Online since 2002. Over 3300 puzzles, 2600 worldwide members, and 270,000 messages.

TwistyPuzzles.com Forum

It is currently Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:28 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Québec, Canada
Hi guys,

after seeing what Timur and luckyguynt did with the biaxe, I started to think about "self-massproducing" some of my puzzles (starting with the split jing's of course :wink: ).
So I started looking for information about companies that offers plastic injection molding services, particularly one in my city or close.
But, as I expected, this kind of service is aimed for companies, and doesn't really offers services to individuals.
Then I started to look for building my own plastic injection device. For now have found a nice tutorial.
For the molds, I know that my college (I've finished school but my brother is still there) has equipment for machining/milling ( it's called CNC i think ?) and I'm sure they will want to collaborate.

So I thought maybe that this might interest some of you and maybe you have some info to help me continue my planning :) .

I will keep you posted of my progress and research.

-James

_________________
My Shapeways shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
Hey James, you should reach out to Timur to see how he made the Biaxe. On mine, I can see what look like the imprints from very fine lines like the sort you see in FDM 3D printing. My guess is that some portion of the process used to make the parts used 3D printing. Perhaps the mold was printed and then the parts cast in it?

I suppose the lines could also be from milling of the molds but they don't strike me as the sort of pattern I'd expect from a milling machine.

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Québec, Canada
Brandon Enright wrote:
Hey James, you should reach out to Timur to see how he made the Biaxe.
luckyguynt himself described his process (paraphrased) : he put the recycled plastic in each halves of the mold, then heats the molds with an iron, then joins the two halves together. It's a little like regular casting.
His technique seems to do the job, but I find that not enough "professional" (although I know it is homemade, I just don't know how to really describe the feeling :lol: )

Also I forgot to talk about the recent Bench Model Plastic Injection Machine (mentioned by Gus) that was successfully funded on kickstarter. It is not yet available to purchase but the announced price doesn't fit my budget :mrgreen:, so I stay with the "homemade" plan.

_________________
My Shapeways shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Québec, Canada
I'm currently beginning to adapt my model for plastic injection and that's quite a lot of work! I have a basic knowledge of casting because I took a complementary course in metallurgy in college, but it is enough to realize that I do not know enough :lol: . Sprue, runners and gates ... finding the optimal solution to fill the mold equally... It's a lot to think and plan. *
And meanwhile, a question I have often asked myself came back to me : how to cast cores? Specifically 4-axis cores (eg: skewb)? I thought it might be possible to cast the core arms individually with one end like a Burr puzzle and glue them together ( I hope you understand what I mean :) )

*I recently saw that SolidWorks offers a plastic plugin that seems very useful, but I bet this isn't cheap :lol:

_________________
My Shapeways shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Québec, Canada
Hi guys, I just wanted to make a small update.

I decided to go with the tutorial for the plastic injection molder that I mentioned before and give it a shot.
I already ordered most of the components needed. In the tutorial, he used a commercially available temperature control but he made another tutorial to build one from scratch, and I decided to go this way.
So I ordered an arduino microcontroller, I'm already excited to receive it and to experiment with it :D . I'm a complete beginner in electronics but I'm sure I can manage.
Thus I decided to start by building the temperature control apparatus, as it seems to me it is the most complex part, because the injector itself only requires assembling the heaters and pipes and building the rig.

Also, I don't want to be mean, but I would really like to get answers or leads to the question I asked in my previous post. Unfortunately, 4-armed spare cores aren't as common / available as regular 6-armed ones. And if this thing works out well, I'll surely do other puzzles that will require n-armed cores. To anyone who is not seeing the problem here, the problem is that plastic injection molding use a two part mold, thus making it very difficult, or impossible, to remove complex parts from the mold.

Meanwhile, I need to get me a soldering iron and revise my high school notes (or google :mrgreen: ) on electrical circuits...

_________________
My Shapeways shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Jarrow, England
polymaker wrote:
So I ordered an arduino microcontroller, I'm already excited to receive it and to experiment with it :D . I'm a complete beginner in electronics but I'm sure I can manage.
As a novice I wish you all the best but be careful! If you need any guidance on the electronics part, just pm me and I'll try to help.

_________________
My Shapeways Shop: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/gus_shop

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 am
Location: Rye, East Sussex
This all sounds very exciting, put me down for a Split Jing! :D

_________________
How to sum up my solving skills..."I try, I try, I fail. I try, I try, PREVAIL!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Bay Area, California
polymaker wrote:
Unfortunately, 4-armed spare cores aren't as common / available as regular 6-armed ones. And if this thing works out well, I'll surely do other puzzles that will require n-armed cores.
For DIY projects like this I bet a wooden core would work just fine. Get yourself wooden spheres and drill holes in it for the screws. A tetrahedral jig should be really easy to make. On Amazon I'm seeing wooden balls for less than a dollar each.

Also, if you get the process working, put me down for a copy of the Split Jing's Pyraminx :-)

_________________
Prior to using my real name I posted under the account named bmenrigh.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:42 am
I'd be interested in a Split Jing's Pyraminx as well. Hopefully this will work out. Best of luck!

_________________
Call me Seth :)

Crazy2Face & Crazy3Face Puzzle Spreadsheet
Named 3x3x3 Bandaging Patterns


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:44 am
Possible molded Split Jing, I'd love one too!

If there is a list and I'm allowed on it :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Missouri
Brandon Enright wrote:
Also, if you get the process working, put me down for a copy of the Split Jing's Pyraminx :-)
Add me to that list. Happy to support this kind of experimentation.

Carl

_________________
-
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Québec, Canada
Thank you everyone for the support! :D It is really encouraging. I have to say that it is a little bit too early for a list! :lol: I'll start by trying to make it all work and then we'll talk about a list. :wink:
Even though the planning seems well advanced and I'm already beginning to put it together, I have still no progress about the mold making (not because I can't find any information, but rather I haven't made ​​any real research yet).

