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 Post subject: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:34 am 
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Joined: Sun May 27, 2001 7:03 pm
has anyone ever thought of bandaging a mechanism of a puzzle? (rather than the pieces).

eg: a puzzle which looks like a perfectly fine 5x5x5 but you just cant turn a particular slice.

im no expert in the mechanics, but is this a possibility?


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 Post subject: Re: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Marin, CA
Given the way most puzzles are made, that would usually have the same effect as bandaging some of the outside pieces.

There are exceptions thoug. For example you could bandage together two corners of the rubik's cube without bandaging the edge between them.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:50 am 
The bandaged corners thing would be difficult to do internally. I was thinking about it and came up with an interesting idea.

Take a 3x3x3 (or any other puzzle) and drill holes in the centre of each piece. Now make D shaped bars of different lengths so you can bandage pairs od pieces without restricting intermediate pieces.

For a 3x3x3 I guess you could just use a Rubik's Game cube and make the bars to suit.

Max


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 Post subject: Re: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:59 am 
Here is a pic of what I meant.


Image


This is just to show all the different lengths for a 3x3x3. You wouldn't put that many bars on at one time!

With bars of different heights, you have another level of bandaging. Sometimes the bars can pass under each other, sometimes not. Another 'bar' that would add interest would be a simple vertical rod, this would not pass under bars but wouldn't bandage any pieces together.

An interesting puzzle?

Max


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 Post subject: Re: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Marin, CA
My head just exploded.

Someone recently posted a link to simulations of plain old sliding block puzzle which used the bandage with bars, bars can't pass under lower bars technique, and those puzzles are ... uh ... hard.

I can't claim to actually like bandage puzzles though. They make the problem difficult by depriving you of any reasoning techniques other than brute force trying all possibilities. And brute force, while tricky, is not insightful and really a computer's job.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:47 pm 
Yep, I posted the bar/tile ones too. They are hard but do-able. There are only a few possible moves at each stage, so brute force is a quick approach even by hand.

Imagine a 5x5x5 with these things attached. Just a few would make for an interesting puzzle. You would be able to develop techniques to deal with a few bars. It wouldn't have to be a brute force thing.

I must admit, I am not that keen on bandaged puzzles. I struggle with them. My favourite use for them is to give one to someone who is being cocky about solving Rubik' cubes! ;)


Max


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 Post subject: Re: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 1:54 am 
Just secure one of the spindle arms of the 5x5x5 so that the center piece can't rotate. This would effectively prevent twisting one of the six outer slices. The inner slices would be trickier, but quite possible I think.

It is possible to create internal bandaging that would result in a changing, limited set of twists (in a similar way as the bandaged 3x3x3 cube), without effectively connecting any of the pieces together. But unless you could somehow visualize the internal bandaging, it would be largely a matter of trial-and-error to see what moves are currently available. What a nightmare that would be to solve!


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 Post subject: Re: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:59 am 
This puzzle could also be used as a game.

You can tell someone a starting position, the scramble the cube, then add the bars and try to fix it.

Max


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 Post subject: Re: Bandaged mechanisms
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Marin, CA
Difficult Burr puzzles have the same not seeing what you're doing property, They wind up being very tedious and uninteresting.


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