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Which do you use?
Qwerty 92%  92%  [ 54 ]
Dvorak 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Other 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 59
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 Post subject: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:55 pm 
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I've started learning to type on a Dvorak keyboard layout, and I'm wondering what keyboard layouts everyone uses.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:56 pm 
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I'd like a keyboard where I can type with only my left hand, then I never have to take my right hand off of the mouse.

-d


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:03 pm 
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I never saw a dvorak keyboard. Can you post a pic of one?

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:06 pm 
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PotatoSpades22095 wrote:
I never saw a dvorak keyboard. Can you post a pic of one?


here you go...
Image


EDIT:sources:http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/layout.gif
i thought i have to add a source..


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Simple google search yields: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard

Qwerty, myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Helios-Cube wrote:
PotatoSpades22095 wrote:
I never saw a dvorak keyboard. Can you post a pic of one?


here you go...
Image


EDIT:sources:http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/layout.gif
i thought i have to add a source..


Thanks. WHoa, that looks crazy. I guess I'm too familiar with qwerty to ever wanna get used to that. But why is it called dvorak? I know qwerty is called that because those are the first 6 keys, but apparently, dvorak arent the first 6 letters.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:21 pm 
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PotatoSpades22095 wrote:
Helios-Cube wrote:
PotatoSpades22095 wrote:
I never saw a dvorak keyboard. Can you post a pic of one?


here you go...
Image


EDIT:sources:http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/layout.gif
i thought i have to add a source..


Thanks. WHoa, that looks crazy. I guess I'm too familiar with qwerty to ever wanna get used to that. But why is it called dvorak? I know qwerty is called that because those are the first 6 keys, but apparently, dvorak arent the first 6 letters.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Dvorak is named for its inventor if I am not mistaken. Anyways, I learned to type on a Qwerty, and will probably continue to use it as long as it remains the standard for physical keyboards.

If I was to take the time to learn a new keyboard, I would want to learn a one-handed keyboard(ambidextrous or left-handed design).

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:34 pm 
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I've returned to using an alphagrip (http://www.alphagrip.com) and it is 'mostly' qwerty though it can be mapped to dvorak.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:53 pm 
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I am just getting good at qwerty and I don't like change.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:08 pm 
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sausage wrote:
I've returned to using an alphagrip (http://www.alphagrip.com) and it is 'mostly' qwerty though it can be mapped to dvorak.


Wow, that is pretty cool.

I use qwerty btw


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:27 pm 
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:lol: I'm too old to change. um almost 30 years of qwerty and my muscles have definitly memorized those key strokes!

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:08 pm 
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Dvorak is superior in many ways. However since the vast majority of keyboards out there are qwerty, despite its drawbacks, I'll stick to using it if only to maintain compatibility with the rest of the English speaking world.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:23 am 
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I tried Dvorak in college. When you have to use any other computer (like, say, computers in a lab) you're pretty much SOL.
However, if you have control over most of the computers you'll use (and know how to quickly change those you can't leave) It's decent.

Also, Darryl:
I looked into the one handed keyboard. There's multiple ways to do it
There's some special keyboards for amputees. Expensive
There's the Frogpad. Less expensive
Then there's the flip methodology. There's some scripts out there that allow you to, at the press of a button (usually capslock, because seriously, IT'S USELESS (done with shift)), reverse the keys on the keyboard. q=p w=o e=i and so on. There's also some dictionary replacements (kinda like T9) where you type as if the keys are reversed when you need them to be, and the computer figures out what you were trying to type. I think there was a blag post on XKCD sometime. Shouldn't be hard to find.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:26 am 
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darryl wrote:
I'd like a keyboard where I can type with only my left hand, then I never have to take my right hand off of the mouse.

-d

If you follow the link already posted to wikipedia and scroll down, or simply click here, you will one handed keyboard layouts (one for each hand.)

It appears that Windows, at least Windows Vista, has these installed by default. You simply need to go into the appropriate options screen, check the appropriate box, and press the apply button. Once you do that an icon will appear on your taskbar that allows you to switch between keyboard layouts at any time. Of course having a left handed keyboard is one thing, learning to use it is another entirely.

Given that my primary computer is a laptop, and changing laptop keys is even more tedious than changing an ordinary keyboard's keys, I'm unlikely to start using a nonstandard keyboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:52 am 
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My dad said that qwerty is developed to type slower. He saw it at discovery channel I think...

