Hamrick
2x2 PB: 2.36
3x3 PB: 19.89


Tony Fisher wrote:
MaCheezm0 wrote:
2nd layer using Fisher parts


I very much hope you mean Fisher Cube parts.


Last edited by c1829 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:33 am
Location: Westchester, New York
ohh

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/redroost80

R.I.P. Frank (Flambore) you will always be in my memories.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2000 3:17 pm
Location: Hong Kong
I am replying to this thread on behalf of Meffert's (and to some extent Tony-albeit without his knowledge)

This puzzle was initially designed by Tony in 1999. Earlier this year Tony was broached by an unnamed entity (not my place, but he can reveal it if he wants to) to design a puzzle for them. The hex skewb was chosen. I have one of these on my shelf, and wish I could show you the photographs of such. Sadly, I don't think that company is releasing it until later this week. When the release is made public I'm sure someone will post it in this thread.

In addition to this, Meffert's has decided to release a 9 color version of this to the puzzle community. I have been working on choosing stickers for this for around a month or so now. I sent the final stickered version of this to the factory via currier on 25 May. Meffert's has not released this to the public prior to this to give the unnamed entity the opportunity to release their puzzle first. It is a shame that this KO company has once again released a puzzle (or photographs of it) prior to the originals release.

In addition to this, the same company has taken a puzzle that our own SmaZ has had made and mass produced it before he could. (The 2 layer super-square 1 referred to in the first post) Again, I was made privy to this puzzle months ago (possibly around the first of the year-my memory is a bit faulty here). I humbly ask SmaZ to show us photographs of his own design and remind me of when he first showed it to me.

Now, in an earlier posting I mentioned that said company was going to release around 60 new designs this year. This is one of the puzzles on their list. There are a number of other puzzles in that list of 60 that are currently under production-but based on past experiences, this KO company will most likely release them before the original manufacturers.

I'm probably going to be snipped for my next section, but I am willing to tempt the wrath of Dave's snipping. :lol:

Mr. Poon, the owner of this KO company is nothing more than an opportunist and a thief. In the past couple of weeks we have seen a number of posts made by witeden showing (possibly bragging-but hard to tell with written words in a forum) showing outright copied puzzles. I am confident that with this particular posters method of posting we will see more copied puzzles being shown before the original manufacturer even gets the labels applied!

These puzzles that are being made are of a poor quality-I don't care what some forum members may say. I have a number of samples from said companies, and have been around puzzles long enough to know what is good and what isn't. These aren't! They may turn nicely, they may "cut corners", but the bottom line is, they are not made from good materials. Many of these are made from reground plastics. They are not virgin ABS, and it does make a difference. In addition to this, there are no safety specifications for these puzzles-i.e. the companies can add whatever they like to the plastics. Many have chemical contents in them that are unsafe for children. They would not pass US, European, or Japanese standards! (Ever wonder why you don't see them in stores? :roll: ) And FYI, this KO cube, the core-which is depicted below-broke upon reassembly!

I would like to strongly suggest that we as a community boycott this particular company. You, we want new puzzles, that is a given, but in the past month I have obtained puzzles that have been outright taken from Tony Fisher, Aleh, Adam, and a number of others. Some of these are in the process of being made through companies that will compensate the designers-sadly, this KO company and 2 others are not giving any money back to the designers.

Some of the companies have said they will give a royalty to the designer-fair enough, but here is the problem with this. In China, there is no quantity control. I'll use Meffert's again as an example. Because it is a Hong Kong based company, they must account for every ounce of ABS that goes through the factories. Both upon importing the material and exporting the materials. Therefore, every puzzle made is accounted for. The companies in China do not have this accountability. So they often tell the designer that the puzzle did not sell well, or that they only made a small batch of puzzles-an example of this is the master pyramorphix released by Meffert's and Copied by [various KOcompanies]. Meffert's was able to give some back to the designer, but the KO companies still claim these puzzles are not selling well. Hence-no money being released to the designer!

If you want to continue to see new puzzles being released, stop buying puzzles from this company!!! Should Dave allow it, i will later edit this to name the company.

