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Are puzzles getting too expensive?
Poll ended at Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:11 pm
YES! 44%  44%  [ 21 ]
No 17%  17%  [ 8 ]
I am managing... Sorta. 40%  40%  [ 19 ]
I don't know 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 48
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 Post subject: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:11 pm 
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Can I be frank here?

Am I the only one who can't afford 75% - 80% of puzzles that are being made today?

I mean, Drewseph's Teraminx and Gigaminx (Thousands), Tony Fisher's puzzles (Originals and remakes, Ranging from Hundreds to thousands), various Halpern-Meier Pyramids (Who Knows?)... The list goes on and on! Even a V-Cube 7 is more than $60 with shipping!

Granted, an imense amount of work goes into the designing, production, etc. of these puzzles. I just don't understand how others, ESPECIALLY with the economy the way it is, can afford the be buying a Teraminx on Monday, and still have enough cash to drive their car back and forth to work.

Granted (again), not everyone's buying a Teraminx, however, instead of a Teraminx, said person may splurge on a V-Cube or 2, a Pro-Minx, etc.

Enough of my rambling... Tell me what you think.

Thanks

Post Script:

I realize that this is a very subjective topic, so, please answer on how it relates to your life.
Thanks

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Last edited by HBMAN on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:33 pm 
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I would say yes although I voted on the sorta option. I haven't got enough money to even buy any of the v-cubes yet. And 2 new puzzles are to be released around Christmas. Sigh...if I am a millionaire, that would be great. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:41 pm 
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It all depends upon one's financial position to begin with. No car payments, no mortgage, no rent. Only utilities, food, and basic daily expendatures makes it easy to justify purchasing puzzles. It's also called budgeting. I know what my disposable income is each month, and I either spend it on my daughter or myself. She can do without a toy so I can have one.

I don't have a car. It was a decision made 15 years ago, not because gas was over US$4 a gallon even before this economic crisis, but because parking fees are insane. Transport is very inexpensive because my husband works for a subsidiary of our train company so no train fees.

But even so, I have hesitated many times before purchasing a puzzle, not because of the current cost or economy, but because I just don't think I can justify that kind of money. While the tetraminx is an amazing puzzle that I would love to own, it is also 1/2 of a tuition payment. At this point, the money is better spent elsewhere. Now if I already had the funny hat, it might be a different story.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:47 pm 
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I originally wrote a longwinded post for this thread, thank god my buzzed Halloween ramblings didn't stick.

Anyways, if we're talking hand made original puzzles like the teraminx or a Fisher puzzle, they're worth every penny and not every one need to own one. If we're talking a mass produced puzzle, of course they need to be easily attainable. I think the current puzzle situation is where it should be, I can't afford all those great hand made puzzles, but I have two hands and will make it myself if solving it becomes driving desire.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:52 pm 
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I don't even know where to begin when it comes to building. I've looked through the thread, and can't find a simple how to start molding thread for dummies. So that isn't an option. If the desire becomes so strong that I can't control myself even after a cold shower, Then I'll just have to work a few more weekends to get it, or cut back on Starbucks and Krispy Kream.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:01 am 
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katsmom wrote:
I don't even know where to begin when it comes to building. I've looked through the thread, and can't find a simple how to start molding thread for dummies. So that isn't an option. If the desire becomes so strong that I can't control myself even after a cold shower, Then I'll just have to work a few more weekends to get it, or cut back on Starbucks and Krispy Kream.


Nice responses!

Also, off topic, but, How are you enjoying your Mirror Blocks from Hidetoshi San?
Mine are coming tomorrow or the next day. Can't wait!

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:00 am 
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katsmom wrote:
I don't even know where to begin when it comes to building. I've looked through the thread, and can't find a simple how to start molding thread for dummies. So that isn't an option. If the desire becomes so strong that I can't control myself even after a cold shower, Then I'll just have to work a few more weekends to get it, or cut back on Starbucks and Krispy Kream.