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:29 am 
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qwerty was developed for typewriters to keep the arms from hitting each other. By spacing out the letters in the manner that they were, human hands couldn't type THAT quickly, so the typewriter wouldn't malfunction. The layout just carried over to keyboards as computers were developed.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:33 am 
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I actually tried switching to Colemak, and I really loved it, but my computer is so glitchy that often it would switch without meaning to. Because of that, I had to stop for the sake of my mom typing and then looking up to find a string of incoherent letters. :[
Its actually the most efficient when compared to Qwerty or Dvorak.
See here: http://colemak.com/Compare
Take your most recent paper and compare it to the other layouts, you will often find that it is the most efficient option.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:48 am 
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Sven wrote:
My dad said that qwerty is developed to type slower. He saw it at discovery channel I think...

That is somewhat accurate.

When the typewriter was first produced the keys jammed quite a bit, so the inventor shuffled the keys, and kept on shuffling the keys until the thing jammed less. This was done by trial and error. Part of the reason they jammed less was that shuffling the keys slowed typing down.


The last key shuffled actually had nothing to do with jamming. R was moved to its current position so that salesmen could type typewriter quickly as a demonstration.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:51 pm 
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Politely Owned wrote:
I actually tried switching to Colemak, and I really loved it, but my computer is so glitchy that often it would switch without meaning to. Because of that, I had to stop for the sake of my mom typing and then looking up to find a string of incoherent letters. :[
Its actually the most efficient when compared to Qwerty or Dvorak.
See here: http://colemak.com/Compare
Take your most recent paper and compare it to the other layouts, you will often find that it is the most efficient option.


You know I have never been a fast tiper (sp?) I think I may switch. Is it safe to switch keys on a acer laptop?

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:15 pm 
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Shua wrote:
Is it safe to switch keys on a acer laptop?

If your acer is like my acer then it is safe to switch keys. It is simply tedious. Very, very tedious.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:18 pm 
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chris the cynic wrote:
Shua wrote:
Is it safe to switch keys on a acer laptop?

If your acer is like my acer then it is safe to switch keys. It is simply tedious. Very, very tedious.


Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:24 pm 
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I can already type pretty fast on qwerty... But I would love to switch to one of these. I really like the colemak one. There are so many things that have qwerty that It doesn't really make sense to though. =/


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:38 pm 
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That depends very much on what you will be using.

The fact that some cell phones and mobile devices (or whatever they call that now) use qwerty is inconsequential. The different size of such keyboards means that you aren't using the same motions, so being used to a non qwerty keyboard won't disadvantage you when using such devices anymore than than being used to a qwerty keyboard.

If the computers you'll be using have the option to switch keyboard configurations (Windows appears to have it built in) then you need not use qwerty on them even if they have qwerty keyboards (after all, once you are used to a keyboard you don't need to look at it. So say the five fingers I use to type.)


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:37 pm 
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chris the cynic wrote:
That depends very much on what you will be using.

The fact that some cell phones and mobile devices (or whatever they call that now) use qwerty is inconsequential. The different size of such keyboards means that you aren't using the same motions, so being used to a non qwerty keyboard won't disadvantage you when using such devices anymore than than being used to a qwerty keyboard.


That bit about phones isn't actually true. I know for a fact that although the whole motion is different, the mental layout is still consistent. All you have to do is re-calibrate the movement to fit the keyboard size. Whereas with a new layout, you have to train your brain to think of the letters in different places. It is different than switching to a different board size. A LOT harder.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:07 pm 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
Dvorak is superior in many ways. However since the vast majority of keyboards out there are qwerty, despite its drawbacks, I'll stick to using it if only to maintain compatibility with the rest of the English speaking world.

How exactly is Dvorak superior?

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:08 pm 
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PotatoSpades22095 wrote:
Jin H Kim wrote:
Dvorak is superior in many ways. However since the vast majority of keyboards out there are qwerty, despite its drawbacks, I'll stick to using it if only to maintain compatibility with the rest of the English speaking world.

How exactly is Dvorak superior?


It is designed with speed in mind. Qwerty was designed to slow typists down, in short. A longer explanation:

chris the cynic wrote:
Sven wrote:
My dad said that qwerty is developed to type slower. He saw it at discovery channel I think...

That is somewhat accurate.

When the typewriter was first produced the keys jammed quite a bit, so the inventor shuffled the keys, and kept on shuffling the keys until the thing jammed less. This was done by trial and error. Part of the reason they jammed less was that shuffling the keys slowed typing down.


The last key shuffled actually had nothing to do with jamming. R was moved to its current position so that salesmen could type typewriter quickly as a demonstration.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:08 am 
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Ok I switched to Dvorak. It is taking me forever to type this. I do like where the e and the . are placed. I have been typing for about three minuets now. I think I will give it a week. Hey I think I am getting it. I also think I should note that I am typing on the home row alot more. Thanks for the pointers guys!

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:19 am 
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If all keyboards magically turned into Dvorak, I would say Dvorak, but that's unfortunately not the case.

