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 Post subject: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Back in 1982 the worlds largest Rubik's cube came to be... Even if you could call it a real one... only 2 sides turned. So what i want to do by the end of 2010 is to make the worlds largest FULLY FUNCTIONAL Rubik's cube. It has always been a dream of mine to be able to do this but I have no clue where or how to start. I want to make it 9 ft by 9 ft to beat the old one by a good 50%. Any ideas at all would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: I will wait for about 2 weeks as of July 19th for people to stick their ideas on this thread as to how to make the cube big but light enough to actually turn. I was thinking some sort of expanding, hardening foam insidethe peices for the weight aspect of it.

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Last edited by Jamo on Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Well, my suggestion would be make it out of wood first, then go back and sheet it with plastic or something. (Obviously thick plastic). Your problems will mainly be in the core I would think. Also, first step would be to plan it out. Plan materials, dimensions, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:29 pm 
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funmonkey54 wrote:
Well, my suggestion would be make it out of wood first, then go back and sheet it with plastic or something. (Obviously thick plastic). Your problems will mainly be in the core I would think. Also, first step would be to plan it out. Plan materials, dimensions, etc.


Actually I would think the hardest part would be finding screws and spring big enough lol :)


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:57 pm 
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You would definitely not want to use a screw. Bolt would be much better.

This could probably be accomplished 100% by Plywood and other kinds of wood (2x4's etc) .

Do you know remotely anything about construction or woodworking?

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:03 am 
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Funny, I was just talking with the TechShop founder about what would be involved in building a large 3x3x3.

I was considering using their Shop Bot (garage sized CNC mill) to cut the core of pieces (not the actual core) out of foam, then laser cutting acrylic to form an exterior skin so it would be smooth but light.

It would be a lot of work though.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:54 am 
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It would be fairly simple to build a very large core out of PVC pipe, which can be made as large as you like. The internal "masters" could then be cut from polystyrene foam, and the cubies (inside anyway) could be made from fibreglass, with coloured acrylic panels cut out for the external caps.

It would be a fair bit of work no doubt, but I think the scale of it may make it a bit easier than some projects, owing to the room to "fake" things :)

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:08 am 
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perhaps also you should include a design which assists in turning so that an individual may play with it. otherwise you may need a group of people working together to turn the sides of this massive puzzle (which may not be a bad thing!)

best of luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:50 pm 
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I think possibley the most stable design for this out of wood, would be Aleh's one peice 3d print 3x3. If anyone could find a link to the post, it would be greatly appreciated. It takes no screws or springs, and the hardest part of it, would be getting Aleh to let you in on the mech.

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:46 am 
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First, at 9 feet a side, you certainly need to go for light weight if you want it to move easily. How do you intend to access all sides? If you are planning for the cube to be "free floating" then you may never get it light enough for someone unassisted to roll the cube over. So I would suggest fixing one corner at a base (similar to the rubik's stand, but only one cubie touched) and placing motors in the core assisted by some gears to allow the cube to turn "itself". Then you could build a remote control to allow use. You could even program the cube to scramble! You could also fix one center cap on a base to minimize risk of wires tangling if you don't use wireless transmitters. Although here you would have difficulty seeing the top and or bottom face.

For the construction, there are many options. The more expensive I would suggest would be carbon fiber (like in the fancy sports cars). Light weight to strength ratio, but pricey. Or you could frame out the cubes in aluminum and skin the cubes with thin sheets of plastic, wood, etc. I would strongly suggest hollow pieces as that would keep the weight down (close off only what will be seen). It will also help reduce friction between the pieces.

For the friction piece of the problem there is a material I worked with at a scene shop years back. I don't remember the name of it any more but it was a low friction plastic that we used to line tracks for motorized scenery. If you ask around plastic shops I'm sure you will find something similar or even better. Keep in mind you want to minimize the surface area where the pieces will be touching. Less are means less friction but also less strength.

Good luck and keep us updated.

