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 Post subject: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:16 pm 
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The other day i had an ingenious idea, a list of puzzles if not a certain brand(ex: somebody starts selling a 11x11x11 with a verdez mech thats not v-cube brand) or made by a specific person(ex: somebody selling a hexaminx not made by tony fisher), they would be considered a knock off. This list would be published to a website i am currently creating. they will be arranged by a few categories. I'm not willing to research all these puzzle on my own, so if you would want a puzzle of yours on this list email me at antiknockoffspamlesspuzzle@gmail.com, remove the spamless.

If you do send me puzzle for the list please:

Be sure it's your design. i don't want a 1000 replies from concerned puzzlers about how the v-cube mech is copied, i only need one reply

Attach a picture of the puzzle to the reply and a description

If the puzzle is mass produced include a link to where someone can buy it

Don't send a design that is a common modification that many people produce (ex: siamese cubes, 3x3x5, etc.)

Send some proof the puzzle is protected by their rightful owner (you, who is sending the email). examples: a pantent, a webpage detailing the puzzle (preferably either a page on your website or a thread in the twisty puzzles new puzzles section.

If you send a puzzle make sure it follows the rules listed here [url]http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12721/url] to be protected by their rightful owners.
Quote:
Puzzles considered "protected by their rightful owners" includes, but may not be limited to: all puzzles currently in production by their rightful owners, all new puzzle designs and variations created within the last 5 years, and any older designs still being "reserved" by the rightful owner


thats basically all that is to it. When i finish this i will post a new thread with a link to the list, a link to this thread, and a microsoft word document of the list. Also this will likely take several months to finish. Opinions about this and recommendations would be appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Location: Hong Kong
I'm not sure I understand your thinking. If you list the websites where these KO puzzles are being sold, isn't that the same as telling people where to buy them? If this is the case, I'm pretty sure your post thread will be deleted, because even though it is not directly linking people to a KO website via this forum, you would be using TP as a platform to direct people to a KO source.

If people want to buy KO toys-let them do the work. Why do it for them.

As an example, I use a website dedicated to academic books to scroll through and look for usefulness. If I find something I like, I list the author/title/isbn and have the department order it (or buy it myself if I really need it). Everyone in the office knows I have found a goldmine, but when they ask for the URL, I always tell them it is "from Russia with love" Why? Because full books are on that site-all are downloadable, and none of them are open source. If anyone wants it, they will hunt for it themselves. I'm not giving away a site where I know the authors aren't getting their dibs.

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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:01 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
I'm not sure I understand your thinking. If you list the websites where these KO puzzles are being sold, isn't that the same as telling people where to buy them? If this is the case, I'm pretty sure your post thread will be deleted, because even though it is not directly linking people to a KO website via this forum, you would be using TP as a platform to direct people to a KO source.

If people want to buy KO toys-let them do the work. Why do it for them.

As an example, I use a website dedicated to academic books to scroll through and look for usefulness. If I find something I like, I list the author/title/isbn and have the department order it (or buy it myself if I really need it). Everyone in the office knows I have found a goldmine, but when they ask for the URL, I always tell them it is "from Russia with love" Why? Because full books are on that site-all are downloadable, and none of them are open source. If anyone wants it, they will hunt for it themselves. I'm not giving away a site where I know the authors aren't getting their dibs.


I think you misunderstand him. I believe he just wants to create a list of puzzles we shouldn't copy.

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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:04 pm 
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I'm all for that, I was hoping he wasn't going to post websites where they were available. Just asking for clarification.

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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:31 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
I'm all for that, I was hoping he wasn't going to post websites where they were available. Just asking for clarification.

I think that he is planing on posting where the legit(non-ko) puzzles can be bought

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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:32 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA
One of the challenges of our current KO policy is naming the KO puzzles.

Sometimes revealing the name of the producer alone is essentially marketing where they can be found. To illustrate this I will use a non-KO example: Saying "Meffert's Megaminx" doesn't give a link to a site, but what more would you need to find and purchase this puzzle?