So sad, there isn't anymore krispy kreme in Hong Kong, only the airport ones. Fairwell caramel filling donuts!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:08 am 
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So then it's a forced cutback, but the airport isn't that far away by train. And they do have Popeye's!

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:12 am 
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Come on guys, let's stay on topic here until..... Mmmm... Yummy Donuts. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:26 am 
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HBMAN wrote:
Nice responses!

Also, off topic, but, How are you enjoying your Mirror Blocks from Hidetoshi San?
Mine are coming tomorrow or the next day. Can't wait!


They are lovely. The signed one is on my shelf, and the other is really mucked up on my desk. My coworkers walk past and enjoy the wierd shapes they can make. I'm sure it will be a right mess when I go back to work in two weeks. (Along with all the other cubes on my desk) The void cube has been a great conversation starter this week as well. (thank goodness it finally got here!)

HBMAN wrote:
Come on guys, let's stay on topic here until..... Mmmm... Yummy Donuts. :wink:


But this is on topic and it just helps prove my point. If we really want the puzzles, there are things we can do without. Krispy Kreme filed for bankruptcy this past week so it was a forced cutback. I can still ride the train to the airport (without cost) but it's a bother unless I'm desperate for donuts. Which might just happen. I've been desperate for Popeye's before. :wink:

Relatively speaking, things ARE cheaper here in HK. (I"m sure the other two young men on the board might argue with me, but I'm also pretty sure they haven't lived in as many countries as I have to make the comparison with). If puzzles are high on your list of priorities, there are things we can do without, and others that we can substitute. For example, IF I were willing to risk my families lives I could start buying local meat in the markets and save around 50% on the price I pay now for imported meat. Or instead of buying Coca-cola I could buy the local generic kind and save about .50 a can.

I've had the benefit of taking advantage of the exchange rate differences this week and ordered quite a few puzzles I've been wanting just because of the economic changes. They were cheaper this week than they were last month.
It's like anything really, you buy what you can afford. The rest you do without.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:34 am 
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VERY well stated katsmom.

Simple, If you want something, and are willing to cut back somewhere else, then it is easy to obtain... Perhaps :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:12 am 
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HBMAN wrote:
Am I the only one who can't afford 75% - 80% of puzzles that are being made today?

I mean, Drewseph's Teraminx and Gigaminx (Thousands)


If Drewseph suddenly started to give away Teraminxes you still almost certainly wouldn't get one. The waiting list would be enormous and unless you were in the top 30 or so he probably wouldn't even get to yours.

katsmom wrote:
I don't even know where to begin when it comes to building. I've looked through the thread, and can't find a simple how to start molding thread for dummies. So that isn't an option.


No offence katsmom but this is a terrible excuse. All you need to make any puzzle is a strong enough desire. After the first 4x4x4 came out in the early eighties I was looking forward to the 3x3x4. Weeks and months went by. I was infuriated that no one was releasing it. Eventually I realised the only way I would own one would be to make it myself. Whatever that took I had to have one. There were no guides and I didn't even know of one other person in the world who was making puzzles by hand. If your desire is strong enough you'll find a way.
Also, what about all the things in the world that had to be made for the first time? There weren't instruction for any of those.

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Last edited by Tony Fisher on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:27 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Eventually I realised the all way I would own one would be to make it myself. Whatever that took I had to have one.


Precisely! And sometimes making something by ourselves is not just the only way,
but it is the *best* way too. The experience which is gained and the expertise
can be very rewarding for the future. Plus, we get it done the way *we* want it,
the way *we* envisioned it, instead of waiting from someone else who might not
even grasp our design idea.

Regarding the topic, my opinion is that you need to realise what you need most.
Do you want the puzzle so bad that you don't mind starving for a week?
The decision is always on the person. And no one can get all puzzles,
not just because it requires a lot of money, but because it also requires super-human
searching skills. And if someone can design his own unique puzzles, he/she is always one
step ahead from the rest, isn't he/she?