I end this post with photographs of the puzzles on my shelf! Photographs of the mechanisms, (although doctored in some cases to keep the unknown entity unknown :lol: )

Attachment:
File comment: Meffert's hex cube-Rox colors
5 may109.jpg
5 may109.jpg [ 315.34 KiB | Viewed 7201 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: meffert's hex cube unstickered
Meffert's hex cube sticered-Rox colors
Meffert's hex cube white-unknown entity
Copy hex cube

hex skewb 0003-edit.jpg
hex skewb 0003-edit.jpg [ 289.41 KiB | Viewed 7201 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Meffert's core
hex skewb 0004.jpg
hex skewb 0004.jpg [ 264.48 KiB | Viewed 7201 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Copy core
hex skewb 0013.jpg
hex skewb 0013.jpg [ 315.33 KiB | Viewed 7201 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: From Uwe
Hex skewb0018.jpg
Hex skewb0018.jpg [ 33.42 KiB | Viewed 7201 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: With labels
Hex skewb0022.jpg
Hex skewb0022.jpg [ 332.42 KiB | Viewed 7201 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Twins
Hex skewb0021.jpg
Hex skewb0021.jpg [ 65.5 KiB | Viewed 7201 times ]

_________________
Rox's Rambling Blog
Katsmom's Puzzling Videos


Last edited by katsmom on Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
katsmom wrote:
...
Should Dave allow it, i will later edit this to name the company.

...
This sounds a bit confusing to me. The thread is about XXX puzzles. Is XXX not the mentionend company?
The way you talk about "this company" or "name the company" suggests that it is not XXX. Or do I understand something completely wrong? What does XXX stand for?

EDIT: Nice puzzle, BTW. Can we buy it at Meffert's soon?

EDIT2: Following Klara's advice I replace the name of the company in the original title of this thread by XXX
Klara wrote:
PS. Konsassen: I believe the moderator simply forgot to remove the name of the company from the title of this thread. Perhaps it would be better to edit out the company name from your post until Dave can give his response. ;)
While I'm editing this the original name is still in the subject of this thread.
[Yes, I missed it and it got copied in all responses. Fixed.]

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Last edited by Konrad on Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
Thanks Rox.
I will shortly be making a full post about The Hex Skewb / Truncated Octahedron. I am waiting until I am certain that the "unnamed entity" as Rox puts it has in fact released them. Although the puzzle itself is far from exciting I think it will come as a surprise as to who the unnamed entity is. Especially after some posts I have read on this forum. It certainly surprised me when I received the email from them earlier this year.
The unnamed entity's version will look very different to Meffert's so those people buying the KOs may well be disappointed when they see the official one.

To clarify-
Legit company will be selling a very special version. Details to follow.
Meffert will sell standard coloured version.
KO company has jumped in selling KO versions

_________________
Image


Last edited by Tony Fisher on Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:07 pm
Rox, thanks for the heads up and for keeping us informed about the KO situation (we all know how busy you are). :)

katsmom wrote:
If you want to continue to see new puzzles being released, stop buying puzzles from this company!!! Should Dave allow it, i will later edit this to name the company

I am not sure that specifically naming a KO company in order to boycott it would be any more helpful than just informing people that the only legal copies are made by Company X, and asking them not to buy the KO versions from other companies. By naming a company we would in some sense also indirectly be giving them advertisement for their products. I personally don't like seeing any of my money going to the producers of KO puzzles, but should a company which produces KO puzzles also decide to try to release some original and legitimate puzzles, it might be beneficial to encourage such behavior by only boycotting their KO products...

But let's avoid starting a new KO discussion and just wait to see what Dave has to say on this matter. ;)

Klara

PS. Konsassen: I believe the moderator simply forgot to remove the name of the company from the title of this thread. Perhaps it would be better to edit out the company name from your post until Dave can give his response. ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Chichester, England
It's always competition, and in fact a race between Meffert's and the KO companies. Seriously, I think that as this is happening with very slight time differences between them, I think Meffert's should design a "puzzle" (that costs a lot to make and doesn't even work (OK, that may not happen, but something along those lines.)) So that KO producers can loose somewhat of a lot of money, slowing down their prouction.

_________________
3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:07 pm
Konsassen wrote:
While I'm editing this the original name is still in the subject of this thread.

Yes, I realize that, and have already sent Dave a PM about looking into this topic. I was only hoping to save him the work of having to remove all the references to the KO companies in this thread, should he decide that this would be the proper action to take. He is such a nice guy who has had plenty of KO issues to deal with on the forum lately, so thanks for helping out and editing your post. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:00 pm
Judging by Rox's pictures, the legitimate version appears to have some crazy color scheme.

Rox, please stop putting that lavender-ish color next to the pink color. The contrast between them is 10 times worse then the old color scheme (which really wasnt bad). It's a terrible scheme

_________________
Sanity is only the commonly accepted level of insanity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Klara wrote:
Konsassen wrote:
While I'm editing this the original name is still in the subject of this thread.

Yes, I realize that, and have already sent Dave a PM about looking into this topic. I was only hoping to save him the work of having to remove all the references to the KO companies in this thread, should he decide that this would be the proper action to take. He is such a nice guy who has had plenty of KO issues to deal with on the forum lately, so thanks for helping out and editing your post. :)
Your posts make it clear that in the original title "New XXX puzzles", the XXX stands for the name of this company in katsmom's post, right?