My desktop keyboard has a command "ctrl+shift" that changes the keyboard from Qwerty to Dvorak mode. For some reason there is no warning about this switch and it's really easy to accidentally ress ctrl and shift at the same time, haha.

It took a few months of accidentally switching to Dvorak to discover what exactly was going on, and I've been wanting to try it for ages. The problem is, as Kat said, I have memorized the hand movements for pretty much every word I'll ever need to type on a Qwerty, so why even bother switching?


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:05 pm 
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Notoday wrote:
If all keyboards magically turned into Dvorak, I would say Dvorak, but that's unfortunately not the case.

My desktop keyboard has a command "ctrl+shift" that changes the keyboard from Qwerty to Dvorak mode. For some reason there is no warning about this switch and it's really easy to accidentally ress ctrl and shift at the same time, haha.

It took a few months of accidentally switching to Dvorak to discover what exactly was going on, and I've been wanting to try it for ages. The problem is, as Kat said, I have memorized the hand movements for pretty much every word I'll ever need to type on a Qwerty, so why even bother switching?



I was never a quick speller so I thought I would give this a shot. I'm just a little slower now then I used to be & I can't talk and talk and type at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Politely Owned wrote:
chris the cynic wrote:
The fact that some cell phones and mobile devices (or whatever they call that now) use qwerty is inconsequential. The different size of such keyboards means that you aren't using the same motions, so being used to a non qwerty keyboard won't disadvantage you when using such devices anymore than than being used to a qwerty keyboard.

That bit about phones isn't actually true. I know for a fact that although the whole motion is different, the mental layout is still consistent. All you have to do is re-calibrate the movement to fit the keyboard size. Whereas with a new layout, you have to train your brain to think of the letters in different places. It is different than switching to a different board size. A LOT harder.

I have to disagree with this. The important thing about using a keyboard isn't that you are aware of where the keys are. In fact, if you need to use your awareness of the positions of the keys you aren't using it properly. If you're doing it right your fingers should find the keys seemingly on their own, being consciously aware of the layout should, at best, accomplish nothing or, more likely, slow you down. (Are you seriously telling me that when you typed that you were thinking about where the T was, then where the H was, then the A, then back to the T then the Space Bar, and so on? Are you telling me that you need a mental layout of the keys in your head to type?)

I can adapt my typing to a somewhat smaller or somewhat larger keyboard no problem, so to a certain extent size does not matter, but the fact is that if I can't use all of my fingers any experience I've had typing on qwerty isn't going to help me.

You're talking about learning the positions of the keys (mental layout), but that doesn't really matter. There is a learning process, which is why the keys are labeled, but once that process is finished you shouldn't need to know the layout because the learning process doesn't involve learning the layout, it involves learning the motions. (Learning the layout is an expected byproduct but not technically necessary, one could become a proficient typer by simply looking at the keyboard to type until the motions became automatic.) Typing is done by muscle memory not mental layout.

If you are honestly training you brain to think about letters in certain places, then I agree that knowing a qwerty full sized keyboard would help you with a qwerty phone. But if you are doing that you are willingly hobbling yourself. You shouldn't have to have a mental layout to type because it should become automatic after a little practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Shua wrote:
Notoday wrote:
The problem is, as Kat said, I have memorized the hand movements for pretty much every word I'll ever need to type on a Qwerty, so why even bother switching?

I was never a quick speller so I thought I would give this a shot. I'm just a little slower now then I used to be & I can't talk and talk and type at the same time.

Expect switching to take some time to get used to.

In response to Notoday, it's sort of like handedness. If you've been using your wrong hand your whole life then that means you can get by with your wrong hand, you've memorized all of the motions for your wrong hand, and so on. But if you were to take the time and effort necessary to switch you'd be able to do everything better and, most likely, more comfortably.

If you would bother to retrain your correct hand after using your wrong hand as primary, you're probably also the kind of person who would switch to a new keyboard that should be better once learned. If you're not, you're not.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:09 pm 
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As I'm french I would say I would prefer to use a Bépo keyboard which fits more the french language and is equivalent to dvorak.

