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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:30 am 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
@D B
Still waiting to know what the best lube is for wsf :lol:


CRC silicone lubricant. The one in the red can.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:10 am 
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Derek Bosch wrote:
still waiting for the video before we declare you the next Oskar :)

Why not just give PuzzleMaster6262 his own crown- the Puzzle Master? There's no reason to dethrone Oskar since he still blows our minds away with every puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:19 pm 
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let's still wait and see how this works...
I'm still a skeptic... no offense intended...


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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Derek Bosch wrote:
let's still wait and see how this works...
I'm still a skeptic... no offense intended...

Do you think it is fake? I'll take that as a compliment! :lol: You must think I am super rich and able to print off fake puzzle from Shapeways. Later today I will post a lot more pics, including the three boxes from Shapeways needed to ship this beast! :lol:

The world's most expensive paper weight! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:32 pm 
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I just really want to see it in action, thats all...
this is like the holy grail of puzzles, so it is exciting...

I can easily post pictures of many shapeways boxes - that doesn't mean anything!


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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:13 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Do you think it is fake? I'll take that as a compliment! :lol: You must think I am super rich and able to print off fake puzzle from Shapeways. Later today I will post a lot more pics, including the three boxes from Shapeways needed to ship this beast! :lol:

The world's most expensive paper weight! :lol:


Put your money where your mouth is and make a video then.

I don't know how you did the 2x2 part, but I'm telling you, its very easy to pull off, and I have the mechanism to prove it.

So quit teasing us and just post a video :P

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:19 pm 
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I don't have any money, I built this :lol:

I will not post a video for a while but I should have many pictures of it actually rotated up later today.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:39 pm 
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HOLD IT!
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
I don't have any money, I built this :lol:


I believe this sentence as it stands contradicts your earlier testimony...

PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
three boxes from Shapeways needed to ship this beast! :lol:


Allow me to point out that a shipment requiring 3 boxes of printed supplies does not come at a cheap cost. Does this mean you claim to not have any additional money have any sort of video equipment? Can you not simply utilize your camera to record a video mode to which you can effectively prove your puzzle functions?

I'll admit I find your denial for producing a video of this feat suspicious. however the puzzle is very possible. if you do not provide a video I think many will not believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:07 pm 
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drewseph being impatient. this is big... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:43 pm 
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.... Not true in the least. While this puzzle is interesting, I find it very convenient that he has images of the assembled puzzle, yet refuses to present a video demonstrating its functionality. To me I am more interested in seeing the puzzle in action.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:46 pm 
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I was meaning I didn't have any extra money to put where my mouth is, as Garrett said.

I don't care if anyone thinks this is real or not :lol: The fact is it is real(although turning currently sucks) and I will post more pictures and video when I am ready.

As for video equipment, I have high quality stuff and that is not the reason I haven't made a video.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:49 pm 
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Then we patiently await your presentation.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Before taking the puzzle apart(again :lol: ), I thought I should atleast show a picture of it rotated.






Attachment:
DSCN2503.JPG
DSCN2503.JPG [ 364.17 KiB | Viewed 3746 times ]

Ta da :lol: Did you expect a larger rotation? :mrgreen:
After assembling it for the third time, I will post many pictures of it really rotated and maybe even a video! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:46 pm 
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I have a question that's directed at PuzzleMaster6262 or anyone that has come up with a very novel new mech they choose not to share publically...

I'm a physicists/engineer by trade so I LOVE to understand how things work so this is what drives this question. I concede that all of you have the right to keep anything secret for any reason and as such you have every right to ignore this question but I hope its atleast ok if I ask it.

Why keep mechs like these to yourself? I don't have the means or time to be making novel new puzzles for sale but I do enjoy coming up with new mechs myself. Here is one of mine:

