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 Post subject: My 7x7x7
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:03 am 
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Hello,

This is my 7x7x7 project:
http://etienne.deforas.free.fr/rubiks/7 ... 7x7x7.html

See you...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:02 pm 
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Brilliant engineering; turning the "virtual" next-to-last layer into a sphere on which the inner layers hang. Could turn out to be a model for larger-order cubes. IMHO.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:58 am 
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Took me a while to figure out what was really going on in those pictures! That's a really neat idea.

Does it hold together well during an outer slice twist or is it always on the edge of comlpete disintegration?

Sandy


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:14 am 
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Thanks for the compliments !

In the 7x7x7, the half turn of a extrem layer is quite difficult, not because of the mecanism, but of the bad molding process (pieces too thin and molding shells unaligneds) .

It is just my first prototype, but has given me the ideas ands technics, for something more usable or difficult to solve:
- a clean and soft 6x6x6, from a 4x4x4 using the same technics but with circular movements.
- a hyper megaminx, with no center ( like a 4x4x4).
- a square1 in 3D.
- ...

I will build one of these and will perhaps try to diffuse it...
If you have some suggestions,questions and helps , do not hesitate..

See you

Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:27 pm 
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I would love to see a higher order Megaminx. I can't even picture it in my head. Would it be a deep cut puzzle, but not turn through the exact center of the puzzle? Sounds crazy. Too bad you don't have access to a CNC machine so you could make precision parts.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:11 pm 
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skeneegee wrote:
I would love to see a higher order Megaminx. I can't even picture it in my head. Would it be a deep cut puzzle, but not turn through the exact center of the puzzle? Sounds crazy. Too bad you don't have access to a CNC machine so you could make precision parts.


skeneegee I found it!!! I found a picture of a 4 order Megaminx(a.k.a. Revenge Megaminx) on the form here and it also use to have 5 order Megaminx also but I don't know why that isn't up at all. I would call the 5 order megaminx a Professer Megaminx. Here's the link below.

viewtopic.php?t=611&start=0

It's on March 19 post from Tyler Robbins and thats also my birthday to(Hint!! Hint!!). I was just joking about the Hint!! Hint!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:02 pm 
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I went to that site to look at the pictures. Very Cool - so I translated the article on the right side of the page at babelfish:

http://nauka.relis.ru/cgi/nauka.pl?53+0 ... 02104+HTML

The readers of periodical know that Helen Zhukov (g. Istra Moscow of obl.) - the active reader of &.tsuot;Nauki and zhizni&.tsuot;: its name repeatedly was mentioned in the number of conquerors of the competitions of the solution of puzzles and problems of the &.tsuot;Psikhologicheskogo of praktikuma&.tsuot;. The student of the Moscow institute of textile and light industry in the free time continues to be occupied by old school enthusiasm - logical games and puzzles. In her collection not only known puzzles from entire light (photo 1), but also our own production.

The models of crystals occupy special position in its enthusiasm. Changing symmetrically geometric dimensions and forms of so-called &.tsuot;platonovykh tel&.tsuot;, under the household conditions from the cardboard with the aid of the glue, the scissors and the colored paper easily are made the most diverse volumetric geometric figures (photo 2). These are dodecahedrons, octahedrons, their derivatives, and also the set of starlike forms.

After taking as the basis simple dodecahedron, Helen proposes to you to prepare the puzzle devised by it - collapsible dodecahedron. In it three identical blocks, each consist of four identical pyramids, glued between themselves (photo 3). Blocks can be gathered together, only by shifting simultaneously all three elements to to center dodecahedron. Blocks are completely identical, it is possible to turn one relative to another them which is allowed, after taking them as the basis, to prepare several puzzles, principally different one from another.

Even simply changing the exterior view of puzzle with its production, you will obtain many puzzles, whose internal structure will be identical, and exterior view will compete on its geometric beauty and refinement. Several such puzzles you see on photo 4.

In the figures the details of the collapsible dodecahedron are shown: But - common form; B - one of 12 identical pyramids, of which consists the dodecahedron; V, G - blocks of four pyramids (form full face and into the profile). In the dodecahedron - three blocks; D - order of the glueing of pyramids into the block; E, Zh, Z, I - sticking these figures on the finished dodecahedron, it is possible to change the exterior view of puzzle.

Let the side of pentagon - the base of pyramid - be equal to 35 mm. the length of the edge of pyramid then it must be approximately 50 mm. draw development skleyte all 12 pyramids. Skleyte from them three blocks and gather dodecahedron. This you will make. Now task. Try to determine the length of edge R of the regular pyramid, from which the dodecahedron is complex, if the side of pyramid is equal and, and all apexes of pyramid converge at one point. You will recall, to what is equal the side and of the regular pentagon, inscribed into the circle of radius R? How it to build with the aid of the compasses and the rule? Answers

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:40 pm 
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edeforas, a brilliant effort. Definately the first proven 7x7x7.

