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 Post subject: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:10 pm 
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OMG, he built the first 17x17x17 in the word!!!
http://www.shapeways.com/model/64058/ov ... _3500.html
sorry if I violated some rule
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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:16 pm 
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shut up


right now

shut up

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:18 pm 
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:lol:

I love his description:


Quote:
(from Shapeways)
However, the 17x17x17 design hits all kinds of interesting limits.
1) The number of pieces is 1539, which is quite a lot.
2) The STL file size and triangle number by far exceeds the Shapeways limits.
3) The 3D-printed volume and hence the price are huge: 10x10x10 cm and $3500.
4) The visible area of the pieces is minute tiny: 4x4 mm.
I used a special style to have a consistent puzzle, which I call "Pagonda style". You'll understand when you check the pictures.


You gotta love Oskar for designing something this insane.

Quote:
(from Shapeways)
Given the price, Oskar is not going to make a prototype, until he finds a sponsor who is willing to pay for a sample, and a worker who is willing to assemble this monster. Please contact Oskar if you want toplay a role in this rediculous project.


Sign me up for the assembly team!

Thanks for posting this, mu puzzles!

-Ď€ (Eitan)

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Last edited by pirsquared on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:19 pm 
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im also down for assembly

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:20 pm 
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:shock:

Someone has to make this. Would it actually function or would it be too unstable?

Alex

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:29 pm 
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I wish I was wearing a helmet, as this has just blown my mind...

This is insane... I'm literally flabberghasted


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Just evaluated all configurations: you can make some pretty snakes on it! :D

By the way: there are 6.690926 * 10^1054 configurations or

8!*3^7*24!^7*(12!*2^10)*(24!/24^6)^56

or

669092608710520096261408314575991967111408122691540707290601365294496257802119~
618956938205705136041636028689428016336273634131487726647385709719884121474908~
504692670910698985371460377688900699349198842497638186290806683678986850334593~
701338440753224464740484033975924212665646410310537811828359510439026667039347~
182757336297730724281196033862808102327432941067250179060157266025054048093556~
007135154007603434085100547748064670636958246371249119454463174658330555208369~
758612382449403973332343369712706870923838041336318861143098538193323362829868~
347779481784646568888023722509270749811402466088245770360947102010990952406412~
565132175988024238740278224215845876500391255162029122054815404278641999475767~
222218668661025073508769221156288818802031152122167665036654264459567862643991~
333029626496008847360000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000~
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000~
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000~
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Wow, it's cubic and not pillowed. This puzzle pretty much smashes the idea of high order cubes having to be pillowed. I do like the large corner pieces! Well time to save I think.

I could mention something but il save it for after I've done research.


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:09 pm 
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mu puzzles wrote:
OMG, he built the first 17x17x17 in the word!!!


Not in the physical 'word'.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Holy hot dang, this is gonna be the new Petaminx.


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:13 pm 
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At first I thought: Shouldn't this be in the "POST YOUR CRAZY IDEAS HERE!!!!!!!" thread?

Then I took a look at the pictures. :shock:

Between Meffert's new custom puzzle schedule and this 17x17x17, I seem to be getting my mind blown quite a bit.

This honestly looks as though it may work not only for a 17x17x17, but a large cube (9x9x9 or better) of ANY odd size. I'd have to look further to see if it makes sense for the even sizes.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:23 pm 
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Man, that ain't right. :lol:

Who's got the $3500?

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PB: At home (In Competition)
2x2 1.xx (2.88)
3x3 11.xx (15.81)
4x4 1:18.26 (1:24.63)
5x5 (3:00.02)
6x6 4:26.05 (6:34.68)
7x7 6:38.74 (9:48.81)
OH (35.63)

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:30 pm 
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*universe implodes*

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:48 pm 
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how much would that cost for material alone?
I still have access to one puzzle from my school, but material cost is material cost... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:55 pm 
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So funny story, seeing this literally made me throw up with excitement. I am home from school sick today and I saw this and got excited and coughed and I ended up throwing up again. So, YAY 17X17X17!

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:01 pm 
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The ridiculousness of this had me in hysterical laughter so long my throat started hurting.

I wish I had $3500.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:04 pm 
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I'm up for assemble also! That will be a fun week!

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Logan_The_Cuber wrote:
I'm up for assemble also! That will be a fun week!


I would do it, but I would have to take time off... which is kinda known as truancy... 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:33 pm 
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Yusmo wrote:
Wow, it's cubic and not pillowed. This puzzle pretty much smashes the idea of high order cubes having to be pillowed. I do like the large corner pieces! Well time to save I think.

I could mention something but il save it for after I've done research.