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17890

It uses an idea that I think is new and novel... at least I haven't see it before. Sure I've put it out there where it can be copied and stolen by others but I honestly would be flattered if they did. Its a complicated enough mech that I don't think there is any real money to be made there and with puzzles like this 48 Cube with 400 pieces I don't see any way any real money can be made producing it. You say you put over 4 years into this puzzle and its that kind of love of puzzles that drives people to make these wonderful creations. So what is gained by keeping the mech to yourself? If shared others could see how this works and come up with new twists on the ideas behind it themselves and the puzzle community grows as a whole. Oscar is very open with his mechs so if it is money behind the decision money can still be made while being open. My Circle MixUp Cube idea might not exist if I didn't understand how Oscar's puzzle worked. Heck if someone steals one of my ideas and does manage to get it mass produced I think I'd be happy just to be able to get a physical copy of my idea that I could play with. I understand not everyone feels the same and I don't expect them to, but in cases like these I see the potential for those that love puzzles to come up with truly amazing puzzles... I might even be one of them if I understood this mech... and I see little to gain by keeping it secret. Just my opinion... you are free to disagree.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:11 pm 
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I will release everything about this mech, eventually :lol: Atleast with me, I would like to have a chance to discover the limits before puzzles start using my mech and stealing the spotlight. What I mean is, I don't want to spend 4 years designing a new mech and then have other people use it to make new puzzles before I can finish them myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:26 pm 
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I don't understand why you refuse to make a video when it only takes about 15-20 minutes to film and upload a video on youtube. I'm assuming that if you have such time to build this puzzle, then 20 minutes shouldn't be a problem for you. Even though the turning quality might not be satisfying, which could be expected based on what we saw about the 24-cube/Little Chop. I'm sure we all are just wanting to see if your mechanism actually works or not, not much of how well it turns as this is a very complicated puzzle. If a picture could say a thousand of words, then I'm sure a video would say a thousand times more than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:31 pm 
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magnets?


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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Sure, 20 minutes to make a video.

10 hours to assemble it :lol: (I'm getting faster and faster :D )

I promise that after I have sprayed the pieces with silicone and assembled it, I will work on uploading a video. Then I will spend a couple days working on it and post a new video with it 100 percent finished. Any objections? :lol:

@eye2eye
No magnets. Only plastic pieces and bolts :D

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:12 pm 
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wwwmwww wrote:
I have a question that's directed at PuzzleMaster6262 or anyone that has come up with a very novel new mech they choose not to share publically...

Why keep mechs like these to yourself?

I'd be glad to share some of the novel ideas I've got, I just need a CAD that actually saves in a CAD format. (The CAD experience I have saves in .CPP, as it is a game designer.) I know that's probably a discussion for another thread though.

I can't wait to see it capped and stickered. I agree with PuzzleMaster6262- don't be impatient about a video. It'd be a much nicer video if it was completely finished (as opposed to my puzzle of his design).

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:59 pm 
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I just finished spraying the pieces with silicone so within 24 hours, I might have a video uploaded :D

As for the mech, I have taken plenty of pictures throughout the building and plan to show all of them eventually. I also need to make a name for it :lol:

Also, would it be safe to assume this is the most complicated puzzle ever built? I need to make a good description of it for the YouTube video :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:12 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Also, would it be safe to assume this is the most complicated puzzle ever built?:


No, I think Drew's Starminx series has gone unchallenged so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:21 pm 
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You do have a point with the starminx 2...

However, that puzzle atleast can have a stable core. I personally think this is the worlds most mechanically impossible puzzle ever built :D

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:33 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
I personally think this is the worlds most mechanically impossible puzzle ever built :D


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Perhaps the long list of puzzles from Oskar have eluded you. While the 2x2 chop is indeed a feat of engineering, it is far from being an impossibility...

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:49 pm 
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I guess I will have to wait a while before proclaiming it the world's greatest puzzle :lol:

If you understood the many dead ends I encountered over the past 4 years, you would agree with me. Oskar's puzzles are amazing but they still follow the rubik's cube's basic mechanism concept. This puzzle would be impossible to build using the concept of a spider holding pieces in. Ofcourse, my opinions are biased :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:03 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Oskar's puzzles are amazing but they still follow the rubik's cube's basic mechanism concept. This puzzle would be impossible to build using the concept of a spider holding pieces in. Ofcourse, my opinions are biased :lol:


Image

Before you go about making comparisons at least make sure you have your facts in order. Having said that....

Image
You could not be further from the truth! The facts are that Oskars mechanisms are on a level of originality and complication far beyond anything the original rubiks cube mechanism represents. Granted the spider mechanism is the grandfather of modern puzzles the truth is that Oskars puzzles have evolved in countless optimizations to allow for movment in unimaginable ways. to compare his puzzles to the engineering of a simple cube is insulting.... Yet we cannot deny the fact that we all owe Erno a great deal for introducing this to the world.

Image
Regarding your statement about this puzzle not being possible with a spider mechanism. Once again you are far from the truth. in fact this very puzzle almost requires a spider to remain perfectly aligned.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:12 pm 
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@Drewseph: While what you say makes perfect sense and is completely honest could you use a bit fewer animations? They're just expanding the page and making it harder to read your points.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:18 pm 
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What I meant about Oskar was his puzzles are based off the concept of the rubik's cube, just like almost all other puzzles. His puzzles are amazing but different then this.