-Adam-

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:48 pm 
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wronginthehead wrote:
First, at 9 feet a side, you certainly need to go for light weight if you want it to move easily. How do you intend to access all sides? If you are planning for the cube to be "free floating" then you may never get it light enough for someone unassisted to roll the cube over. So I would suggest fixing one corner at a base (similar to the rubik's stand, but only one cubie touched) and placing motors in the core assisted by some gears to allow the cube to turn "itself". Then you could build a remote control to allow use. You could even program the cube to scramble! You could also fix one center cap on a base to minimize risk of wires tangling if you don't use wireless transmitters. Although here you would have difficulty seeing the top and or bottom face.

For the construction, there are many options. The more expensive I would suggest would be carbon fiber (like in the fancy sports cars). Light weight to strength ratio, but pricey. Or you could frame out the cubes in aluminum and skin the cubes with thin sheets of plastic, wood, etc. I would strongly suggest hollow pieces as that would keep the weight down (close off only what will be seen). It will also help reduce friction between the pieces.

For the friction piece of the problem there is a material I worked with at a scene shop years back. I don't remember the name of it any more but it was a low friction plastic that we used to line tracks for motorized scenery. If you ask around plastic shops I'm sure you will find something similar or even better. Keep in mind you want to minimize the surface area where the pieces will be touching. Less are means less friction but also less strength.

You, basically, just took this from a simple, large scale project to a technological wonder! I think what you've proposed here is way beyond the means of someone on this forum. Perhaps, not because of the technology aspect, but certainly because of the financial aspect. This would cost a fortune! :lol:

- Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:55 pm 
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lonogod wrote:
You, basically, just took this from a simple, large scale project to a technological wonder! I think what you've proposed here is way beyond the means of someone on this forum. Perhaps, not because of the technology aspect, but certainly because of the financial aspect. This would cost a fortune! :lol:

You're probably right, but try not to be too harsh: the poor guy was only sharing in the vision: aim high and you never know, aim low and that's what you'll get. :wink:

EDIT: Aim vertical and it'll come right back down and stab you in the head. :lol:

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Last edited by KelvinS on Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Who was being harsh? What's the use of "smilies" if they don't convey the emotion of my post. :roll:

I was just pointing out that while others are proposing ways to simply make the size of the cube a reality, wronginthehead thinks up this million dollar, self-scrambling, self-turning project. :lol:

That's just hilarious to me. I'm certainly not criticizing the guy. :P

- Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:14 pm 
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I know, I'm sure you didn't mean to be harsh, and admittedly I did have a quiet chuckle to myself at the carbon fibre thing (do we have a chuckle smilie?), I was just saying there's nothing wrong with throwing some wacky ideas around to help inspire other (perhaps slightly more practical!) ideas...

Anyway, good luck to Jamo for the next apollo space mission, erm, I mean Rubik's scale-up project.

LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:04 pm 
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< http://www.uscomposites.com/carbonpage.html >

Well, I found a supplier for Carbon Fiber fabric (just add epoxy and you have solid CF). I also found a supplier of pre-manufactured CF parts. < http://dragonplate.com/ >

If this turns out to be infeasable for this cube, it may be usable for other applications.


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:46 pm 
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How to mount it:

- Balanced on a corner cubie... the weight of the construction (especially the core and centers) would have to somehow transfer onto that corner cubie, which it can't do unless the rest of the cubies are rigid. Unless you've got a pile of money, rigid usually means heavy. I believe this is a non-starter. The same thing goes with balancing it on an edge cubie.
- Balanced on a center cubie, one face parallel to the ground. The weight is easily and easily tranferred into the ground, meaning all corner and edge cubies could be made lightweight. You'd need a large ladder (or a mirror?) to see the top face. Not so good. Balance is also an issue. Hanging from a center cubie resolves the balance issue, but do you really want to be held responsible for squashing a toddler with a 9 foot Rubik's Cube?
- Balanced on two adjacent centers. (It could also be hung from chains or cables from two adjacent centers.) The connection between the two stands and the center cubies would have to be swivel-capable. Again, the weight is nicely carried, and the corner and edge cubies can be lightweight. You may still need a ladder to see the top two faces easily, but a smaller one this time. Balance is also an issue.
- I think this is the best idea. Build a 7 foot tall saw-horse sort of frame (a 9' cube has a 6.4' turning radius), with the center bar skewering two opposite faces. Again, the weight is nicely carried, allowing for lightweight edges and corners as well as solid centers. This stand makes center layer twists a little challenging, but I think it would be the most practical and most fun to play with. No ladder is required to see the other faces, as the whole thing could easily spin on the horizontal skewer.