;)


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:12 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
katsmom wrote:
I don't even know where to begin when it comes to building. I've looked through the thread, and can't find a simple how to start molding thread for dummies. So that isn't an option.


No offence katsmom but this is a terrible excuse. All you need to make any puzzle is a strong enough desire. After the first 4x4x4 came out in the early eighties I was looking forward to the 3x3x4. Weeks and months went by. I was infuriated that no one was releasing it. Eventually I realised the all way I would own one would be to make it myself. Whatever that took I had to have one. There were no guides and I didn't even know of one other person in the world who was making puzzles by hand. If your desire is strong enough you'll find a way.
Also, what about all the things in the world that had to be made for the first time? There weren't instruction for any of those.


It might be a terrible excuse to you, but it's a reality for me. I don't have the patience, or skill, or mechanical type mind to build a puzzle. (And no offence was taken. I know my limitations, so I buy the ones I want.) Not all puzzles that I see appeal to me. For example, I think I've worked out how a truncated cube can be made, but it doesn't do enough for me to attempt it.

I have a thing for characters and heads. When I saw someone elses wall.e cube, http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10720&hilit=wall+e I decided to attempt my own. Not a creative build at all, but something that was possible for me.

Not everyone was made to be a builder of great puzzles like you Tony, some of us were just ment to collect great puzzles! (And I hope that doesn't offend you.)

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:27 am 
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I would say that the custom puzzles don't amount to 70-80% of puzzles. Those are really the top 1%. If you want to collect, then you have to collect what you can afford. For example, here's my current collection:

http://www.logan.cc/puzzles/

Now, most of those puzzles aren't in the thousands. Only a few of them are in the hundreds. But through trading, you can "work up" to better puzzles. Buying cheaper puzzles can also be an investment. For example, if years ago you bought a few extra Dino Cubes, then yeah, you'd be able to get a Tony Fisher.

For the common mass-produced puzzles, I think they're all very much in the range of everyone. Yeah, you may have to work or save a bit, and you can't buy everything at once, but really, you're 13. If you wanted to buy a bunch of DVD's, or buy a nice set of golf clubs, or a nice bicycle, all of those would take time to save up for. Puzzles are really no different.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:37 am 
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Just woke up and I'd love to Chime in:

About My Teraminx being $2000USD The auction was not long ago, and the determined price from that auction was $2275USD.
In order to be completely fair, I should be selling them at that price just to be honest to the winner. lowering it 200$ is already a big discount.
Over time it might get lower, but I think no lower than $1500, these things are not easy to make. I have to put in so many hours of work casting and then cleaning every part that in the end I'll work enough hours to have made as much money at a simple job than by making 1 puzzle.

I don't think its fair to argue that these hand built puzzles are too high in price.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:39 am 
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Drewseph wrote:
Just woke up and I'd love to Chime in:

About My Teraminx being $2000USD The auction was not long ago, and the determined price from that auction was $2275USD.
In order to be completely fair, I should be selling them at that price just to be honest to the winner. lowering it 200$ is already a big discount.
Over time it might get lower, but I think no lower than $1500, these things are not easy to make. I have to put in so many hours of work casting and then cleaning every part that in the end I'll work enough hours to have made as much money at a simple job than by making 1 puzzle.

I don't think its fair to argue that these hand built puzzles are too high in price.


Treu! you should not lower the price, if someone wants is then they have to pay the full price!

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:42 am 
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Being a college student, I must say that there is NEVER a time that I'm not strapped for cash. I attend school 4 days a week, so that leaves one day where I can work with my dad (He owns a plumbing business), and even when I do manage to find an internship to do on nights and weekends, it's usually unpaid! Being as I have no time to make money, I have to use what time I do have to build puzzles of my own. I very much agree with Tony Fisher here. If you can't buy it, build it! My build list keeps on growing and growing because I cannot afford to buy puzzles! I don't mind it, since I really enjoy producing puzzles of my own, but there are times when I drool over the mefferts website or over some beautiful gem on ebay and I just wish I had some extra cash. I've even had a dream about the V-cubes a few weeks ago, where I happened to bump into someone who was selling their V7 for really cheap. When I woke up I wanted one more than ever, but couldn't afford it! I don't have anything against the prices of puzzles--I'm not going to say they're too expensive, my problem is just that I have no source of income and cannot buy then!

