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 Post subject: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:26 am 
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Location: NY, USA
As some of you may know, I'm the author of the IsoCubeSim simulator which allows the user to play with cuboids of arbitrary size. I finally put in the time to convert it into a supercube simulator; as with normal Iso, this supports cuboids as well, and allows you to try puzzles as big as you want. You can download it from my Iso home page (near the bottom). Enjoy :)

My best times so far (only did a couple of tries for each):
3x3 - 0:28
4x4 - 1:14
5x5 - 2:34
6x6 - 5:22
7x7 - 7:59

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:50 am 
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Very nice!!

What is your best time on a super 7x7x7 ??

Per

PS! Is there supposed to be arrows to adjust the cube size ?? It only displays white squares right now. Setting size through the menu or comboboxes would also be nice. Supercubes bigger than 10x10x10 actually look quite ugly with the current centerdesign. Not that im really interested in that size supercubes anyway. When is the super-super isocubesim coming ? :-P

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Last edited by perfredlund on Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:58 am 
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For a simulated one it's 7:59, as I say in the first post. I did a super-super 7x7 once but it took 41:15 :P I don't have a real 7x7 supercube yet though, so I can't post any physical times.

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:48 am 
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Hi :-)

For the super 7x7x7. Do you first solve normally, then position all centers? Or another method?? I guess that a ce3 method approach would fix most centers. Some edge-pairing special cases and/or parity fixes for last layer would possibly distort some of the centers. But i guess that it's possible to limit the "damage" to one face only?? Not so hard to fix ...

Per

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:31 pm 
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I pretty much use reduction. I solve all centers first, but for the last two centers what I do (for 7x7) is make a 3x5 block on one center and then solve all of the +centers (relative to the fixed middle centers of course). This also gives me a chance to identify and fix all possible parities, since they show up in the +centers as well as the wings. I then finish the remaining 24 center pieces with commutators.

Edge pairing is pretty much the same, except you have to be careful to not do a 180-degree turn on a side with an unsolved center (you can do this normally, for example try m' U2 m on the 5x5, which will not affect centers but does cool useful stuff for edges - but if you try it on the supercube the centers will get a bit mixed up). Since there's no parity you can completely avoid all of the horrible long parity fixes. Finally 3x3 is the same as a super-3.

The little white squares are supposed to be little white squares. You can also use the + and - keys on your keyboard to change the size of all axes at once, though. And as for super-super iso... I don't think I'll make it, because that niche is already filled :P I think the 7x7 super-supercube is about as high as I'm willing to go!

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:43 pm 
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What's the difference between a supercube and a super-supercube?


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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:16 am 
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A supercube has different stickers so as to have 0 identical pieces, requiring every piece to go in a specific place. A super-supercube is a series of supercubes inside each other. A 4x4 super-supercube is a super 2x2 inside of a super 4x4; a super-super 5x5 is a super 3x3 inside a super 5x5; a super-super 6x6 is a super 2x2 inside a super 4x4 inside a super 6x6; etc.

Per, did you ever make a version of your software for mac? I only have 1 computer that uses windows and it's really old and slow.

Michael, even though I am able to use isocubesim perfectly fine, I've not been able to use this or your 3x3 circle cube that you posted in a different thread a while back. I get an error message that tells me to check my console for error messages. But the console doesn't tell me anything useful. And yes, I have the latest version of java installed.

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:47 am 
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Danny, give this link a try... if that doesn't work I'm not really sure what will.

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:55 am 
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Hi :-)

Why not add scramble/unscramble capabilities to the software? I cannot find it anywhere in the GUI/menus.

Per

PS! Why don't i carry on with my old CubixPlayer software and make the graphics nicer ? :lol: And no, that will never be mac compatible. It's not java or c++. It's delphi/pascal. I could probably make it compatible with mac by major rework of the code. I could make a kylix application instead of the standard vcl. I could then recompile the sourcecode using Kylix under linux. That would PROBABLY make it run under Mac. But i haven't touched the code for more than 5 yrs now :|

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:25 pm 
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perfredlund wrote:
Why not add scramble/unscramble capabilities to the software? I cannot find it anywhere in the GUI/menus.

Press the 'S' key to scramble. I don't know about resetting though.

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:36 pm 
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SaiyanKirby wrote:
perfredlund wrote:
Why not add scramble/unscramble capabilities to the software? I cannot find it anywhere in the GUI/menus.

Press the 'S' key to scramble. I don't know about resetting though.

just change 1 dimension up or down then put it back to what it was

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Personal Bests -single(avg of 12)
3x3-22.21(27.09)
4x4-1:28.18(1:53.49)
5x5-3:23.99(3:55.61)


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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Here are all the controls:

- Press + to increase the cube size on all axes, and - to decrease. The little white squares will increase or decrease the size of just one axis.
- Press s to scramble and r to restore. (The time will only go green if you actually solve it from a scrambled position.) A shift+s will do a scramble with only half turns.
- Hold shift while doing a turn to do a half turn (normally a drag will do a quarter turn, but if a quarter turn is impossible without changing the shape of the cube it will do a half turn anyway). Hold ctrl while doing a turn to do a cube rotation (this is normally 90 degrees even on cuboids). The shift+ctrl combination will do a 180-degree cube rotation.