Well technically, all puzzles above 5x5x5 need to and can be either pillowed or with over-sized edge and corner pieces. (by the way, your V-cube 6 and 7 demonstrate both of these concepts)

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:35 pm 
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Hmmm, why have discrete layers at all? I mean with this many layers you may as well just make the whole thing out of play-doe or something, with layers made out of individual molecules. In fact it would probably be easier to separate a lump of brown play-doe into 6 pure colours just by twisting it than it would be to solve this thing:

SCRAMBLED:
Attachment:
Scrambled.jpg
Scrambled.jpg [ 2.79 KiB | Viewed 25013 times ]

SOLVED:
Attachment:
Solved.jpg
Solved.jpg [ 1.68 KiB | Viewed 25011 times ]


PS Incredible piece of engineering, hats off!

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Last edited by KelvinS on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:37 pm 
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well i have to say this is crazy...


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:05 pm 
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This is just ridiculous! Come on, a 17x17?! I'd imagine that it would take a lot of prototypes & 10's of thousands of dollars in order to make this thing suitable for solving! At least it doesn't use the V-Cube mechanism.

I can't believe someone is actually offering to build this!


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:14 pm 
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MeMyselfAndPi wrote:
This is just ridiculous! Come on, a 17x17?! I'd imagine that it would take a lot of prototypes & 10's of thousands of dollars in order to make this thing suitable for solving! At least it doesn't use the V-Cube mechanism.

I can't believe someone is actually offering to build this!


I can't believe it's not Butter!

And why not make it?


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:24 pm 
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As much as I would love to have a 17x17, I think it's just a little extreme. I mean, why not make a 9x9 first? (From the mechanism, a 9x9 looks like the next lower order puzzle based on the design.)


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:32 pm 
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MeMyselfAndPi wrote:
As much as I would love to have a 17x17, I think it's just a little extreme. I mean, why not make a 9x9 first? (From the mechanism, a 9x9 looks like the next lower order puzzle based on the design.)



Well, Why did we start off with a 3x3 before the 2x2?

The Irrigation system before the Aqueduct?

The Electric car before the Hybrid?

Because we can!


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:33 pm 
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MeMyselfAndPi wrote:
As much as I would love to have a 17x17, I think it's just a little extreme. I mean, why not make a 9x9 first? (From the mechanism, a 9x9 looks like the next lower order puzzle based on the design.)

The whole point is to demonstrate their extreme technical capabilities to market their business, not just to make a super-complicated puzzle for the sake of it.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:48 pm 
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MeMyselfAndPi wrote:
(From the mechanism, a 9x9 looks like the next lower order puzzle based on the design.)


Yes, I noticed that too. Makes me wonder if the KO 9x9x9 people were to see this would they prefer to steal this design to avoid some of the flak from Verdes. And I must admit I'm curious, while Verdes' design is more easily generalized, I *think* this design at least has a chance of making a better 9x9x9. If I had the money... which I don't :( ... I too would be more likely to buy a 9x9x9 based on this design then the 17x17x17. However I'll stop short of asking them to offer it as Verdes has enough issues on the 9x9x9 front to deal with at the moment. Maybe after the official V 9x9x9 is out this can be looked at again.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Are you sure? It looks to me like the next size down with this mech would be the 13x13

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:17 pm 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
The whole point is to demonstrate their extreme technical capabilities to market their business, not just to make a super-complicated puzzle for the sake of it.


Well okay. But I'll believe the 17x17 when I see it. :P


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:22 pm 
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elijah wrote:
Are you sure? It looks to me like the next size down with this mech would be the 13x13


The way I'm looking at it the area inside the red circle is a 3x3x3. The area inside the blue circle is a 5x5x5. The area inside the green circle is a 9x9x9. The pieces outside the green circle make it a 17x17x17. The next step up using this design would be a 33x33x33.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:30 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
elijah wrote:
Are you sure? It looks to me like the next size down with this mech would be the 13x13


The way I'm looking at it the area inside the red circle is a 3x3x3. The area inside the blue circle is a 5x5x5. The area inside the green circle is a 9x9x9. The pieces outside the green circle make it a 17x17x17. The next step up using this design would be a 33x33x33.

Image

Carl


33x33 you say?


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:40 pm 
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I think this is a subtle hint to Verdes for his 9x9x9 and 8x8x8. *cough* puzzle ninja tell him *cough*

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:54 pm 
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RoboticFresca wrote:
wwwmwww wrote:
elijah wrote:
Are you sure? It looks to me like the next size down with this mech would be the 13x13


The way I'm looking at it the area inside the red circle is a 3x3x3. The area inside the blue circle is a 5x5x5. The area inside the green circle is a 9x9x9. The pieces outside the green circle make it a 17x17x17. The next step up using this design would be a 33x33x33.

Image

Carl


33x33 you say?




he's right!!! :O :O

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:43 pm 
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:shock:
Oh! :o I get it! It's twice the previous puzzles minus 1 each time!
Wow wow wow...
If 3d printing became cheaper, it would be sooo easy to make huge cubes!