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:20 pm 
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Bryan wrote:
I would say that the custom puzzles don't amount to 70-80% of puzzles. Those are really the top 1%. If you want to collect, then you have to collect what you can afford. For example, here's my current collection:

http://www.logan.cc/puzzles/

Now, most of those puzzles aren't in the thousands. Only a few of them are in the hundreds. But through trading, you can "work up" to better puzzles. Buying cheaper puzzles can also be an investment. For example, if years ago you bought a few extra Dino Cubes, then yeah, you'd be able to get a Tony Fisher.

For the common mass-produced puzzles, I think they're all very much in the range of everyone. Yeah, you may have to work or save a bit, and you can't buy everything at once, but really, you're 13. If you wanted to buy a bunch of DVD's, or buy a nice set of golf clubs, or a nice bicycle, all of those would take time to save up for. Puzzles are really no different.


I agree completely! But its hard when the puzzle market fluctuates. For example, I wanted to buy the Dogic XI, however I haden't saved enough money. So I saved and saved [and saved], and finally got the money. However, when I went to buy one, they were sold out. I mean, I saved up a little more and got a couple of V-Cubes, however, I still haven't been able to buy a Dogic... :?


Quote:
About My Teraminx being $2000USD The auction was not long ago, and the determined price from that auction was $2275USD.
In order to be completely fair, I should be selling them at that price just to be honest to the winner. lowering it 200$ is already a big discount.
Over time it might get lower, but I think no lower than $1500, these things are not easy to make. I have to put in so many hours of work casting and then cleaning every part that in the end I'll work enough hours to have made as much money at a simple job than by making 1 puzzle.

I don't think its fair to argue that these hand built puzzles are too high in price.


Drewseph,

I would NEVER undermine your efforts. The Teraminx is arguabely the biggest advancement in Puzzles (that and the V-Cubes). Selling them for $2000 is completely reasonable for the amount of labor that goes into them. I just used your Teraminx as an example, because it is very expensive, and I, and many others, can't afford it.

Please don't take offense because I used your puzzle as an example. It was a kind of complement. I really wish I could afford one, but I can't justify spending $2000 on a puzzle. However, some people can. That is why the Multi-Millionaire on my street is driving a 1998 Lincoln Towncar... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:44 pm 
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A year ago, I couldn't comprehend paying $100 or more for a single puzzle (a toy, really). Now that I have been building them for awhile, and I can completely appreciate the amount of work that goes into making one of these things. That doesn't make it any easier on my wallet, but it helps understand why they're so much.

It's surprising how many people think that molding pieces is so simple. Just buy the silicon, buy the resin and cast them, right? Yea, good one. I get PMs quite often asking about masters and how do you build this or that. I don't normally sell masters, but one guy was really persistent about buying some of my masters, so I gave him a price, and he was shocked. I'm not talking a TON of money, but everything is relative. If you buy masters from me for a puzzle that has six pieces, for $5 a piece (which is extremely cheap and not all of them are that cheap, but what he was asking for fell into that range), and then you turn them around and sell a bunch for $50 each, is that expensive?

One way to be able to afford some of these great puzzles is by trading. I have had a number of trades that resulted in some great pieces, or masters. Of course you have to have something to trade... That's where the building comes in.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:22 pm 
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flambore wrote:
One way to be able to afford some of these great puzzles is by trading. I have had a number of trades that resulted in some great pieces, or masters. Of course you have to have something to trade... That's where the building comes in.

I have to heartily second this point.

I have resources, but I also have a family. If I were single I'm sure my puzzle collection would be much larger. But one has to prioritize where money is spent, so puzzles have their place. So how am I to get some really nice puzzles?