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Canada
The Skewb Hex as they are called are now available on Mefferts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Shelby Township, MI. USA
Gene wrote:
The Skewb Hex as they are called are now available on Mefferts.

At least they have it in black (which I'll order). I still want to know what happened to the black Master Pyramorphinx.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Chichester, England
Yay! Something else to add onto my list of things to get from Meffert's. As soon as the void Skewbs come out, then I can do my order. It's annoying though, (going a wee bit off topic) but the Black Pyraminx Crystals are out of stock. I have one, but I would have also of liked to some mods on them, and I would have prefered to do them in black. Nevermind.

Back to topic: They look great, I can't wait to get mine!

_________________
3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
Gene wrote:
The Skewb Hex as they are called are now available on Mefferts.
I've ordered one. Usually new products show up under "Puzzle Info". For this one, I had to do a search for "Skewb Hex".
I have paid but did not get a confirmation email and my customer login does not schow it. I hope, though, that it is OK.
And just now, I've recieved a Jades newsletter announcing it.

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:38 pm
Location: Dallas, Texas
I have to agree with rox on this point. We should boycott all of the ko companies ([boycott list removed for the moment] etc). I am finally fed up with all the amazing designs that have been pillaged by these companies. If anyone else is with me add your name to the list.

1. Drew11


Ps. If one of the companies listed above is no longer in trouble for ko'ing, tell me and I will remove it (I am not that up to date with all of these. I know that c4u ko's puzzles regularly (teraminx, petminx,etc...) and [removed] was in trouble for ko'ing chino's dodec. Among others)
[Moderator: In the interests of accuracy, the C4Y teraminx and petaminx are not KOs. This has been discussed, see this post for my thoughts although reading the entire post would be better.]

_________________
My Shapeways shop: http://www.shapeways.com/hisdesign?user_id=37279

Mourning my Grandfather


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2000 3:17 pm
Location: Hong Kong
I'm disgusted by this, mostly for Tony in this example. I know the work he went through and can't wait to see the shock on some of your faces (through the written replies :lol:) when that unknown entity is made public.

Just to let you all know, immediately after hitting the submit button, my next step was to report myself :shock: :lol: . I know my post borders on violation of policy and hence felt obligated to report it.

Emarx, the photo with the pink and lavender says "Rox colors" And that is what it is! My colors. One of a kind puzzle that you will never get your hands on. We (and by that I mean Uwe and myself) like those colors. When we get the first mold tests and sticker tests we put them on the puzzle to see how it looks. If it doesn't work-the colors get changed and I get the test puzzle. In this case, pink and lavender didn't work for us. Have no fear those colors are not there. That doesn't mean they won't be on future puzzles. The feedback that Meffert's has gotten is that people other than me like those colors! Expect to see them again on a future puzzle!

Klara, I see your point of saying xx company is producing xx puzzle so don't buy it from anyone else. The problem with this is that Uwe doesn't want some of these puzzles made public yet because there has already been so much flack about "we don't have a puzzle a month". That has caused him great pain. I know the problems we have had getting these out on time, and I know it bothers him. Again there will be 12 puzzles before the end of the year. (I won't list them for fear of letting you know an upcoming puzzle :lol: ) as Klara said, I'm busy right now and simply don't have the time to visit Uwe's website to see what has been released.

Because of these companies, we now have the problem of setting the price-in the News letters Uwe continuously states he is heavily subsidizing the price of puzzles. This is a perfect example. I offered up the price of $20 for them, but it has been expected that the KO company will sell for around $10. That means to be able to sell Uwe will have no choice but to loose money on this puzzle. So that is just one more reason to purchase from the original manufacturer. Jing (Uwe's wife) and I had a long talk about how much money is being lost on these puzzles-it's not that they want to make a fortune on them (I think they did that back in the 80's and Jing is very money savvy so I'm sure they aren't paupers) But they can't continue to make puzzles and loose money. If this trend continues-we may come to a time when we see no new puzzles coming out of Meffert's something none of us want!!!

So again, I say: stop buying puzzles from this company!!! Or very seriously-you won't be getting high quality good puzzles from Meffert's. (Standard disclaimer, these are my thoughts and may not reflect the thoughts of Mefferts.com)

_________________
Rox's Rambling Blog
Katsmom's Puzzling Videos


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA
Sigh. Not an easy issue. And I am at work, so my response will have to wait so I have time to consider the issue properly with the Admins.

Our existing policy is well meaning but has some consequences that make things awkward. Hopefully we can come up with some new guidelines that match our goals and values but are also practical.

In the mean time I have corrected my mistake of leaving the KO producer name in the title. Had I caught it last night it would not have been copied into everyone's subsequent post... :( I have also done some basic editing to remove KO producer names.