If you don't think this puzzle is amazing, that is fine with me :D However, I would bet all my remaining money that this puzzle is the most _______ puzzle ever made :lol: I have no idea how to word it. However, this puzzle has never been made before for a reason.

Also, you need to remember it is fully functional. The only way to make this puzzle is to make a 48 cube :lol: It can't just be one puzzle ontop of another.

@Rentlix
I like the animations :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:21 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
The only way to make this puzzle is to make a 48 cube :lol: It can't just be one puzzle ontop of another.


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Is that so? Why is it that I am looking at the blueprints showing proof of a fully functional puzzle? From what i can tell, this is indeed as simple as laying two puzzles on top of one another.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:27 pm 
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Rotate a 2x2x2 slice 45 degrees. That results in the 2x2x2 cut aligning with the 24 cube cut. If the 2x2x2 mechanism was just the core of a 24 cube, you would not be able to rotate along this slice because the internal 2x2x2 would not be able to rotate. If I finish assembling the puzzle tonight, I will post pictures of what I'm explaining.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:35 pm 
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Perhaps you didn't understand? This is acceptable as you have not yet seen the blueprints. But my documents show that a 45 degree 2x2 turn would be perfectly legal.

rather, the 2x2 cuts would not be blocked as they are already divided simply by the Chop mechanism existing to begin with

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:47 pm 
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If you were right, this puzzle would be nothing special :lol:

In your blueprints, do you have a 2x2x2 or little chop as the core?

After rotating 90 degrees on a 24 cube cut, can your puzzle rotate?

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:56 pm 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
If you were right, this puzzle would be nothing special :lol:

In your blueprints, do you have a 2x2x2 or little chop as the core?

After rotating 90 degrees on a 24 cube cut, can your puzzle rotate?


Just to clear some things up, it is My mockup that Drew is referring to, and yes I believe it will function as you have described.

The way it works is you start with a 24-cube mech, then build a 2x2 mech around it and split that mechanism along the 24 cube cuts. That is the basic concept behind what I am talking about, but making it actually function properly is a bit more work. Essentially they are 2 independent mechanisms that happen to line up in ways that allow for them to coexist.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:08 am 
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That would not work :lol:

The problem is, the 24 cube core would block the rotation if you rotated it 90 degrees. Unless the 2x2x2 is special, it would also not work when you rotate it 45 degrees. I can back this up if you don't get my reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:17 am 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
That would not work :lol:

The problem is, the 24 cube core would block the rotation if you rotated it 90 degrees. Unless the 2x2x2 is special, it would also not work when you rotate it 45 degrees. I can back this up if you don't get my reasons.


You don't have to believe me. I so far have not doubted your claims, despite the overwhelming evidence against you, so is it asking too much for the same consideration?


(message truncated and resent as PM. forgot this is a public forum.)

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Last edited by Garrett on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:19 am 
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I agree with Garrett. Please try to be the least bit humble and open minded :?


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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:23 am 
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Puzzle"Master" please get over your ego that is obviously to large, and annoying for this forum. Please think things through, you are probably annoying almost all of the forum. For all of us, think before you type :x

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:23 am 
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You're attacking Garret's mech without seeing it but you want us to believe that your mech works without us seeing it? Sounds a bit hypocritical.

Anywho, if the puzzle is real and 100% FF, I can't wait to see more pics & video.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:30 am 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
That would not work :lol:


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Gah, surely you have to believe it will work. especially after hearing it from garrett himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:35 am 
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Wow wow wow!

I was not meaning anything in a harsh or negative way. All I was saying was this puzzle can not be made with a 2x2x2 or 24 cube as the core and be fully functional.

Everything I have said has been light hearted. Don't start getting negative towards me :lol: If you have a problem with something I said, hopefully I can explain it :D

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:39 am 
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Taxicab2112 wrote:
Puzzle"Master" please get over your ego that is obviously to large, and annoying for this forum. Please think things through, you are probably annoying almost all of the forum. For all of us, think before you type

I see this as nothing but an attack (trolling, as some forums call it). Ego doesn't really make too big of a difference when he is the ONLY one in this ENTIRE FORUM to have actually made this puzzle. Just because he wants to test his mechanism's limits before announcing it doesn't mean he's being completely unreasonable. And the people who he's arguing with have not even hinted what their designs would look like. He has the right to speak. And besides, as Garrett posted, the discussion has moved to PMs, so we can finally get off this annoying topic. EDIT: I stand corrected by those posts.