Building and trading is a great way. I have built almost 90 puzzles and while most have been for sale, many of them have been for trade. In addition to increasing the number of hand built puzzles in the market, it forges great relationships and brings the entire puzzle community closer.

Also take note that people can be much more generous in a trade than they would be for just cash. If I know someone is putting their efforts into a puzzle by hand, I'll want to trade them something I really take the time to make nice. Even if I might sell it for more, there is an appreciation for the work on both sides.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:03 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
Not everyone was made to be a builder


I think it's the way you approach things. You might be a bad cook for all I know but I assume you do cook meals for your daughter. The process of moulding is no different to that. After Drewseph had his Teraminx master pieces made and cleaned up he only did what any chef does. He carefully mixed ingredients and used them in his Teraminx recipe. I know there's other things involved but look towards your own skills and make the most of them. Pick a puzzle to make that fits around your abilities. If you can solve puzzles that already proves you have the mental ability and dexterity. Many people I know can't rotate most puzzles. Give them a Skewb and they haven't got a clue how to move it.
Get yourself a Dremel and go attack a puzzle! Your first attempt will probably be rubbish but the second will be better...

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:52 pm 
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I just happen to be in a temporarily lucky spot. As a college student with most expenses paid for, I am also allowed to use my parents' money on puzzles. They know it's a hobby of mine that I am very adamant about - much like my purchases of musical equipment and CDs. As long as I stay within reason they really don't mind. "Within reason" hasn't actually been defined but I try to spend no more than $75 every 4 months on puzzles. This year I'd say it totals to $200 or so. They trust me to spend their money appropriatly so I try to honor that. This means that many non-mass-produced mods are out of the question though I would really like to own some of them.

Of course, this won't last forever. My mother has noted that she wants me to be financially independent when I reach graduate school or a little further. This is totally far. So for the time being I enjoy what I have.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:13 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
katsmom wrote:
Not everyone was made to be a builder


I think it's the way you approach things. You might be a bad cook for all I know but I assume you do cook meals for your daughter. The process of moulding is no different to that. After Drewseph had his Teraminx master pieces made and cleaned up he only did what any chef does. He carefully mixed ingredients and used them in his Teraminx recipe. I know there's other things involved but look towards your own skills and make the most of them. Pick a puzzle to make that fits around your abilities. If you can solve puzzles that already proves you have the mental ability and dexterity. Many people I know can't rotate most puzzles. Give them a Skewb and they haven't got a clue how to move it.
Get yourself a Dremel and go attack a puzzle! Your first attempt will probably be rubbish but the second will be better...




Tony - you are so gifted you don't even realize it! :shock: 8-) lol

It's easier said than done. I wish it was that easy - then I'd really have a huge collection... :P ;)

And trust me, you can't apply that logic to everything. You don't know how many people I've seen come and go in my department. And you'd really think playing a video game isn't hard work? It is!!!! But most can't just do it.


As for the topic - yeah, current times have been harsh. In the first few years I have been collecting, I collected around 300 puzzles (mostly all custom work too). The past 1-1 1/2 years I've bought less than 50. And there's been a ton more puzzles this past year. So many I have passed up on, while I may afford them, like Katsmom, you just have to set your priorities. Do I eat/make payments or buy a toy/puzzle?

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:24 pm 
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Well, looks like pretty much everything has already been said, so that saves me some typing :)

However, I just want to raise the point that I find it rather interesting that this poll / thread was started at a time when the price of rare / custom made puzzles right across the board seems to be going down!

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:19 pm 
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the.drizzle wrote:
However, I just want to raise the point that I find it rather interesting that this poll / thread was started at a time when the price of rare / custom made puzzles right across the board seems to be going down!


I don't agree. :|

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:54 pm 
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There are some puzzles that are just out of reach for some people. That's part of life. Not everyone was meant to drive a Lamborghini. Not everyone was meant to have a Termaminx or a 24-puzzle, or one of many of the really amazing puzzles out there. There are things that are meant to be collectors items.