The TwistyPuzzle site is dedicated to being a source of information on TwistyPuzzles which includes the identification of puzzles. To try to acknowledge the existence of KO puzzles (for database and historical purposes and so people know what to avoid) without revealing information to help people find them is not simple.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:48 pm 
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DLitwin wrote:
One of the challenges of our current KO policy is naming the KO puzzles.

.....To try to acknowledge the existence of KO puzzles (for database and historical purposes and so people know what to avoid) without revealing information to help people find them is not simple.

Dave

I agree on this point; people need to know what to avoid. Sure, there's the odd chance that somebody may attempt to use the information in inappropriate ways, but if they end up with a rubbish piece of junk, it's nobody's fault but their own. :evil:

I'm not a big fan of censorship, but I do follow and respect the rules. May I also go on the record by saying, although it has already been said a thousand times, that the censorship/knockoff policy has gotten way out of hand. :roll:

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Last edited by stardust4ever on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:25 am 
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If I understand correctly, today is the first day that the rules allow posting the name of WitEden in this forum. The reason is that one particular category disappeared from their web site.

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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
katsmom wrote:
I'm not sure I understand your thinking. If you list the websites where these KO puzzles are being sold, isn't that the same as telling people where to buy them? If this is the case, I'm pretty sure your post thread will be deleted, because even though it is not directly linking people to a KO website via this forum, you would be using TP as a platform to direct people to a KO source.

If people want to buy KO toys-let them do the work. Why do it for them.

As an example, I use a website dedicated to academic books to scroll through and look for usefulness. If I find something I like, I list the author/title/isbn and have the department order it (or buy it myself if I really need it). Everyone in the office knows I have found a goldmine, but when they ask for the URL, I always tell them it is "from Russia with love" Why? Because full books are on that site-all are downloadable, and none of them are open source. If anyone wants it, they will hunt for it themselves. I'm not giving away a site where I know the authors aren't getting their dibs.


I think you misunderstand him. I believe he just wants to create a list of puzzles we shouldn't copy.


I now think I misunderstood him and agree with Rox that this is a bad idea.

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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:22 am 
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Location: England, UK
We should do the opposite, get a list of all the places to get legit versions of all the puzzles, or who to contact to get them :D


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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:18 pm
I starting to think I wasn't clear enough about the intent of this. Let me explain. I don't exactley remember the the post, but it was about something called the puzzle ninja secret hierarchy or something like that. One of the requirements was to never knowingly buy a knock off puzzle. That got me thinking, and i realized there is no resource where you can find what puzzles are legit or not (other then doing a little research). This list would have all legit puzzles and links where to buy them. The use of this is to be sure you are buying legit puzzles. For example: your browsing example.com for puzzles. you see puzzle you like, but you are unsure of it authenticuty. So what are you going to do? Well once this is created you could simply look through the categories and check if someone owns rights to this design. If someone does own the design you can find where to buy the certainly legit version. If it doesn't appear on the list then you can go ahead and buy the puzzle at example.com. I hope this clarifies things


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 Post subject: Re: knock off puzzles
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:09 am 
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mortsemious wrote:
I don't exactley remember the the post, but it was about something called the puzzle ninja secret hierarchy or something like that. One of the requirements was to never knowingly buy a knock off puzzle.


Yes, that is true. But to be a puzzle ninja, you *should* be able to do some simple operations
like web searches. I mean, puzzle ninjas get involved in finding (the most skillful in hiding)
puzzle criminals, they *need* to know their stuff without asking others!

:P :lol:

A good way to avoid buying KOs, is to avoid questionable shops with super cheap prices,
very often accompanied by super cheap quality. As they say:

"If something sounds too good to be true, then it probably is!"

Or as the Mythical Puzzle Ninja says:

"If you respect yourself, you become powerful. If you also respect others,
then everyone will recognize your power and will respect you back."

(From my experience, someone who does put some effort to respect inventors, is incapable
of appreciating puzzles anyway!)

;)


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