The core has to be sturdy enough to put up with a bunch of weight hanging off it, and abuse from the puzzle solvers. I suggest steel. This would be the single most expensive piece. Figuring out how to weld bearings onto something like that would be a lot of fun, but probably not neccesary if the cubies are lightweight anyhow.

The centers have to be sturdy and solidly fixed to the core via some kind of pipe, aluminum being a good balance between lightweight and weight-bearing. The entire center cubies and the "inner sphere" of each edge and corner cubie (the part that glides under the centers) can be made out of wood. Wood is cheap and strong, but not the best in the friction department, so using it in place of metal or plastics may result in other problems later.

The edge and corner cubies can be constructed out of sturdy aluminum or plastic pole frames fixed to the "inner sphere" pieces, and then be completed with plastic sheeting. Filling each cubie with styrofoam would really firm things up.

I wonder what it would cost to build the whole thing out of plastic sheeting?

(And that's how I killed 45 minutes at work today.)

Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Well I think there are more than enough ideas here on the technical side. Meanwhile on the financial side perhaps you could ask Seven Towns for a small grant to support this project. It would be great PR for them, especially if you can build something more robust that would sit in some public park as a permanent attraction/plaything (and advertisement) for children...

You would also get a lot of publicity for yourself, which may lead to other things, so go for it!

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:40 pm 
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Could you have the metal tubing of the core protrude out from three adjacent centers like a tripod? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:22 pm 
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Wood definitely won't work unless you have some sort of way to remove friction. In my avatar, you can see my 2ft Rubik's cube (with my cat on it).
Even though each face can turn, I wouldn't call it fully functional. It requires about a minute or two just to turn one face a quarter turn just because of the massive weight and friction. Well multiply that by 91 and 1/8 (8 cubic ft vs. 729 cubic feet) and that's how much weight you'll have.

That said I sacrificed the "full" functionality of it and set up a ball bearing Lazy Susan type thing on the top face. The top face turns perfect now, but I added a large heavy piece of glass to it to make it into a table, and the extra weight from that makes it difficult to turn again.

Anyway, I would suggest something very light weight with little friction and some sort of ball bearing or repelling magnet type mechanism.

Best of luck though!

-d


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:31 pm 
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Why not make each cubie hollow? that seems like it would reduce a tremendous amount of friction, i would recommend fiberglass because it is flexible yet strong. Thats my 2 cents :D

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:45 pm 
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It would have to be hollow, but even still it would weigh a tremendous amount.

-d


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:53 pm 
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You'll need a hellovalotta silicone spray :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:52 pm 
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You can always do it from matches :D
http://community.guinnessworldrecords.c ... /7691.html
You just need to beat that tiny 4800 matches :P

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Simple, first build a giant rapid prototyping machine and get that to do all the work for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Alokin wrote:
You can always do it from matches :D
http://community.guinnessworldrecords.c ... /7691.html
You just need to beat that tiny 4800 matches :P


The Match Cube is a rather tiny cube:

http://www.helm.lu/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=10919&g2_navId=x3a12d0db

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Georges wrote:
Alokin wrote:
You can always do it from matches :D
http://community.guinnessworldrecords.c ... /7691.html
You just need to beat that tiny 4800 matches :P


The Match Cube is a rather tiny cube:

http://www.helm.lu/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=10919&g2_navId=x3a12d0db


Yeah but I meant, if he can't beat the largest cube record, he can always beat the matches cube one :D

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Alokin wrote:

Yeah but I meant, if he can't beat the largest cube record, he can always beat the matches cube one :D


Ah, I see.
In that case you are right, because Daniel (the builder of the Matches Cube) has used many more matches to finish the cube than the number needed. There were many uncountable crooked matches that had to be replaced by straight ones LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:25 am 
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lonogod wrote:
Who was being harsh? What's the use of "smilies" if they don't convey the emotion of my post. :roll:

I was just pointing out that while others are proposing ways to simply make the size of the cube a reality, wronginthehead thinks up this million dollar, self-scrambling, self-turning project. :lol:

That's just hilarious to me. I'm certainly not criticizing the guy. :P

- Billy


I'm SOOOO insulted you called my solution expensive! :lol: Besides, from a design standpoint, always go big and reign it in. Always.