It blows me away how complex some of the newer puzzles have become. CAD has enabled those who know how to use it to design some amazing things. I doubt the gigaminx, v-cube, 24-puzzle, etc., could have possibly been designed by hand. But with the complexity comes the difficulty to mold, sand, finish, sticker, etc. I take my hat of to those puzzlebuilders, but I also have a very deep respect for those who make their puzzles by hand, like Hidetoshi, John, Jin, Tony- just to name a few.

While I can't afford most of these puzzles, I have to respect their asking price. I'll just have to admire them from afar.


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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:20 pm 
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HBMAN wrote:
the.drizzle wrote:
However, I just want to raise the point that I find it rather interesting that this poll / thread was started at a time when the price of rare / custom made puzzles right across the board seems to be going down!


I don't agree. :|


well lets see, pyraminx crystal dropped approxamately $900, the v-cubes about the same, gigaminx originally sold for over $1500 now it can be bought easily* for $1000, and soon the golden cube...

there are some more that i didn't name, i was just proving a point

* = bought from a reliable source, so not just hoping for an auction soon

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:11 pm 
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TheCube wrote:
HBMAN wrote:
the.drizzle wrote:
However, I just want to raise the point that I find it rather interesting that this poll / thread was started at a time when the price of rare / custom made puzzles right across the board seems to be going down!


I don't agree. :|


well lets see, pyraminx crystal dropped approxamately $900, the v-cubes about the same, gigaminx originally sold for over $1500 now it can be bought easily* for $1000, and soon the golden cube...

there are some more that i didn't name, i was just proving a point

* = bought from a reliable source, so not just hoping for an auction soon


Yes I think prices are coming down. There's a general feeling that if you hang on a bit you'll probably get the puzzle you want a bit cheaper. Certainly my puzzles are selling for less.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Yes I think prices are coming down. There's a general feeling that if you hang on a bit you'll probably get the puzzle you want a bit cheaper. Certainly my puzzles are selling for less.


Which is exactly what I was alluding to, as well as few other recent ebay sales that seemed quite low, as opposed to the other items which have recently become readily available.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:59 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
katsmom wrote:
Not everyone was made to be a builder


I think it's the way you approach things. You might be a bad cook for all I know but I assume you do cook meals for your daughter.

Tony, you overestimate my abilities :lol: :lol: If it weren't for our Miss N. We would all starve. More seriously though, I understand your point. Mine is that I might break a fingernail, or more likely cut off a finger. If I ever get the desire to attempt a more serious build than my wall.e that was done using a premade toy and a yellow cube I'll come hunting advice :wink: Until then, I'll just purchase what I like. If building were as easy for everyone as it seems to be for you, what place would people like you, Dreseph, the.drizzle, and many others have in the puzzle building/inventing world?

Tony Fisher wrote:
Get yourself a Dremel and go attack a puzzle! Your first attempt will probably be rubbish but the second will be better...


Believe it or not, we have two of these under the computer table. Reading the threads that I've seen, I probably could start building puzzles, again, there just isn't the desire to do so. Not only that, there isn't the time. Many others have posted on the amount of time involved in designing, molding, putting together, and I simply don't have it. Again, that might sound like an excuse, and if it is, it works for me.

Drewsephs Tetraminx, the.drizzles puzzles Rua, Tony Fisher puzzles, DLitwin's... They are all amazing. Not all appeal to me though. The one's that do, I'll attempt to purchase. (I've probably made a few enemies with that sentence but nothing negative was intended)

I agree that custom puzzles should be sold for more. I can only imagine the time and money spent to design them and have them become a reality. I applaud those of you who do this. Me, I'm better at researching, and by extension, hunting for puzzles. But like Pantazis said, I'm not super-human so the hunt goes on.