Great molding pics and everything, very impressive.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:05 am 
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Thanks,

I don't know what I will do now, it will certainly depends of the availibality of some 6x6x6 , any news there ?

There are many exterior design for a hypermegaminx, somes with moving center, with some parity issues that are apparently differents form a cube !?

If you are intersted to helps on my new projects, please tell me...
I am looking for a toys that is specially difficult to do, for example, a square1 in 3d, I will show some paper draft as the idea comes clear...

See you

Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:15 pm 
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Are you planning to clean up the prototype pieces to get the movement a little cleaner?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:29 am 
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Well, if I have time, yes,

Anyway I am thinking of ameliorations thats may justify to remake one,
with clean tools also...
Or perhaps, I will make a clean 6x6x6 using the same principle and ameliorations , since the movement can be circular (easily made in a workshop), it will be more easier to do...

What would you prefer?

Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:18 pm 
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Well, since the 7x7x7 has been proven... how about the 6x6x6... then we can jump to a 10x10x10... :wink:

_pink

btw. excellent job on the 7x7x7 my friend.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:26 pm 
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Im new to this board. I am avid about collecting mechanical puzzles, especially cube puzzles. I loved the design of the 7x7x7. Excellent. Does anyone know if there are any large type cube puzzles commercially available right now? I have the 5x5x5 4x4x4 3x3x3 2x2x2. I finally solved the 1x1x1. lol. I caught some of the posts, but I was just wondering if I missed anything. My names Mike by the way.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:34 pm 
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toppercat wrote:
Im new to this board.....



Welcome Mike! 1x1x1 jokes are always encouraged here. There were supposed to be a working 6x6x6 out a couple of months ago read more about it HERE.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:46 am 
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Hello,

>Well, since the 7x7x7 has been proven... how about the 6x6x6... then we can jump to a 10x10x10

Well, I think the cubes bigger than 6x6x6 are quite the same to do (using a center first strategy?), so just the time vary.
Or we should invent new movements to solve many center pieces int the same time?

I think the 6x6x6 are the best compromise for this. And this is why I am looking too for other design ands forms (Hyperminx, Square3D)

By the way, If I have a 6x6x6, perhaps I can make a 8x8x8 ?

See you

Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:26 pm 
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that stuff's greaaaat. keep it up

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:42 pm 
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whoa, skills, will you be selling the 7x7x7's?~

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:37 am 
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>whoa, skills, will you be selling the 7x7x7's?~

Well, no.

But maybe an other one , more robust and soft , I will made it next summer...

See you


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:13 pm 
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I've been away for awhile and seeing a 7x7x7 makes me very glad to be back. When you get it done, you need to take it on a world tour so we can all hold it. Beautiful work!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:47 pm 
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Etienne - I've been looking at this since the first day you posted it. I am in awe. I've been speechless and unable to respond before now. Fabulous job. You know, we all want one of these puzzles! Best of luck to you.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:04 am 
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Hello,

Thanks for the compliments.
I think my next rubick will be specially difficult to solve.. :wink:
I hope it will be finished this summer, you may like it.
I will show photographs of it as soon as possible

See you

Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:41 am 
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Very clever. This general technique can be used to mod a 5x5x5 into a 9x9x9 as well, by filling in every other row in the outermost layer, although that involvs much more convoluted pieces in the mod. This technique can also be used to mod a 3x3x3 into a 5x5x5, which might be how one of the commercial 5x5x5s works. I have to admit to never really having looked into their mechanisms.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:10 am 
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Hello,


>Very clever. This general technique can be used to mod >a 5x5x5 into a 9x9x9 as well, by filling in every other >row in the outermost layer, although that involvs much >more convoluted pieces in the mod.

Sure, for a 6x6x6, a other solutions is to make a cut beetwen an external and a central layer (not beetwen two central layer) , and to fill it with a new layer , a Eastsheen work pretty well with this since the mecanism is not near to the surface.

The exterior would stay 6*6*6 cm but with 6*10 mm layer

See you

Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:33 am 
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Hello,

By the way, would it be nice to have it into the puzzle database (I can put it with retouched photos)?

Ok, it is just a first rough mod but it can be funny to have a 7x7x7 field !



See you

Etienne


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:24 am 
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The way that the inner pieces "bulge" to allow the layers to turn is ingenious. Very nicely done. It gives me hope that some day we might actually see these "Olympic Cubes" in production.

viewtopic.php?t=2733

By the way, did you ever finish the last two pieces and complete your 7x7x7?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:03 pm 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
The way that the inner pieces "bulge" to allow the layers to turn is ingenious.


