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 Post subject: Super OctoCube [Finished]
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Hey, so this is the puzzle that I've been working on. The idea came from when I was doing some 3x3 modding and decided to attempt a cube that could turn on a 45 degree axis as well as the traditional 90 degree one. I'd seen online that people thought it wouldn't work on all layers but I figured it could between the top and bottom. So I started by modeling the pieces from a 3x3 but soon realized that some of the pieces(specifically the triangular ones right next to the centers) would be too difficult to make from traditional pieces. From there I did a quick sketch of what I wanted in Sketchup but found that the extra edge pieces would be extremely difficult to have connect to the center so I trimmed off a bit from the sides to get rid of those. From there I drew up the base faces in Inventor and shaped it out. Currently I have all the pieces done but still need to finish the core. I really like this design and think it will jumble nicely but I have a few concerns. First off, I'm afraid that the tiny triangular next to the centers will be too small and will either pop or break. Second, I'm not sure if anyone else has done this design before as it seems like a fairly simple concept although I could not find anything like it through searching online. I hope to have this puzzle done soon and even plan on making an octagonal barrel version that will be easy to make since the outer edges and corner pieces are exactly the same internally and can be interchanged. So I'm not even sure if this thing will work and would really appreciate any advice I could get on this since it's my first time making a puzzle as well as working with Inventor. Here are some pics of what I've been working on:

Imgur Gallery of the Progression:
http://imgur.com/a/yFo63#0

Any and all advice is welcomed :mrgreen:

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Last edited by Zem on Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:19 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:51 pm 
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This is really cool! So 2 of the sides can make 45 degree turns? Is this hand made?

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:04 pm 
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benpuzzles wrote:
This is really cool! So 2 of the sides can make 45 degree turns? Is this hand made?


The original one was going to be but I found it was going to be too difficult to make the smaller pieces so I'm just going to have it printed from Shapeways. I also intend for this to be one of my TSA projects for this year so I've been working on it in class. Sadly I can't use Inventor at home since I don't currently have a PC. Hopefully this winter I'll get a high end PC with the money I've been saving up and in February I can get my license so I can then stay after school and work on stuff like this. I'll make a version showing the octagonal barrel form tomorrow and post it.

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:46 pm 
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MF8 is working on this puzzle:
Attachment:
MF8.JPG
MF8.JPG [ 31.62 KiB | Viewed 2179 times ]


I believe your puzzle would be a subset of this one. Not too much info out there yet on this one. I got this image from this post:
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=301320#p301320

You might want to read that thread for some discussion of puzzles similar to this one and also some discussion of naming ideas.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:08 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
MF8 is working on this puzzle:

I believe your puzzle would be a subset of this one. Not tool much info out there yet on this one. I got this image from this post:
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=301320#p301320

You might want to read that thread for some discussion of puzzles similar to this one and also some discussion of naming ideas.

Carl

Thanks, I didn't realize MF8 was working on something so similar. I had been led to believe that that design wasn't possible so I went with this one. It seems though that the Octocube is extremely similar as well. Is this something that it would be ok for me to put up on Shapeways with it being so like those two other puzzles? I feel like I'd at least be safe with my Octagonal Barrel version of this puzzle right?

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Zem wrote:
Thanks, I didn't realize MF8 was working on something so similar. I had been led to believe that that design wasn't possible so I went with this one.
It may not be possible. All I know is that MF8 has released that picture. I can only assume it has a mechanism inside it but I don't know that. David Pitcher in the thread I pointed you to also thought this design wasn't possible so you are in very good company. I haven't tried to design one so I don't really have an opinion on rather its possible or not... but I will saying that telling someone something isn't possible is generally enough motivation around here for someone to jump up and prove you wrong. LOL!!!
Zem wrote:
It seems though that the Octocube is extremely similar as well.
WOW!!! I missed that thread... how did that happen? Thanks for the name.
Zem wrote:
Is this something that it would be ok for me to put up on Shapeways with it being so like those two other puzzles? I feel like I'd at least be safe with my Octagonal Barrel version of this puzzle right?
I'd say yes... your puzzle is different and MF8 hasn't released their mechanism so I don't believe anyone could say you copied them. However that's just my opinion. You could ask a Mod if they would consider your design a KO but I really doubt they would.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:02 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
Zem wrote:
It seems though that the Octocube is extremely similar as well.
WOW!!! I missed that thread... how did that happen? Thanks for the name.
Zem wrote:
Is this something that it would be ok for me to put up on Shapeways with it being so like those two other puzzles? I feel like I'd at least be safe with my Octagonal Barrel version of this puzzle right?
I'd say yes... your puzzle is different and MF8 hasn't released their mechanism so I don't believe anyone could say you copied them. However that's just my opinion. You could ask a Mod if they would consider your design a KO but I really doubt they would.


I wasn't referring to to MF8's design as much as Pitcher's OctoCube. Although I'm not sure what the inner mechanism is like, it looks very similar externally. If anything, I can just do the Octagonal Barrel version as that is different enough from both designs, but I may just ask a Mod's opinion on the subject or just contact Pitcher himself since I'm fairly new to all this. Thanks for the help though :D . I might actually see if I could figure out if the inner mechanism is possible for one that turns one all sides since MF8 hasn't released anything following up on that design, but I want to just finish the project first.

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:24 am 
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You'll notice the slice layers are wider than the outside layers, because they have to be as wide as the diagonal length across a corner cubie!