Just as an added bit, I have been told that there are free STL files that I can pick up to design puzzles, or that I can purchase them at a relatively low cost (a post in the marketplace) on a trip across the border with my husband, we ended up in a metal casting factory. They told me they could build some of those for around $25-$30 US. Fair enough, I could get cheap puzzles, but I hesitate to do this for one main reason. It's China. Duplication of others ideas do not seem to be an issue there, and I wouldn't want to accidentaly have someone elses hard work show up on the web for low prices. (Now this I know seems off topic but bear with me) There is always a way to get what we want (puzzles wise) it's just a matter of how badly we want it, and to what extreems we will go. This same factory did some amazing fabrications of parts my husband needed for his Unimat thing. I had a crystal pyraminx in my bag at the time, Husband showed it to the guy, we popped a piece and he was sure he could make it. I broke a spindal on a tiled skewb diamond, brought the pieces to him and now I have a spindal made of some kind of metal. Some things (other people's hard work) are not worth the degridation of my own standards.

I seem to have gotten a bit off track, but it all goes back to my initial point, we do what we can to get what we want. Other things we just do without. (Taking a chance on someone elses work being mass produced because of a desire for something.)

As my final word, it surprised me to find that this thread was started by a young man who is not working. I'm sure everyone of us "older" people here will tell you to bide your time. All good things come to those who wait. I've seen that Georges collection has taken over 20 years to amass, I know mine has and I'm sure others would say the same thing. We aren't all misterpoopoohead. When you think about it, puzzles aren't really that more expensive today than say the Rubik's cube was when it first came out. (I'm sure there is some economic lesson in there somewhere. 1980's dollars vs. 2000's dollars) I'm sure that by the time that the tetraminx goes mass production in 20 years or so (if it ever does) there will be people who complain about the price. But looking back, it will probably be the same value as it is today. If you want it, pay for it, if you aren't willing or able, drool and save.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:52 am 
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This is an intriguing topic and the direction things have gone are equally intriguing, and also bring to mind several other philosophical questions regarding custom puzzles in general. But I digress...

When the subject of making a custom puzzle is brought up by entusiasts and non-enthusiasts alike, there's a simple "test" I employ to illustrate the issue of making a custom puzzle. I simply use a standard rectangular sheet of paper and ask the person in question to fold the most perfect square of paper from the rectangular sheet that they are capable of.

After a few moments of eyeing and folding, the usual result is pretty close. But seldom is it truly close enough. The point I bring up is that anybody, and I really do mean anybody, should be capable of folding a perfect square. It's not difficult to line up the corner to a perfect point and then fold the edges together so that they are perfect lined up. But few seldom ever take an extra moment to make the perfect alignments, even despite being asked to make the square as perfect as possible. Why is that? Impatience over a few extra seconds or checks before committing to a crease? How about a little bit of practice folding a piece of paper?

Another analogy that I've brought up in the past is that knowing how to juggle does not make you a juggler. Truth is with enough practice you too can be a juggler. But unlike juggling, I do believe there is a relatively finite point you can achieve when it comes to hand made puzzles. Once you hit that point you should be able to duplicate any other hand made puzzle out there.

A paper square, unlike juggling, does not require a significantly greater level of skill, which is why I'm calling puzzle making a more finite ability than juggling. You really don't need years of puzzle making to have great alignment and skill, while few people will ever have the necessary skill to be a master juggler. For example I determined pretty early on that I am incapable of truly consistent, repetitive physical motion, the kind of thing a juggler has to be very good at. If I was good at that sort of thing, I'd be the 90+ "words per minute" touch typist without having the backspace being my most frequently used key.

Well I'm not sure where I'm going with all of this and I'm way overdue for bed. I think mainly I'm just trying to say that there really is nothing special about what we hand makers do. It just takes patience to achieve that high level, which is entirely a mental issue, unlike, say, being a pro NBA basketball player able to dunk over a 7 foot tall defender at the age of 19. It's a type of mastery that anybody can attain, and as the community grows we will see more of that, which will eventually drive down prices making things affordable to more people.