Side note: I just received my Arduino board that I ordered yesterday and now I'm playing with LEDs. :scrambled: Turns out Amazon's "two-day shipping" has turned into an half-day shipping, which is really nice!

_________________
My Shapeways shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:36 am
Location: Russia
I wanted too to make 4-armed core.

For today F-skewb is deeply-frozen-project (maybe it's very difficult for me and maybe I'll turn to it back), but here's my vision of core.

Mold consists of four identical pieces that are going to stud bolts. Rename file extension from .txt for .sldprt and please, don't laugh, I'm not Cool Profy in SW. :)


Attachments:
4-armed core.JPG
4-armed core.JPG [ 29.96 KiB | Viewed 804 times ]
Core_Mold1.txt [397.5 KiB]
Downloaded 12 times
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Québec, Canada
luckyguynt wrote:
Mold consists of four identical pieces that are going to stud bolts.
Very clever :!: I had not realized that I am not restricted to only use a two-part mold! :lol: Thanks for the tip.

_________________
My Shapeways shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:36 am
Location: Russia
SolidWorks is a parametric software, and you can design the spider to your liking, using my example.

If you need a mold consisting of two parts, you can try version 4, but don't forget about the slants on vertical walls and embedded rods that form the holes.

Attachment:
mold_V1.JPG
mold_V1.JPG [ 16.98 KiB | Viewed 656 times ]
Attachment:
mold_V2.JPG
mold_V2.JPG [ 17.98 KiB | Viewed 656 times ]
Attachment:
mold_V3.JPG
mold_V3.JPG [ 16.01 KiB | Viewed 656 times ]
Attachment:
mold_V4.JPG
mold_V4.JPG [ 13.76 KiB | Viewed 656 times ]

Also I remembered the Meffert's 8-armed ball core (you can use not every hole :wink: ), but can not find it now in stores.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Nice designs, but I suggest taking a closer look at the first mold design as it will not quite work... Can you figure out why?


Also, I do not recommend trying to mold a core for a short run puzzle. If there is a core already in use, you could try to buy some through one of the puzzle shops, or if not, then print them on shapeways. The precision of the core is essential for making a good quality puzzle. For the short runs of cast helicopter cubes and gigaminxes, I used printed cores with cast pieces for the remainder of the puzzle, and the puzzles turned out great. Good design and casting were also important, but if the hole in the core arm is off by only a slight amount, it could cause serious issues with the puzzle...


Good luck with your project!

Adam

_________________
I will not Reason and Compare: my business is to Create. -William Blake

Videos on Youtube!

New Designs on Shapeways!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Québec, Canada
I have now completely redesigned the Split Jing's. My previous design had some stability issues and was a little catchy. With the new design I improved the stability and also I tried to add a little "speed cube" feel to it. Tell me what you think about it! (you can see a comparison between some of the parts of the two design bellow)

Now I'm having a hard time building the molds. The majority of the pieces are symmetric, and therefore easy to mold, but some pieces really want me to abandon the project :lol: Specifically the center piece (not shown in the picture) and an edge piece (the third to the left). I can't make a simple flat two-part mold for those pieces, rather the mold will have raised/recessed borders around the pieces to follow the pieces curvature.

Also, it is sure that I plan to use this model for production, but I'm not absolutely sure it is functional. Of course, 3D printing it would settle the matter, but if this was an option, I wouldn't be talking about it :lol: In fact, all costs and expenses that this project requires is far beyond my usual budget for collecting twisty's... So I don't plan to prototype it for now, and I'll take the chance that it works. I do not want to give the impression that I request for someone to prototype-it for me, but I would really appreciate it :D . So if someone would like to test it, I can put it available in my Shapeways shop. (p.s. I wont be making the mold until the injector is complete and functioning, so it is not urgent)


Attachments:
File comment: top row : new design
bottom row: old design

pieces comparison.png
pieces comparison.png [ 222.63 KiB | Viewed 527 times ]

_________________
My Shapeways shop
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:36 am
Location: Russia
Puzzlemaster42 wrote:
Nice designs.....

Totally agree twice:

1. Mold #1 won't be successful because of undercuts. But I don't bother about it, because it's a prototype, crude idea that needs more of work.
Attachment:
mold_V1-fixed.JPG
mold_V1-fixed.JPG [ 33.19 KiB | Viewed 497 times ]

2. Printed spider - maybe the best option. Nylon more sturdy material than ABS (I tried to cut shapeways parts with a knife - this is comparable to PET bottle neck), and printed parts are of high precision. But I think polymaker wants to try to get all the parts by molding, and if something will come not OK, it's not too late to change molded parts for printed ones at any time.

And thank you, Adam, for your accuracy and attentiveness.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Plastic injection molding
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:36 am
Location: Russia
polymaker wrote:
I have now completely redesigned the Split Jing's...

I thought about it when worked with some my projects - maybe I need to divide some difficult details for slices and then bring them together with glue or screws? Now I think about it when looking on your parts. It's not new thought - Meffert does the same.
Attachment:
DSCN1847-1-1.jpg
DSCN1847-1-1.jpg [ 53.52 KiB | Viewed 288 times ]

I hope Mr. Meffert won't mind if you'll slice yours. Also slicing will simplify building of internal cavities, if you're planning to reduce usefull volume and weight of plastic.

And also one moment. This puzzle is very complex. I don't doubt about your abilities, but if I were you, I'd start to explore new technology and new equipment with something more easy. Maybe reduced copy of Jing's pyraminx, if it's so close to you.

Don't want to be tiresome, just my thoughts.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Forum powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group