I can guarantee you, he has another design queued for release later that truly does match his ego.

Synester wrote:
I agree with Garrett. Please try to be the least bit humble and open minded

Garrett wrote:
For the last time, Blender is NOT A CAD SOFTWARE.

Garrett's quote from the "Best CAD Software?" thread. Just making a point.



@PuzzleMaster6262 I think you should give them what they want pretty soon- a video and the mech. While I like surprises, and would like to see what this mech can do before seeing it, others would love to spoil the fun in skepticism.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:42 am 
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Rentlix,

the only problems being had are that of his assurance that his mechanism is the only way, which it is clearly not true. After we made it clear the core was a 24 cube mech he refuses to accept it as a stable mechanism.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:47 am 
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@Rentlix
I don't have an ego :lol:

As for videos and the mech, hopefully I will be posting many pictures tonight and a video in the morning but the mech is staying secret atleast for a while.

I know I can't please everyone, but I will never stop trying :lol:

@Drew
It might work and it might be stable. What I'm saying is, it would not be fully functional the way you described it to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:56 am 
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@PuzzleMaster6262 Ego was the word taxicab used, so that's the word I went with. It's not bad to have ego. I used to pretty egotistical, and being on this forum taught me pretty quickly to not be. But they do have a point. Considering you and Garrett haven't actually seen each others mechs, I see no reason to argue whether either one works. (I confess to hypocriticism.)

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:04 am 
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Rentlix wrote:
@PuzzleMaster6262 Ego was the word taxicab used, so that's the word I went with. It's not bad to have ego. I used to pretty egotistical, and being on this forum taught me pretty quickly to not be. But they do have a point. Considering you and Garrett haven't actually seen each others mechs, I see no reason to argue whether either one works. (I confess to hypocriticism.)

That discussion has moved to pms.

Now let's try to keep this thread about my mechanism and puzzle from now on :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:12 am 
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How can we talk about your mech if we don't know anything about it?

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:12 am 
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Location: Colorado
This puzzle has amazing turning quality thanks to CRC Silicone Spray(thanks Garrett) and the low friction design! :D The only bad quality about the turning is the internal pieces locking up. This will be fixed before a video is made.


Size compared to a v cube 7.
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Rotated 45 degrees along 2x2x2 cut.
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Jumbled after 45 degree rotation.
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24 cube partial rotation.
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24 cube rotated 90 degrees.
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Jumbled after 90 degree rotation.
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I have decided NOT to make a video until the puzzle is 100 percent finished. Anyone still think this is fake :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:15 am 
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I would really be surprised if it was, and also extremely annoyed that you went through all this trouble and got all this attention just to trick everyone. I, naive as I may be, refuse to believe that anyone worthy of being a member on this forum would do something like that. Though it is slightly annoying to be "teased" like this (by tease I mean shown a part of a puzzle like this, but not being shown "proof" that it is as functional as you say it is), I in some way understand your approach. If I made this puzzle, I would never just show off the mechanism just anywhere, and I guess the suspense makes it even more interesting once a video is actually shown. That being said, I would like to congratulate you on making this, and also I'll wait patiently for you to show a video, as if this puzzle is everything you claim it to be, being careful about showing the mech etc is absolutely understandable.


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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:33 am 
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I find it weird how you believe so many things are impossible only because you did not succeed in making the puzzle in such a way, quite frankly looking at what you have build before I would say it is impossible that you made this puzzle.
I do believe this puzzle is real but I feel no need to congratulate you for it, you have done that yourself far too much allready.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:13 am 
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I am sure the puzzle is real (and a great achievement), but I have to agree: the ego/attitude and unnecessary hype/teasing are starting to grind a little.

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 Post subject: Re: Cross Cube/48 Cube
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:31 am 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
I am sure the puzzle is real (and a great achievement), but I have to agree: the ego/attitude and unnecessary hype/teasing are starting to grind a little.

This!

But really, I personally was more annoyed at the attitude. If you'll also notice most people do not post new puzzles until they have shown extensive photos of the puzzle in action before stickers, or they wait until its done.

Had this puzzle been posted in "Puzzle Building and Modding" Than aside from the ego of saying its impossible to do any other way, I would have been patient in awaiting any more pictures and even a video.

Indeed it is great that you were able to creat a puzzle which appears to function, but the delivery of this would have been much more appreciated had you avoided being almost "trollish"

Having said that, great photos, are the parts in SLS (strong flexible)?? if so, good luck with sanding or smoothing the parts. SLS does not sand very well at all.

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