Dave

_________________
Image
LitwinPuzzles.com has info on my puzzles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:00 pm
I was one of the people complaining about the puzzle a month thing, so if you could pass my apologies onto Uwe I'd be very grateful. He's made up for it tenfold the past two months.


I like those colors as well, but next to eachother doesn't make sense to me. The flowerminx, for example. The colors are too close to be put next to eachother. It's like putting a very light yellow next to white.


But I'll buy the puzzles anyway, regardless of scheme :)

_________________
Sanity is only the commonly accepted level of insanity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:38 pm
Location: Dallas, Texas
Quote:
In the mean time I have corrected my mistake of leaving the KO producer name in the title. Had I caught it last night it would not have been copied into everyone's subsequent post... I have also done some basic editing to remove KO producer names.


I'm sorry for making work for the moderators. I was only stating my frustration about all the ko'ing.

_________________
My Shapeways shop: http://www.shapeways.com/hisdesign?user_id=37279

Mourning my Grandfather


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:38 pm
Location: Brazil
Is this the exact same puzzle as the Skweb Diamond?

Paulo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:00 pm
Same exact puzzle solving wise. Just with truncated tips.

_________________
Sanity is only the commonly accepted level of insanity.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:32 pm
Location: Tokyo
Well, here's how clear this situation is now:

Don't buy puzzles made by one company. We're not going to tell you which company. If you guess wrong, you're doing a baaaad thing.

At least it's better than what governments do. They say things like: Don't do X. We're not going to tell you what X is. If you guess wrong, we'll assassinate you.

_________________
May the force not be with you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
ndiamond wrote:
....Don't buy puzzles made by one company. We're not going to tell you which company. If you guess wrong, you're doing a baaaad thing.
Yeah, not so satisfying! :roll:
Somebody had proposed making a list of KO companies and KO products. This didn't seem acceptable then.

Can we turn it around and the moderators/admins provide a list of OK companies and OK puzzles?
Whenever somebody is aware of new KO products where an OK source does exist, he /she could post to a specified thread and the list would be updated.

I hope, that in the specific case of the Skewb Hex not much damage has been done. Fortunately at the same time the newsletters from Jades and Mefferts came in. I have not seen a source, where a westerner could buy a KO copy. So, that's good.

And we all are waiting breathlessly to hear the name of the unnamed entity. :D

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:50 pm
konsassen wrote:
And we all are waiting breathlessly to hear the name of the unnamed entity. :D


Yes, the suspense is killing me. Who is it? :-)

_________________
My Mods on Flickr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
roger wrote:
konsassen wrote:
And we all are waiting breathlessly to hear the name of the unnamed entity. :D


Yes, the suspense is killing me. Who is it? :-)


To be honest the KO thing hasn't bothered me too much (I object to it but won't get upset by it) because this project is about the unnamed entity and that version. This plain coloured version is just an extra/bonus. I haven't seen the KOs but assume they are similar to the version Meffert is selling and not the unnamed entity's. Perhaps someone could send me a PM with the link.
It would be improper to reveal the identity at this stage. I will as soon as I can along with links to where they can be purchased. Some people will not even have heard of the entity, some people will know them well but most I suspect will be amused.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
UPDATE: It's just been revealed. New post + thread to follow shortly.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA
ndiamond wrote:
Well, here's how clear this situation is now:

Don't buy puzzles made by one company. We're not going to tell you which company. If you guess wrong, you're doing a baaaad thing.
Well, I think you have been around long enough and read enough KO threads to know that is not what we have said. It may be convenient to put words in our mouths to claim how silly they are but that doesn't make it so.

We have been clear, in numerous posts, that this forum is not telling or trying to tell people what they can or can not buy. We have certainly pointed out some of the adverse affects such actions will have on our friends, and therefore why we have chosen to try to respect designers by not helping people find sources of KO puzzles.

Plenty of people have posted on the forum that you should not buy KO puzzle and it is a baaaad thing, but I don't think you will find they are a forum moderator or admin. They are forum members expressing their views and whether or not the moderator or admins might agree we have chosen not to make this site policy.

So our policy is "Don't link to KO products", and has been somewhat extended by the spirit of the law to "Don't name makers of KO products in the context of the KO product" as it is basically the same thing.

Of course this policy isn't perfect. Plenty of producers out there make but KO and non-KO puzzles and we're not saying you can't name them for their non-KO work. Context matters.

We are also not saying everyone has to know everything about the puzzle market and what might or might not be considered KO. What we have asked is that if you are not sure, ask first. This is a matter of respect we are asking.

If you see a production puzzle of what seems to be a design of another builder, check with us before announcing it and its producer. Maybe it is an authorized puzzle, maybe it is an open design, maybe it is KO or maybe it is a very grey area. Help us respect designers by checking first so a KO isn't advertised on our forum in front of the designers face for a day or so until I can look into the issue (I have to sleep and work and many posters are in other timezones). No one will be terribly harmed by waiting a bit to check on something. People have very little patience these days.