See? Somehow I've bridged the original topic and the direction where the topic was going. Damn, I'm good. ;)

(P.S. - Yes I'm aware that in some cases the physical can directly affect the mental...)

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:00 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
Damn, I'm good. ;)

(P.S. - Yes I'm aware that in some cases the physical can directly affect the mental...)


And a damned good builder too.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:56 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
I think mainly I'm just trying to say that there really is nothing special about what we hand makers do.


Yes I think you are spot on. There is an assumption especially from non builders that what we do is so totally amazing they could never achieve it themselves. However if anyone watched me in my shed while I was fumbling around, messing things up, spilling my resin, going through my rubbish for the umpteenth time looking for that missing 7x7x7 part they might realise what you say Jin is correct.
I think the end result (Teraminx for example) can be amazing but the actual doing of it is fairly straightforward. As I said originally all you really need is the desire. I remember when I was trying solve a cube for the first time. After a day or so I'd worked out most moves but was really struggling with the last four corners. Then I had a brain wave. How would I solve this puzzle if my life depended on it? Answer- Well I guess I'd sit down with pencil and paper and....... So that's what I did and two days later it was done.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:05 am 
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As far as I'm concerned, it's like Santa Claus . I still believe. Don't burst my bubble. You guys are wonderful. Like Santa, if everyone could do it, we would all be happy year round. Not just on Christmas morning.

I guess I could add it's like the magic of Disney as well. Some of us never let go of that feeling we get when we walk into the park. Whether it's for the first time or the 100th time. All the cares of the world melt away when we see the castle and Tinkerbell.

When I get to hold or see a new puzzle, be it handmade or mass produced, a little of that magic is in my hands. If I were to delve into building, it would be as crushing as seeing Mickey Mouse without his head. I know there is a person inside that suit, I just don't want to see it. I know that building could be done by me, I just don't want to do it. I like to keep the wonder alive. I've taken apart the regular square cubes and the square 2. Not many of the others. If I do, I'm afraid some of the wonder of hte puzzle will dissapear.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:36 am 
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katsmom wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, it's like Santa Claus . I still believe. Don't burst my bubble. You guys are wonderful. Like Santa, if everyone could do it, we would all be happy year round. Not just on Christmas morning.

I guess I could add it's like the magic of Disney as well. Some of us never let go of that feeling we get when we walk into the park. Whether it's for the first time or the 100th time. All the cares of the world melt away when we see the castle and Tinkerbell.

When I get to hold or see a new puzzle, be it handmade or mass produced, a little of that magic is in my hands. If I were to delve into building, it would be as crushing as seeing Mickey Mouse without his head. I know there is a person inside that suit, I just don't want to see it. I know that building could be done by me, I just don't want to do it. I like to keep the wonder alive. I've taken apart the regular square cubes and the square 2. Not many of the others. If I do, I'm afraid some of the wonder of hte puzzle will dissapear.


Ah but when all the mess is cleared away, the puzzle is cleaned, The stickers are applied, it works! you place it on a table and stare at it for a few moments knowing that no one else in the world has ever looked at what you are looking at right now, that's where the magic lies. Then of cause you toss it aside and start the next project!

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:39 am 
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I think we will have to agree to disagree. I'll stick with Santa, you stick with Eureka! and we will both be happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:27 am 
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katsmom wrote:
I think we will have to agree to disagree. I'll stick with Santa, you stick with Eureka! and we will both be happy.


I am having some serious trouble here, trying to visualise Santa
jumping out of his bath tub, running outside and screaming "Eureka!".

At least, that would help describe my case, which is in the middle of what has been said.

:mrgreen:


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Puzzles becoming a Financial Burden?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:37 am 
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kastellorizo wrote:
I am having some serious trouble here, trying to visualise Santa
jumping out of his bath tub, running outside and screaming "Eureka!".


Pantazis


It's EASY!!! There'll be tons of water displaced on the floor! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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