Oh yeah, and the menus don't work... because I was planning to do a LOT more with Iso (save and load solve functions, BLD and multiBLD and relay modes, etc) but I stopped due to lack of motivation. So just ignore those :P

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:43 pm 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
A supercube has different stickers so as to have 0 identical pieces, requiring every piece to go in a specific place. A super-supercube is a series of supercubes inside each other. A 4x4 super-supercube is a super 2x2 inside of a super 4x4; a super-super 5x5 is a super 3x3 inside a super 5x5; a super-super 6x6 is a super 2x2 inside a super 4x4 inside a super 6x6; etc.


Thanks for this info, but how do you simulate those in this program?

(And what do you call a super-supercube which doesn't have supercube stickers?)


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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:30 pm 
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You can find his program in the files section of this yahoo group.

Maybe call it a super-nonsupercube? It's never been made so there hasn't been the need for a name.

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:27 am 
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I guess I'd call it a Concentric Cube or something. I don't know why you'd ever want to try one though.

The way Per's program deals with all the concentric subcubes is to let you view certain cubical 'layers' (like the 3x3 supercube inside the 5x5 super-supercube) but you could only seeone at a time. There is also always a grid showing you where the real outside of the cube was.

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:57 am 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
You can find his program in the files section of this yahoo group.

Maybe call it a super-nonsupercube? It's never been made so there hasn't been the need for a name.


Seems to be "members only". I don't have a Yahoo account and I don't really want to sign up just for this... can anyone else mirror the file?


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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:39 am 
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Oh well. Is it really hard to sign up with Yahoo?? They have many interesting groups (mailing lists) and the Yahoo messenger is far superior to the posh msn messenger. Oh well, i used yahoo long before msn even existed. I used yahoo games :mrgreen:

Per

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:45 am 
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perfredlund wrote:
Oh well. Is it really hard to sign up with Yahoo??


I didn't even try. I didn't download the program for the same reasons as Jared.


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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Try here for the cubixplayer program (super-supercubing) :P

Per

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:53 pm 
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Thank you! I will be sure to try it when I get a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Fine, if nobody's interested in IsoSupercubeSim, I'll just take it off my website. I clearly made a mistake by putting it there in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:31 pm 
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qqwref wrote:
Fine, if nobody's interested in IsoSupercubeSim, I'll just take it off my website. I clearly made a mistake by putting it there in the first place.
:shock: In that case, I'm glad I downloaded it yesterday! I like it because it's clean and very easy to use: just point and drag to turn any face or slice. Is there a way to turn the super-ness on and off? I think I'd like to try a regular cuboid first, then when I feel confident, switch to a super version of the same cuboid. If not, I hope you put the page back up, so I can download the previous version for regular cuboids. Either way, this certainly beats having to simulate a 3x4x4 with a 4x4x4. 8-)

I don't know how often IsoCubeSim is downloaded from your site, but it has been mentioned around the web enough times by now that l suspect a steady trickle of twisty puzzlers will be disappointed for many months to come when they visit to download it and hit an error 404. So I hope you decide to put the page back up. (Think of how many people love Gelatinbrain, yet how rare it is for anyone to thank or praise the author in the discussion thread. Cool software is rather like welfare: its recipients tend to take it for granted, noticing only when it is taken away.)


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 Post subject: Re: IsoSupercubeSim
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:56 am 
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qqwref wrote:
Fine, if nobody's interested in IsoSupercubeSim, I'll just take it off my website. I clearly made a mistake by putting it there in the first place.


Immature decision. I hope that you have reverted your decision already. I agree that our programs are slightly competing. But your program runs on "all" plattforms whereas mine is bound to the pc platform - because yours is coded in java where mine is a windows standard .exe file. Featurewise they are also different. Your software supports much larger cubes and also irregularly sized cubes - my program supports only regular cubes up to 7x7x7. I had never imagined that there would be any interest in larger super cubes. Far less super-supercubes, simply due to the long solving time and "abnormal" solving strategies involved.
I am sorry if you got hurt by me calling your super centres ugly. Please bear in mind that i also called Pochmann's stickers ugly when they came out years ago :wink: There are some nice designs for super 3x3x3. But they don't generalise to larger cubes. Making a cube into a supercube should not, IMHO, clutter the stickers/faces visually. Well, unless speed does not really matter of course. The strongest feature(s) of your program is cross-platform and "any" size cube. Then your program wins hands down :mrgreen:

Per

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