Dave

_________________
Image
LitwinPuzzles.com has info on my puzzles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA
konsassen wrote:
Somebody had proposed making a list of KO companies and KO products. This didn't seem acceptable then.

Can we turn it around and the moderators/admins provide a list of OK companies and OK puzzles?
Whenever somebody is aware of new KO products where an OK source does exist, he /she could post to a specified thread and the list would be updated.
Regarding KO black lists or white lists:

Creating a list of KO puzzles (a blacklist) with their makes is a very direct way of helping people know what to avoid if they choose to respect designers. But it is not an overly respectful way to those designers because it is a shopping list for those who choose not to.

Creating a list of designer approved puzzle sources for those puzzles that have KO versions (a white list) is perfectly acceptable and a great idea. This way if anyone sees something that seems like a possible KO they can check the list and if it isn't the authorized producer they know. For puzzles that aren't in the list, one would want to check with the moderator/admins to check about it of course.

I would like to create this and will try to find some time to do so. I think this would work better as a closed topic with a singular list and have people PM me the suggestions rather than an open topic where people have to scan many posts and I have to worry KO links get left there until I can weed them out.

Dave

_________________
Image
LitwinPuzzles.com has info on my puzzles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:32 pm
Location: Tokyo
katsmom wrote:
If you want to continue to see new puzzles being released, stop buying puzzles from this company!!! Should Dave allow it, i will later edit this to name the company.

drew11 wrote:
I have to agree with rox on this point. We should boycott all of the ko companies ([boycott list removed for the moment] etc).

katsmom wrote:
So again, I say: stop buying puzzles from this company!!!

ndiamond wrote:
Well, here's how clear this situation is now:
Don't buy puzzles made by one company. We're not going to tell you which company. If you guess wrong, you're doing a baaaad thing.

DLitwin wrote:
Well, I think you have been around long enough and read enough KO threads to know that is not what we have said. It may be convenient to put words in our mouths to claim how silly they are but that doesn't make it so.
I DID NOT PUT WORDS IN ANYONE'S MOUTH.

DLitwin wrote:
We have been clear, in numerous posts, that this forum is not telling or trying to tell people what they can or can not buy.
WHO IS "WE"?

My ability to read has offended the moderator many times. Why haven't I been banned?

_________________
May the force not be with you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
ndiamond wrote:
...
My ability to read has offended the moderator many times. Why haven't I been banned?
Dear ndiamond, please, do not exaggerate things. From what I have read, you are a respected member and Dave does a great job moderating things. We all (we = good willing people) should help him and not make his life harder.

He considers a "white list" a good idea and everybody with the right knowledge (especially the involved builders themselves!) can contribute to this list.

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:09 pm
Location: My House
I can't disagree with Norman's evidence. Dave is a fantastic mod but I think missed a couple of posts this time. :D

p.s. Norman, I wouldn't ask that question if I was you - a guy on IAB asked that the other day and ended up permabanned. :? :lol:

Alex

_________________
If I had £1,000,000 more, I'd be a Millionaire

YouTube Account: Cubiksrube113


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:07 am
Location: Germany, Bavaria
APJ wrote:
...Dave is a fantastic mod but I think missed a couple of posts this time. :D
...
I think you should take into account that Dave has a very busy job. Not like some here who have the time to send 4.05 posts per day :lol: In average!

_________________
My collection at: http://sites.google.com/site/twistykon/home


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:07 pm
I think Konsassen made a very appropriate post about not exaggerating things unnecessarily, and that it would be good to see more people try to make Dave's life as a moderator as easy as possible. :) In this case, I believe the root of the current confusion can be summarized by ndiamond's question:

ndiamond wrote:
WHO IS "WE"?

By saying "we" Dave is simply referring to himself (the moderator) and the two admins Sandy and Jin (or the people in red and green, if you wish ;)). It is pretty clear that "we" does not refer to the forum as a whole from the following paragraph in his post:

dlitwin wrote:
Plenty of people have posted on the forum that you should not buy KO puzzle and it is a baaaad thing, but I don't think you will find they are a forum moderator or admin. They are forum members expressing their views and whether or not the moderator or admins might agree we have chosen not to make this site policy.

But I do see how his use of the term "forum moderator" could lead to confusion, since many people would probably also think of content moderators such as Rox, Pantazis etc. (the people in orange) as part of the moderator team. This is probably the way you have interpreted him since you are using Rox's post as an example. I think you will find that Dave normally chooses his wordings very carefully and doesn't easily get carried away by his own emotions on a subject (which is part of what makes him a great moderator). Asking other people to be as careful about their wording as Dave is, would limit their "freedom of speech" in an undesirable way. Besides, Rox is Rox, and we wouldn't want her any other way. ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2000 3:17 pm
Location: Hong Kong
Klara, aren't you sweet.