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:48 pm 
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elijah wrote:
:shock:
Oh! :o I get it! It's twice the previous puzzles minus 1 each time!
Wow wow wow...
If 3d printing became cheaper, it would be sooo easy to make huge cubes!


In a few years, it will be. I hope.


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:40 am 
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lukeharry wrote:
I think this is a subtle hint to Verdes for his 9x9x9 and 8x8x8. *cough* puzzle ninja tell him *cough*



I believe any video with this 17x17x17 should be banned from YouTube
because it is potentially harmful to the brains of innocent puzzle people!

Plus, it violates the discrete continuum super parallelepiped patent which was
filed in February 2053.

Oh wait... *re-fixes his time machine destination*

:shock:


Pantazis


PS. It would be lovely to actually see new designs for smaller cubes,
like the 9x9x9 (did I just call the 9x9x9 a "smaller cube"???).
After that, maybe the complaints will actually shift slightly away from Verdes,
if you know what I mean! ;)
PS2. The Puzzle Ninja is on vacation at the Amazon, trying to solve a labyrinth
path problem!
PS3. Now seriously, what did you expect? It is Oskar we are talking about here!!!
I am just trying to wonder what is coming next...

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:47 am 
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Oh! At first I was like "is this a joke? :shock:" but then I was like "oh, it's Oskar! 8-)". I think I am one of the few people in the world who would be able (and willing!) to do a serious attempt to solve this in one sitting. (It should take around three hours if it turns okay, I think.) I really like the 2^n design, very new and interesting (perhaps a new 9x9 mech?), but I'm not sure how it would hold up to actual use - some pieces are clearly weaker than others, and if the centers are only 4mm wide I imagine the internals would be quite tiny. Even with V-cube plastic it might be a stretch. I'd hate to be the one to break this! :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:02 am 
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17x17 pillowed =D
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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:15 am 
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:;;;DDDD;;
I coudn't stop laughing at first. HAAAA! This is seriously such a ridicilousness!

Quote:
shut up


right now

shut up


This comment made me laugh too. But it's basically what I thought of first.
No way Oscar.
I want to see this project brought to reallity. Now that I have seen the design already I don't mind anyone's building it. Nothing can shock me anymore now. If a 17x17x17 cube could kill me it already would have.
AWESOME
This made my day. I love you Oskar.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:40 am 
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love the pillowed 17x17x17...
I like the original, but there's SOOO musch contrast between the edges/corners and the centers...
Then again, it is more mind-boggling that way! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:36 am 
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I would like to see a pillowed one too. But I am sure it wouldn't look like the picture that mu puzzles postet. His picture looks like a 17x17 cube with all squares the same size and than pillowed. That is however not really the way how the higher order pillowed cubes are defined or in other words the idea behind pillowing. A real pillowed 17x17 cube that is pillowed as far as the one in mu puzzles' picture would still have longer edges, especially the middle edges . Pillowing to have all squares even about the same size like it is the case on a V7 is not even possible witz a 17x17 design any more.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:41 am 
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qqwref wrote:
I think I am one of the few people in the world who would be able (and willing!) to do a serious attempt to solve this in one sitting. (It should take around three hours if it turns okay, I think.)


In an ideal world, if this 17x17 turned as well as the V-cubes and you were able to keep up the pace, you'd solve it in one and a half hours (I extrapolated your times on the 3x3 to 7x7)


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:33 am 
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hmm... applying 1734 stickers will be lame =D


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:44 pm 
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PixelSalt wrote:
hmm... applying 1734 stickers will be lame =D

Even scrambling this puzzle would itself be extremely tedious... to say nothing of actually solving it!


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:24 pm 
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PixelSalt wrote:
hmm... applying 1734 stickers will be lame =D


Just machine cut them and use that plastic sticky sheet thing to put the group of stickers on the cube at once.


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:41 pm 
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mu puzzles wrote:
Image

This is not exactly how this puzzle would look if it were pillowed. You have to remember that the outer-center-edges would still be quite large and all other edges would gradually get smaller until you got to the corners. You have the separating lines curving when they would have to be straight. I still agree that this would look great if it were pillowed. Right now, while it is a great piece of engineering, it looks terrible in the true cubic state, in my opinion. Anything bigger than a 6x6x6 should be pillowed for aesthetic purposes.

- Billy


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:55 pm 
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^ I'd actually like to see the pillowed 6x6. I think that would look awesome too. I agree that it doesn't really look that good as a cube, but nonetheless this is phenomenal.

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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:37 pm 
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There are some rich collectors out there. Someone's gonna bite on this. It would be amazing to see this built.


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 Post subject: Re: 17X17X17!! BY: OSKAR VAN DEVENTER!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:22 pm 
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I think someone will build this as well. If they do and the puzzle works then they could probably sell it for even more :mrgreen: or they can keep it in what would be one amazing collection.

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