I do feel to do this project right, you'll need to dump alot of cash into it. Even Sandy's suggestion of a steel core would be a huge expense, especially if you don't own a welder (now you're adding tool/rental costs). Not to mention the level of accuracy you'll need at this size using steel and/or aluminum over this kind of distance.

Even to just build a 9x9x9 box and paint it, 1/4 pine plywood sheets (at least around here) cost around 20 bucks. And you'll end up using about 2 3/4 sheets per side, so we'll estimate 3, * 6 * 20 is 360$. Plus the frame, fasteners, etc. And that's for non functional.

So lots more material, plus more time, plus overcoming friction......

Jared wrote:
Could you have the metal tubing of the core protrude out from three adjacent centers like a tripod? :?


That might work, but the center cap would either need to rotate around the pipe, or allow the edge pieces to rotate around the center cubie. You would need some bracing though. Anything over that distance is going to bend.

Weight and friction. Holding this project down. HA! :lol:

-Adam-

P.S. Don't forget to draft it ALL out first. Don't be crazy and just start building.

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The second ten million years, they were the worst too.
The third ten million years I didn't like at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Okay, I've planned out most of the basics of the project. I still have no clue where I'm going to get any of the stuff for it but I will use Sandy's "saw-horse" frame idea as it would be the easiest, sturdiest and probably the least expensive (Thanks for giving me something to grow on that is actually realistic [Because I'm totally going to be able to make it solve itself :roll: ]).

The cubies will me mostly hollow with some sort of frame structure inside of it (probably made of dowels) and I will need the steel core. the inside parts (that actually rub together) will be plated with some smooth plastic that I to forgot the name of and cant find it in my search history right now :x . The bolts that hold on the center cubies are causing me a bit of trouble though. And I won't start building till I have EVERYTHING planned (thats why I gave myself almost a Year and a half). Anyway, Thats what I've got right now Ill be up for suggestions until the day I build it.

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2x2x2 PB: 3.45 sec
3x3x3 PB: 19.63sec (Average is about 32 though...)
4x4x4 PB: 2:04.95
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My other ones are to slow for me to care about right now...


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:48 pm 
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I'm not sure if an idea like this has been mentioned yet, but this might help!
I was thinking about this a few months ago (with no intention of building it :D ), and I came up with a fairly simple idea to overcome friction...
Wheels!
If you have small wheels on the edges (where they touch the centers) and each side of the centers it should solve the friction and weight problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:54 am 
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Thanks Steveo! I might try to do the wheels but i see the problem being how would i put them in the puzzle? I mean I really want to do wheels but how? Anyone got suggestions for how to do that?

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2x2x2 PB: 3.45 sec
3x3x3 PB: 19.63sec (Average is about 32 though...)
4x4x4 PB: 2:04.95
5x5x5 PB 4:25.80
My other ones are to slow for me to care about right now...


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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:06 pm 
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You would have to have the shaft holding the wheel on the inside of the piece, with a hole in the piece so the wheel could stick out.

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:49 pm 
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Wheels sticking outside of each centre piece might actually be a good way to allow people to turn the layers.

EDIT: on second thoughts, scratch that - it would look naff, and it would probably be easier to turn the layers normally anyway. :roll:

But I DO like the idea suggested above that the cube should be positioned corner down, supported by 3 legs that extend from the core at right angles, like a tripod running through the centre pieces of the lower 3 faces.

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 Post subject: Re: Worlds largest rubiks cube version 2.0?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Instead of wheels, bearings of some type might be possible.

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