Just to clarify things a bit, I posted my initial response to this thread at the behest of Uwe-I was on my way out to celebrate my second successful presentation and the offer of a joint project with another university when Uwe called me. I'd have rather been out celebrating, but duty calls.

As I said, I reported myself immediately upon posting, but was careful to make sure I didn't list any names outright that hadn't been listed in a vague manner elsewhere in the forum.

My second reply, as the disclaimer states were my own thoughts. The first were not.

I am not now a forum moderator or a global moderator, but do bear in mind the forum rules when posting. There is much I left out that Uwe wanted in, but as much as I love the dear man, I won't even break the rules for him.

I can see how it would be easy to confuse my posts as being the opinions of the forum, but I am always careful to point out the posts that are at Uwe's request. If it would be easier, in future I can log into his account and post that way :roll: I choose not to because it's just as easy for me to put up that one line that says "on Uwe's behalf". I am sorry though that this has caused confusion for readers. If it would make you all feel better, I will use Uwe's account in future!

When I wrote "this company" i wasn't talking about one retailer in particular-I was meaning the manufacturer. As I've stated elsewhere, it gets blurry because of the factory--distributor--wholesaler-retailer links that occur. Add in trading companies and it is a right mess. :lol:

_________________
Rox's Rambling Blog
Katsmom's Puzzling Videos


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA
ndiamond wrote:
WHO IS "WE"?
As Klara so well points out I think we have hit the root of the misunderstanding.

I will certainly admit I may have been incorrect in my interpretation of your post. In the context of the thread it seemed you were directing your claim to the site and its staff given it is the site's rule that sets up the awkward situation.

So lets start with clarifying your comment:
ndiamond wrote:
Well, here's how clear this situation is now:
Don't buy puzzles made by one company. We're not going to tell you which company. If you guess wrong, you're doing a baaaad thing.
Who is the speaker and the "We're" to which you are referring? From your subsequent post it seems you mean katsmom and drew11. So is your point that the site should allow them to reveal the company name, or that they shouldn't ask you not to buy them, or something else? Perhaps you just enjoy pointing out that it can be a bit ridiculous, which I suppose it is. You know the reasons behind it by now.

It is probably time to revisit the issue of the different roles played by those helping Sandy with the site. This was covered here a bit back but I can understand how people might mistake anyone with a non-blue name as being a moderator and speaking for the site.

In my response I consider the "We" to be "Sandy, the Admins and Moderators". Jin is the only Admin and I (DLitwin) am the only Moderator at present. sausage steps in now and again to help out but is retired from the Admin job. His orange status is related to moderating the puzzle database, not the forum. So the simple visual definition is that I meant "We" as in "Red and Green names".
[Admin note: This represents the Admin and Moderator status at the time of the post. This may be confusing to readers now as I (DLitwin) am now an Admin and katsmom is now a Moderator. So please read this in the context of the time it was written.]

ndiamond wrote:
My ability to read has offended the moderator many times. Why haven't I been banned?
I think literacy is great and can't imagine being offended by yours. I might, from time to time, find the tone or content of a post to be directly goading or less than convenient (see the "exaggerating" comments by others) but far from offending. If people were banned just for being sarcastic or making my job inconvenient our membership might be lower. I believe being offered the job of moderator was partially due to not being that petty. If you were truly deemed offensive that would be grounds for a ban. Reviewing rule #6 we can see that offensive conduct is clearly forbidden but sarcasm is a grey area.

Dave :)

_________________
Image
LitwinPuzzles.com has info on my puzzles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
Can I say Dave that you are doing a great job. I believe it is impossible to steer a correct, fair, consistant and logical path through the KO maze but you have done your damnedest to do so.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:14 am
Hi. I fine this thread to be very educational. I am sort of new to all of this and a new member of these forums. I am not new to twisty puzzles, as I was into them from back win the Rubik’s cube first came out. But I spent 20 years away from them. About 2 to 3 years ago. I heard on the news. that the Rubik’s cube was coming back. So I searched all of the stores where I live for the Rubik’s Professor. No one knew what I was talking about. So I phoned around and found a store in a city next to where I lived. I asked them if they had a Rubik’s Professor. They did not know what I was talking about so I explained that it was a Rubik’s cube with 5 rows by 5 rows. They replied, yes we have some of them. So I asked for instructions on how to get there, and had one before the night was out. I was back into cubing.

Since then. I discovered the V-Cube. but I could not fine any place in or around where I live who had one or even heard of one. So I asked a friend to order it from the internet for me. Man is that a grate cube. I very much enjoy solving it in public. And the reaction that I get from people.