The difference is that the layout includes those following things é è ê and so on.

http://www.clavier-dvorak.org/wiki/images/thumb/Fr-dvorak-bepo-1.0rc2-simplifiee.png/700px-Fr-dvorak-bepo-1.0rc2-simplifiee.png

Unfortunately I didn't try this for now but am sure it would be easier to use.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:34 pm 
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C ydcbt C am ircbi yr ypf Ekrpat

Translation: I think I am going to try Dvorak :) Time to go rip some keys off an old keyboard. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Caphits wrote:
C ydcbt C am ircbi yr ypf Ekrpat

Translation: I think I am going to try Dvorak :) Time to go rip some keys off an old keyboard. :lol:


I switched back. I couldn't handle it anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:03 am 
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Ok, so what i am gonna try to do, is do what I do with qwerty. Type without looking at the keys. It is EXTREMELY simple to switch back and forth: all you have to do is press shift+ctrl once it is setup, which takes all of 11 seconds. So far, I have the homerow down pretty good, but that is all. I feel that is is pretty easy to relearn some finger commands. Others, not so much. :lol:

Edit: Shua, dont give up too soon! I have NEVER heard anything bad about dvorak. Just think about how long it took you to become remotely good at qwerty. I have heard that the learning curve is about 1/2 that of qwerty. Im not saying it will be easy... But I dont think it will be too hard. I recommend trying out some sort of free online course. I have been using: http://learn.dvorak.nl/?lang=en&lesson=1 I was also using one that doesnt use words in the beginning, but I didnt like it as much: http://www.sense-lang.org/typing/tutor/Dvorak.html Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Caphits wrote:
Ok, so what i am gonna try to do, is do what I do with qwerty. Type without looking at the keys. It is EXTREMELY simple to switch back and forth: all you have to do is press shift+ctrl once it is setup, which takes all of 11 seconds. So far, I have the homerow down pretty good, but that is all. I feel that is is pretty easy to relearn some finger commands. Others, not so much. :lol:

Edit: Shua, dont give up too soon! I have NEVER heard anything bad about dvorak. Just think about how long it took you to become remotely good at qwerty. I have heard that the learning curve is about 1/2 that of qwerty. Im not saying it will be easy... But I dont think it will be too hard. I recommend trying out some sort of free online course. I have been using: http://learn.dvorak.nl/?lang=en&lesson=1 I was also using one that doesnt use words in the beginning, but I didnt like it as much: http://www.sense-lang.org/typing/tutor/Dvorak.html Good luck!


I might have to try that other one that is closer to qwerty. I just can't stand thinking four times faster than I can type.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:00 pm 
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I use both Dvorak and Qwerty (cant really escape it when you work with computers). Hopefully Dvorak will become more popular with the next generation.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:17 pm 
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I think that it is going to be harder switching (like as an entire nation) to dvorak, or any other keyboard set, than americans switching to the much better metric system. It is almost like learning a whole new language. At least that is my opinion.

I can almost touch-type off of a qwerty board, but I still have a little bit of trouble. I cannot imagine having dvorak the "standard" for keyboards. People are just too set in their ways, and once you know qwerty, you dont really have a need to learn something that will make you a little faster, and be more comfortable. You already know how to type.

I have heard of typists who type LOTS, and have switched. They say that they dont get any of the pains with dvorak that they used to get with qwerty, because you don't have to move your fingers as much.

Edit: Alas!!! I can now basically touch type Dvorak!! Time to start using it exclusively. <----Typed using Dvorak on a qwerty keyboard. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:08 pm 
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Caphits wrote:
I think that it is going to be harder switching (like as an entire nation) to dvorak, or any other keyboard set, than americans switching to the much better metric system. It is almost like learning a whole new language. At least that is my opinion.
I agree, which is why i said "the next generation". My kids will grow up using dvorak, eventually qwerty will be the weird one :)


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:48 pm 
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I saw many people here posting about wanting a one hand keyboard. Dvorak had one hand variations!! I saw on one page, that a war vet, who had his hand blown off could type around 50 WPM (with one hand! :shock: ) Faster than many people using 2 hands on qwerty. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:17 am 
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C ydcbt C mcidy ick. ydco a odry ,d.b C dak. ycm. yr jdabi. mf t.fo aprgbevvv

Translated:
I think I might give this a shot once I have time to change my keys around...


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:17 am 
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I've used Qwerty for all of my life, I've never seen a Dvorak keyboard until I read this thread :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:57 pm 
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Haha, now no one can use my laptop unless they are familiar with the Dvorak layout or want to search for each letter(or can switch it back to qwerty and type without paying attention to where the keys really are)... of course that includes me too until I get used too it.

I can already tell that this is a more efficient way too type.


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:24 pm 
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I found this sweet cartoon.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:34 pm 
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tbh, i use a semi colon more often than the minus dvorak decided to put on the home row


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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:57 pm 
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no. - is not on homerow. - replaces " not ;

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:27 pm 
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i just switched, now some of my keys are sideways and of different heights

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:38 pm 
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caphits: programmers use ; so much that it's really convenient to have. I'm sure any computer scientist/closet coder would back me up here.

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 Post subject: Re: Qwerty vs Dvorak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:42 pm 
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They make dvorak for coders too. :)

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