I wondered about this also... is it a necessary part of the mechanism or was it a product of the (maybe not so precise) molding? I'm wondering if the 7x7x7 et. al. can be made w/o the 'bulge' effect?

_pink


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:24 pm 
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_pink wrote:
is it a necessary part of the mechanism or was it a product of the (maybe not so precise) molding? I'm wondering if the 7x7x7 et. al. can be made w/o the 'bulge' effect?


Without the bulge the corner pieces would be completely beyond the edge of the cube at halfway through the turn. Bulge is a clever way around that problem.

Olympicubes solve it by making everything over 6x6x6 somewhat spherical.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:39 am 
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Thank you Bram... I haven't explored this topic before... guess maybe I should quit being so lazy... :wink:

_pink


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:06 am 
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Hello,

>By the way, did you ever finish the last two pieces and complete your 7x7x7?
Yes, one is a molded one and one is a patex-original ( the color is sliglty different, but it doesen't matter for this first prototype.

I will add photos and update my site as I will have time...

See you


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 Post subject: Computer Graphics On the Loose
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:20 pm 
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Hey everybody

I've already talked to Etienne about this, and the design is a bit off I think (the ability of the slots to pass freely through the differing radii seems impeded) but I took my Rubiks 5x5x5 and modelled it in 3D.
Then I saw the wonderful 7x7x7 design, and I decided to make it in 3D.

Took a while to get the whole process down, but here's a view of some of the inner workings of the 7x7x7

Now, encouraged by Etienne, and with my 4x4x4, 5x5x5, and dial calipers in hand, I'm currently working on a 6x6x6 expansion from a 4x4x4.
The whole design should be done in about 2 days (if I get time to work on it)


Attachments:
File comment: The 7x7x7 inner workings
7Cutaway.JPG
7Cutaway.JPG [ 58.93 KiB | Viewed 6628 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:37 pm 
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Nice... but one question (actually I wondered about this a few minutes before this already, looking inside my 3x3): The outer "circles" are all very smooth, but the innermost (of the 3x3 part) have "holes" because the corner pieces are not fully round. Why?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:32 am 
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StefanPochmann wrote:
but the innermost (of the 3x3 part) have "holes" because the corner pieces are not fully round. Why?


I think it was made like that to save plastic.
Kinda like on a 3cube, there are "holes" there too.
Also notice how the edge pieces are cut at an angle.

BTW, the center mechanism is as close an approximation to a Rubiks 5x5x5 as I could make.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:52 am 
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Hello,

Very nice to see your models on Twisty !

For the 6x6x6, do you intend to use a standard 4x4x4 as a
basis (I prefer the eastsheen because it is littlest), or to remake one completely?

See you

Etienne


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 Post subject: Re: Computer Graphics On the Loose
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:08 pm 
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TBTTyler wrote:
I took my Rubiks 5x5x5 and modelled it in 3D. Then I saw the wonderful 7x7x7 design, and I decided to make it in 3D.


TBTTyler,

Nice work my friend. What software are you using to model you pieces in? I use Autocad Inventor and would be interested in trading some 3D files if you are... lemme know...

_pink


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:19 pm 
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Quote:
For the 6x6x6, do you intend to use a standard 4x4x4 as a
basis (I prefer the eastsheen because it is littlest), or to remake one completely?

Give me about 3 more hours, and you'll see :)
Yes, I'm using a Rubiks style 4cube as a kernel.
I don't have much experience with the different brands, and I'm not quite good enough at designing to make my own stuff from scratch. Oh well
Plus, I'm using the same basic idea from the rubik's 5 to design the 6cube. The inner workings look almost identical

Quote:
Nice work my friend. What software are you using to model you pieces in? I use Autocad Inventor and would be interested in trading some 3D files if you are... lemme know...

Autocad Inventor ... Yep Good eye on that!
I'm all for trading files, just contact me.
BTW, I use version 9.

Fox


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 Post subject: ha HA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:35 pm 
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I didn't notice the time, but it seems close to 3 hours later, and here are my plans.
As is the problem with most 6cubes (unles you pillow them, or you deform a twisting layer) that extreme corner is barely attached to the cube, oh well.

I didn't bother modelling the 4cube's centers because they didn't need any modifications, just a cube glued on top of them.

Extended Megaminx, here I come!
(Wow, I'm a nerd)

Fox


Attachments:
File comment: Done with Autodesk Inventor 9
6Cutaway.JPG
6Cutaway.JPG [ 71.11 KiB | Viewed 6562 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:25 am 
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Hello,

Wow, very impressive model.

For the corner, perhaps it is possible to have it less thin by rounding more the internal mecanism on the little facet near the thin corner, ( rounding there doesn't matter since there is no effort on it )?