Recently, I have re-activated my credit card, opened a pay-pal & e-bay account. And in the past 2 months or so, I have spent almost $700.00 or so, on twisty puzzles. So that is why I fine this thread so interesting. It makes me wonder if I am buying the right ones. I know that there is a very big puzzle that I want, available. (No names mention) But thanks to these forums, I am resisting buying it because I don’t think that it is the authentic one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:33 am
Location: Westchester, New York
Les wrote:
Hi. I fine this thread to be very educational. I am sort of new to all of this and a new member of these forums. I am not new to twisty puzzles, as I was into them from back win the Rubik’s cube first came out. But I spent 20 years away from them.


I agree. I have also learned how serious KO puzzles are. No matter how anxious I am for a V-Cube 11 and a V-Cube 9, I have always been staring at the KO 9x9x9 and 11x11x11. I realized though, that they are KO puzzles, and I should not buy them, no matter how anxious I am for the v-cubes. (which I hope the new v-cubes will be released soon, so everybody can stop buying these KO puzzles).

My main argument with some of my friends is the fact of affordability. Notice how the original 14-color Rainbow cube sells for $35-$40. But a KO version would sell for... lets say... $12? They do feel bad about ruining many companies' profit, but they do not have the money to buy the original thing.

I made a mistake, not realizing Meffert was soon going to release this skewb puzzle shortly after I posted the KO company that was selling it.

If you can't afford a puzzle, but you really want it, just remember that the prices can change. Take the v-cube set for example. I purchased mine at $144. The v-cube set now sells for like $80-$100. Cube4You and MF8 created a Teraminx that normally sold for $112-$130. There are some websites that sell them for $75. What an extreme deal (hint hint)! Now meffert's has offered to do a puzzle survey to sell it for $63.

My point is that patience is a virtue, and I think a majority of us have learned from this [stupid mistake] topic I posted. I need to think about what I am going to write before I write it.

But here is my question, and I will leave it to the puzzle experts to answer it for me. Is it still considered "bad" if I purchase a KO puzzle to make a puzzle mod for my collection? For example, I purchased a KO Rainbow Cube to make a Dino Cube, due to the fact my money is scarce. I have not sold the puzzle, and I am not thinking about selling it. EVER. It is a really nice puzzle, but when I play with it, I feel a little sorry because I purchased a KO to make it. Should I feel bad about this?

I don't want to begin a huge war against KO puzzles, but I think we need to put our heads together to make a few innovative ideas to reduce the massive KO puzzle production.

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/redroost80

R.I.P. Frank (Flambore) you will always be in my memories.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
RedRoost80 wrote:
Is it still considered "bad" if I purchase a KO puzzle to make a puzzle mod for my collection?


It makes no difference to the copyright owner of a puzzle what you do with it. A purchase is a purchase. I would love to get some KO puzzles to destroy on video but it would be wrong to buy them.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:33 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
This is a great thread to learn about the effects of KO buying, in my opinion. I, however, believe that the TP forum itself needs to somehow take more protective measures against itself from KO companies, since in the Mefferts news letter it actually stated that KO companies are using this site to create KO puzzles, which astounds me. Not in shock, but in horror. I'm really just putting this out there, and by reading the other conflicting posts, I will say that this is just my personal opinion and not a direct order of any kind.

Also, if anybody is still fussing about the whole color scheme thing, I'd be happy to produce stickers with a more liked scheme.

_________________
NEEDS MORE LUBIX

My Youtube and Shapeways


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:33 am
Location: Westchester, New York
Thanks for the tips Tony, and I kind of agree with Mindstorm. I don't want to start a whole debate, and as others have mentioned, a war against KO puzzles, but this topic is very educational about KO puzzles. I reread Meffert's newsletter, and I think we should figure out a way to make TP a little more private. For example, as I have seen on some of the gaming forums for Xbox 360 that I use, if you are not signed in, and don't have a certain amount of Forum posts (10 posts to view pics and website links) then you cannot view the website links and photos, to ensure privacy to the forum only. all guests will still be able to read topics and stuff.

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/redroost80

R.I.P. Frank (Flambore) you will always be in my memories.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:37 pm
RedRoost80 wrote:
Thanks for the tips Tony, and I kind of agree with Mindstorm. I don't want to start a whole debate, and as others have mentioned, a war against KO puzzles, but this topic is very educational about KO puzzles. I reread Meffert's newsletter, and I think we should figure out a way to make TP a little more private. For example, as I have seen on some of the gaming forums for Xbox 360 that I use, if you are not signed in, and don't have a certain amount of Forum posts (10 posts to view pics and website links) then you cannot view the website links and photos, to ensure privacy to the forum only. all guests will still be able to read topics and stuff.


