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 Post subject: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Hi, does anybody have a link to a mechanism for a Little Chop/24 cube. I need one for my newest puzzle project and can't seem to find a diagram anywhere.

Thanks,

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:48 am 
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TGCubes wrote:
Hi, does anybody have a link to a mechanism for a Little Chop/24 cube. I need one for my newest puzzle project and can't seem to find a diagram anywhere.
The best I know of is this:
viewtopic.php?p=121997#p121997


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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Well, lets work through this
The little chop is based on a face turning rhombic dodecahedron. SO, off to Jaap's sphere page

What is the smallest number you can input on a rhombic dodecahedron symmetry that will still have a piece connected to the core?

Just a heads up, you can click in the black area right below the 4th slider on the sphere applet to get a link like this one:
http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/sphere.h ... e=329,49,0


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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Great topic Andreas. As for Sphere, I didn't know that the Little Chop was based off a rhombic dodecahedron! Thanks!

TBTTyler wrote:

What is the smallest number you can input on a rhombic dodecahedron symmetry that will still have a piece connected to the core?



Well, technically, 1. But that is unrealistic, so I'd say something along the lines of 24 would work best.

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May the dolphins spread the word to the rest of Gaia


Pyraminx PB: 9.42 secs
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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:23 pm 
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TGCubes wrote:
Great topic Andreas. As for Sphere, I didn't know that the Little Chop was based off a rhombic dodecahedron! Thanks!
TBTTyler wrote:
What is the smallest number you can input on a rhombic dodecahedron symmetry that will still have a piece connected to the core?
Well, technically, 1. But that is unrealistic, so I'd say something along the lines of 24 would work best.
No, 24 or 1 is not even close! No single piece can be connected directly to the core with cuts that deep.

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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:31 pm 
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:oops: I guess that was trick question. This puzzle is a new thing to me, so... yeah.

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Pyraminx PB: 9.42 secs
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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:36 pm 
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It is extremely tricky to design. You have to start from something like a Helicopter Cube (which is what Tyler is hinting at) and then gradually build up to deeper puzzles to finally end up with a 24-Cube. By no means easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:56 pm 
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TomZ wrote:
It is extremely tricky to design. You have to start from something like a Helicopter Cube (which is what Tyler is hinting at) and then gradually build up to deeper puzzles to finally end up with a 24-Cube. By no means easy.


Sounds like a good idea. I guess you're right. Maybe I shouldn't nose dived right into this.

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May the dolphins spread the word to the rest of Gaia


Pyraminx PB: 9.42 secs
3x3 PB: 34.77 secs


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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:11 pm 
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TGCubes wrote:
:oops: I guess that was trick question. This puzzle is a new thing to me, so... yeah.

It's not a trick question, though it *IS* tricky ;) But that is not a reason to give up!

Let's look at something like 278
See how there's a definite inside and outside to the circles.
The area that's outside all those circles is what we would call the core of the puzzle.
The area inside the circles are what we would normally call the centers of a puzzle.
But right now, there's no puzzle. You could say this was like a Rubik's Cube where you had removed all the edges and corners leaving just the spinning centers.

Now lets go a little deeper. Around 230
Look closely. Now that the circles are partially overlapping, where can you see the core of the puzzle? (it might help to drag the slider around a little bit)
Where are 2 circles overlapping? where are 3? Where is there just 1?

When I asked, "What is the smallest number you can input on a rhombic dodecahedron symmetry that will still have a piece connected to the core?" I was asking for the smallest number where there is still a region that has just 1 circle.


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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Ahh, I see now. The number is more like 261.

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May the dolphins spread the word to the rest of Gaia


Pyraminx PB: 9.42 secs
3x3 PB: 34.77 secs


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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:22 pm 
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TGCubes wrote:
Ahh, I see now. The number is more like 261.


Not quite ... I didn't mean *only* regions that had only 1. I meant that those regions still existed.
230 still has areas that only 1 deep.


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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:25 pm 
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You could push it for 154. Well, maybe not that deep, but you can have these extra parts in the first shell of the mechanism.

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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Okay, I believe 152 is the last possible setting with layers that are one deep.

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Quote:
May the dolphins spread the word to the rest of Gaia


Pyraminx PB: 9.42 secs
3x3 PB: 34.77 secs


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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Hey, it might be a good idea to take this to the chatroom:
http://www.tomvanderzanden.nl/tpchat/
If you have no objections, I'd still like to post the relevant replies here when we're done.


And yes, 152 is just about right. But, in reality, there's no way you could ever get a screw through that tiny tiny piece. So let's back up a bit. 180 is good.