By the way, can you export the models on a 3DS format?

See you

Etienne


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:56 pm 
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Etienne de Foras wrote:
For the corner, perhaps it is possible to have it less thin by rounding more the internal mecanism on the little facet near the thin corner, ( rounding there doesn't matter since there is no effort on it )?

By the way, can you export the models on a 3DS format?
Etienne


Way ahead of you... if you look closely, I already did that. However, If I round it more than it already is, then I would have to take that out of other pieces so they won't get caught when the second layer turns. That would mean chopping the end off of a piece or taking the fillet off of some pieces.
It would work, but I'd like this to look professional as well.


Inventor doesn't support .3ds, but I think I can use an intermediate program to convert it.

Also, if anybody else would like copies of the 3D file, I'd be more than happy to share. Just ask.

Fox


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:46 pm 
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I think maybe I can mock up a simple 3D file section on my website if anyone is interested. I have close to 50 files for 3x3x3 cube variants, skewb and a spindle version domino. Anyone wanting their files hosted on the site are welcome to contribute... drop me a line and I'll see if I can't get something online...

Probably would be best to have the native format and maybe something more accessible like .STL

Comments anyone?

_pink


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:45 am 
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Hello,

>If you look closely, I already did that. However, If I >round it more than it already is, then I would have to >take that out of other pieces so they won't get caught

A yes, maybe the rounding can be made also on the other pieces but the corner ( it is difficult to show that without a draft...).

>Probably would be best to have the native format and >maybe something more accessible like .STL
Can we have a format compatible with Blender? it would be nice.

See you

Etienne


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Hey all!
Sorry for the delay in getting all of this done. Classes have started.

Here's the deal. I know most people don't have access to fancy programs like Inventor or AutoCad, so I'm going to post the 3D files in .3DS so people can download a free viewer (Check out blender.org) and check them out.

For those of you with the fancy programs, just ask for a format and I should be able to get it to you.

TBTTyler Fox

PS. I tried adding the native files, but the .zip file wouldn't upload for some reason.


Last edited by TBTTyler on Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hello,

Thanks for the 3ds files, I will try to open it with Blender.

Any news on the real CNC pieces?

See you

Etienne


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I'm working on that.
I have contacted the Mechanical Engineering Technology department head and he has given me names of professors to talk to. Unfortunately, I am going to have to pay for this service(I was hoping otherwise, but oh well).

I'm e-mailing the professors today, and I'll see what happens from there.

TBTTyler Fox


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:43 pm 
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Does anyone think it would be possible to make a square 7x7x7 or bigger by using hooks and circular grooves?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:49 am 
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Hello,

Yes ,it is possible, with biggest center pieces, but I wanted to show that it can be square and regular, at a price that it dosen't turn very well...

I think a barrel like design would be nice , more easy to do and would reduce the global size of the cube.

See you

Etienne


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:32 pm 
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Incidentally, I wouldn't mind playing with a cube larger than 6x6x6 that was perfectly spherical. Probably more aesthetic than the rounded cube, in any case, but the cube is the best if you can do it that way.

Do you think this 7x7x7 design could have commercial applications? Would the kind of plastic normal Cubes are made of be able to support this kind of turning over a long period of time?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:21 am 
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Hello,

>Incidentally, I wouldn't mind playing with a cube >larger than 6x6x6 that was perfectly spherical.
Yes, a spherical could be nice, but less easy to handle, you need more strengh, look at Dogic for a sample.


>Do you think this 7x7x7 design could have commercial >applications?
Yes, perhaps 2000 or 3000, not realy more at my opinion.
By the way, do you know how many Dogic 2 where selled?

> Would the kind of plastic normal Cubes are made of >be able to support this kind of turning over a long >period of time?
Yes, look at the Revenge cube that have thin part in it, some work nicely after many years.

If I would think of commercial application, then a really better design can be made, but you need to make all pieces from zero...

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:42 pm 
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The issue with your design (as I see it; correct me if I'm totally wrong) is that the bulging during a turn might cause a lot of pressure on the pieces and cause them to deteriorate extremely rapidly - maybe after only 50-100 solves or less. Unless your design is better than I'm thinking...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:41 am 
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Hello,

>The issue with your design (as I see it; correct me if >I'm totally wrong) is that the bulging during a turn >might cause a lot of pressure on the pieces and cause >them to deteriorate extremely rapidly - maybe after >only 50-100 solves or less. Unless your design is >better than I'm thinking.

Not at all, the dimension of the pieces and the angle of the edges is made for this, at half a turn , when the space is littlest, there is just enough space to continue ( as you know, some pieces are too thin, but its comme from my molding process an can be avoided using a new mold)

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Etienne


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:15 pm 
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Oh, that's cool. I must not have looked closely enough...

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