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:30 am 
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Zem wrote:
I wasn't referring to to MF8's design as much as Pitcher's OctoCube. Although I'm not sure what the inner mechanism is like, it looks very similar externally. If anything, I can just do the Octagonal Barrel version as that is different enough from both designs, but I may just ask a Mod's opinion on the subject or just contact Pitcher himself since I'm fairly new to all this. Thanks for the help though :D . I might actually see if I could figure out if the inner mechanism is possible for one that turns one all sides since MF8 hasn't released anything following up on that design, but I want to just finish the project first.
Yes, asking David Picther would be the way to go. After looking at his OctoCube more, does one know if the stickers were removed could it be solved to this state?
Attachment:
OctoCubeQuestion.png
OctoCubeQuestion.png [ 92.44 KiB | Viewed 2056 times ]

Even if it can't be I suspect the puzzle as purchased from Shapeways could be assembled in this state. In which case they are indeed very similiar. To make your puzzle would just involve baddaging 4 of the 6 face centers to the little tranguar pieces near them. Or another way to look at it... if you offered your puzzle on Shapeways and someone purchased 3 copies I think they would have the pieces needed to make an OctoCube.

Carl

[edit]Ok... I was too fast. There are more differences here than I first noticed. OctoCube has all 12 edges cut into smaller pieces. Your puzzles only has 8 cut edges. So to answer my first question... no OctoCube can NOT be solved into the state I pictured above. In addition to bandaging 4 face centers you also have to bandage 4 edges in order to make your puzzle from an OctoCube. That said... I still think you could make one OctoCube from 3 copies of your puzzle.[/edit]

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Thanks for all the help so far but I'm moving on to a more advanced form of this that is nothing like the original OctoCube and it does take into account some of my ideas previously mentioned. Also I learned that in addition to our two CNC machines, my high school will likely be getting a 3D Printer this year :mrgreen: I was also informed that although it is not installed on our computers yet, my school has a license for Solid Works so I hope to start working in that in the next few months. Look for an update on this project in about a week(?) and I may drop some hints until I have my design complete.

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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Ok so quick update to this project. I am now almost finished with a complete version of this puzzle, such as the one MF8 posted. I'll have pictures soon of the final version and hopefully will have it 3D printed here shortly. I will label it as a Super OctoCube or a Great Cubicuboctahedron (The geometric term for this shape). My initial problem was that I did not realize there were a few pieces that had to be hidden inside the cube. As MF8 has not yet shown any internal mechanism, I would not personally consider this puzzle a knock off in any respect. The main problem I foresee with the actual cube is popping of the small pieces so I am thinking about scaling the cube up to 65mm on each edge (making it about the size of a Rubik's brand 4x4 and V-Cube 5x5), and hopefully increasing the stability (although I'm not sure if this will help at all). I am also considering the use of a ball core to increase the stability. I'd appreciate any feedback into wether these are valid solutions or not.

Great Cubicuboctahedron:
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 Post subject: Re: My first puzzle design (Not really sure what to call it)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Zem wrote:
I'd appreciate any feedback into wether these are valid solutions or not.
I would say that generally a ball core is a good idea. It keeps small pieces from getting pushed inward... especially so if there are voids (space between pieces, not talking about hollow pieces) inside the puzzle. And yes making things bigger also helps. Sometimes if its just a single small piece that is causing problems the interior shell depth and cuts can be adjusted a bit to make a given piece bigger without changing the over all size of the puzzle. Without knowing the details of your mechanism its hard to say more. And even knowing the details as you do, it can be hard to predict which will be the problem pieces. It's not uncommon for designs to get adjusted after the first version has been printed and played with for a while to give the designer a chance to discover weaknesses and come of with ideas for improvements on the next version. For example I just designed version 2 of my Doctor Skewb and I'm currently dying version 2 of my Gear Cube Kit and already have a version 3 mostly designed out.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Super OctoCube (Great Cubicuboctahedron) [In Progress]
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:48 pm 
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Glad to say I finished the design Friday and am submitting it to Shapeways on Monday. So I should have it printed in White Polished Nylon? I do plan to dye the puzzle after recieving it. Hopefully it will work as planned! One more thing I want to add, although the outer mechanism resembles a Great Cubicuboctahedron, the inner mechanism is more represented by a Nonconvex Great Rhombicuboctahedron (although slighty bandaged). What I like about this geometric shape is that it could technically be turned into not only a face turning puzzle like mine but also an edge and corner turning one as well so I plan to explore more puzzle designs with this shape. Sadly the TSA entry category for 3D printing was removed this year(mainly due to a lack of availability of 3D priters to highschool students) so I will just be submitting this in a more general category. I also hope to have this design for sale shortly after I receive it and make sure it functions properly. Thank you all so much for the help and answering my various questions. I plan on making more designs over time and becoming a more active member of the forums.

Regards,
Zem

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 Post subject: Re: Super OctoCube [Finished]
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:31 pm 
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Sorry for the double post but I want to know the difference in print quality between the various types of printing materials and the one that would be best to choose for printing this project. Thanks :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Super OctoCube [Finished]
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:50 pm 
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Zem wrote:
Sorry for the double post but I want to know the difference in print quality between the various types of printing materials and the one that would be best to choose for printing this project. Thanks :mrgreen:

White Strong and Flexible (WSF) is the material everyone uses for printing twisty puzzles. It's the only one that has the resolution and strength needed by puzzles. All of the other Color-Strong-Flexible-Polished ones are just the WSF material polished in a vibratory tumbler with ceramic media and then dyed by Shapeways.

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