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 Post subject: Re: Little Chop/24 Cube Mechanism?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:13 pm 
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OK, yay double post, but this one's useful.
Here's the relevant stuff from the chat. Just for record's sake:


[13:32:47] Luke: So... Little Chop mechanisms
[13:33:08] TGCubes: I think 180 is where we left off
[13:33:09] TBTTyler: So, let's say 180 is a good number
[13:33:45] TBTTyler: Now we need a second layer on top of this to hold everything in
[13:34:10] TGCubes: Similar to a shelf mechanism, no?
[13:34:17] TBTTyler: it's the square center sitting on top of the smaller peg of a rubik's cube
[13:34:17] Luke: Just so you know, for mechanical reasons it is better to start off with a Helicopter Cube than say a Curvy Copter II
[13:36:02] TBTTyler: But let's just keep going with this. Right now, it's theoretical. We can add shells in whenever we need
[13:37:17] TBTTyler: So, for that next little shelf, all we need is something where that 1-deep diamond is a bit larger
[13:38:24] TBTTyler: This one's pretty simple .. just make the number a little larger. 194 is good in theory
[13:38:39] TBTTyler: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/sphere.h ... 31,129,189
[13:39:07] TBTTyler: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/sphere.h ... 31,129,189 (showing the difference)
[13:39:48] TGCubes: Alright, seems simple enough.
[13:39:48] TBTTyler: Now, here's the tough part
[13:40:57] TBTTyler: now we have to grow those circles (lower the number) until None of the current pieces still exist
[13:42:08] TGCubes: Okay. So around 94.
[13:42:25] TBTTyler: not quite
[13:42:26] TBTTyler: keep going
[13:42:29] TBTTyler: see that triangle
[13:42:46] TBTTyler: see how it turns into the hexagon going from 180 -> 94
[13:42:51] Luke: Are you getting to the point of this? http://prntscr.com/9a7ks
[13:43:26] TBTTyler: ish
[13:43:28] TGCubes: Yes, I am Luke. Yeah, I see that. The triangular piece dissapears. Must of missed that
[13:43:58] Luke: My bad, the shells were jumped a bit
[13:44:00] TBTTyler: That triangular face doesn't disappear, it just changes into the hexagon
[13:44:06] Luke: Yeah there are other shells in between
[13:44:37] TGCubes: I think we are talking about 2 different triangles. :/
[13:44:58] TBTTyler: Quite possibly
[13:45:31] TBTTyler: maybe go the other way ... look at the hexagon at 94
[13:45:55] TGCubes: yes
[13:45:58] TBTTyler: then watch how it turns into the big triangle
[13:46:04] TBTTyler: as you raise the number
[13:46:45] TGCubes: So yes, we were talking about two different triangles. I understand now.
[13:48:10] TBTTyler: So where does that triangle turned hexagon disappear?
[13:51:33] TGCubes: is the number around 75?
[13:51:51] TBTTyler: Nope, that hexagon is still there
[13:52:07] TBTTyler: think of it like the paint bucket from MSPaint
[13:52:12] Luke: By hexagons we're talking about the cube corners, correct?
[13:52:25] TBTTyler: yes
[13:52:39] Eric_Vergo_O: the 24 cube shells mech typically has 2 parts that look like hexagons
[13:52:47] TGCubes: Well, the hexagon doesn't dissapear until 0.
[13:52:52] TBTTyler: exactly
[13:52:57] TGCubes: I thought you meant the triangle
[13:53:04] Luke: Huzzarh! Little Chop made!
[13:53:10] Luke: Although now you have the bandaging
[13:53:21] TBTTyler: but the triangle is the same thing as the hexagon!
[13:54:14] TBTTyler: Another way to think about this: starting from around 230, those triangles appear
[13:54:34] TBTTyler: and those triangles are 3-deep
[13:54:44] Eric_Vergo_O: 3 what deep?
[13:54:57] TGCubes: Okay. Layers, I presume.
[13:55:03] TBTTyler: right
[13:55:08] TBTTyler: 3 overlapping circles
[13:55:24] TBTTyler: http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/sphere.h ... 45,102,201
[13:55:47] TBTTyler: And that triangle stays a triangle 'till about 150
[13:56:31] TGCubes: And then it turns into a hexagon. BTW, is this the layer that we are seeing in the link Andreas provided?
[13:56:52] bmenrigh: The layer in the picture Andreas showed was the 3.3.5 layer
[13:57:59] Luke: TGCubes, that image is the same puzzle as this http://prntscr.com/9a7ks
[13:58:07] Luke: This is the internal mechanism of the 24 cube
[13:58:33] TBTTyler: yep ... that's around a depth of 70
[13:59:09] Luke: To change this into a litle chop, you need to cover up the rest of the pieces with the little chop pieces, and then bandage the internals to prevent misalignment


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