Problem is that it's easy to infiltrate. You just bide your time and soon you are a trusted member.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:06 am
I am doing wholesale.
Can I buy and sell KO-s, if I pay the original inventor ~7% royalty?...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
If you reach some kind of agreement with the inventor (I don't think there are too many who'd accept such an offer, though) regarding the sale of his puzzles then I don't see any reason why you couldn't.

_________________
Tom's Shapeways Puzzle Shop - your order from my shop includes free stickers!
Tom's Puzzle Website


Buy my mass produced puzzles at Mefferts:
- 4x4x6 Cuboid for just $38
- Curvy Copter for just $18
- 3x4x5 Cuboid for just $34


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA
A few thoughts below. We're getting away from the original topic but for now we are covering some interesting ground so as long as we keep it rational and polite that is probably OK as I'm not sure I want to start another topic for this.

As Tony mentioned we can't well protect the forum and keep it useful for valued members. In fact attempting to do so would probably drop the majority of our membership. Who can you trust? I only joined in late 2006 so I am pretty young to some members. People want to share their work with those who will appreciate it, but that means making it available to those who might not.

Using the site to advertise KO puzzles is something we don't want to allow. It turns out this is far more complicated than one would like. Many producers and puzzle sellers are involved in KO and non-KO puzzles. If we were to ban anyone who has any involvement with KO puzzles this would hit a lot of people, some of whom you might not have considered. And this all assumes there is an agreed upon KO definition, which is a problem of its own. What if a known reputable seller finds a new item and start to sell it. If it turns out later someone claims to have built it first and wants it considered KO then suddenly the site has to make a call and possibly ban a seller who couldn't have known. Or compromise, for now, is to keep advertisement away by disallowing information that lead people to KOs. This is highly context sensitive and a pain to enforce.

Dave

_________________
Image
LitwinPuzzles.com has info on my puzzles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:06 am
Thanks Dave.
I also believe that closing "such" thread will just make steam accumulate and eventually break off in another thread.
This is clearly not an advertising to any products, I rather see this as discussion for clarification (if anyone cares).

I would also like to do some objective discussion for the benefit of others and for clear view.
The "don't buy that thing we can't name from the company we can't name" kind of "guidenance" don't help.

Definition of a "KO company" is not set, and would be hard to set.
There are manufacturers and wholesale/individual sellers [can I say E-bay here?].
Is it an entity that
- only / partially
- do / did [even once]
manufacture or sell
- illegal / not illegal but KO to the definition by TWP
goods?

And since even the definition of such "by the Twistypuzzles forum" could be set, that can only be a guidenance and won't likely be equivalent to the Law [also consider different law systems over the world].

For example, for the 3x3x3, the inventor - Ernő Rubik for those who don't happen to know :-] - considers any non-Rubik licensed 3x3x3 a KO, I consider too.
And at least Volitar Prime does too :-)
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17348#p213043
more on the Rubik 3x3x3 issue:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13430#p160299

Let't see another example, the Void Cube. As far as I know, it is not protected by patents or any legal documents, however by TWP definition that would be a KO.
That's ok (apart from the fact that Gentosha is not being any help to let those legally distributed).
Since we're here, I am not sure that the royalty should go to the inventor, as in this case I believe the inventor sold at all/some rights to the distributor which would mean any royalty should be paid to them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:38 pm
Location: Dallas, Texas
maques wrote:
For example, for the 3x3x3, the inventor - Ernő Rubik for those who don't happen to know :-] - considers any non-Rubik licensed 3x3x3 a KO, I consider too.



Erno's patent has long expired (7 years I think). This makes it legal to produce a 3x3 without a problem. He knows that any lawsuit against another company would be thrown out of court for this reason.

PS: I am not trying to start an argument or be mean. I was only stating the point that the 3x3 patent has expired which makes all other 3x3's legal. :D

_________________
My Shapeways shop: http://www.shapeways.com/hisdesign?user_id=37279

Mourning my Grandfather


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:47 am
Location: near Utrecht, Netherlands
drew11 wrote:
the point that the 3x3 patent has expired which makes all other 3x3's legal
No, it doesn't. It makes it legal to utilize the 3x3x3 mechanism but that doesn't mean that all 3x3x3's are legal. For starters Seven Towns claim the look of the Rubik's cube is their trademark.

_________________
Tom's Shapeways Puzzle Shop - your order from my shop includes free stickers!
Tom's Puzzle Website


Buy my mass produced puzzles at Mefferts:
- 4x4x6 Cuboid for just $38
- Curvy Copter for just $18
- 3x4x5 Cuboid for just $34


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New [removed] puzzles
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Chichester, England
TomZ wrote:
For starters Seven Towns claim the look of the Rubik's cube is their trademark.


That is stupid. So say I decided to mass produce a corner turning puzzle that looked like a 3x3x3, it would be illegal?

_________________
3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media, rakaCN and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Forum powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group