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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:13 pm 
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SteveRider, call the yellow face U, the red F and the green R. First, solve the red piece using (UR FR UF FR)x2 (I assume you already know this). Then move the yellow-green edge to the FR position. Use ((UR UF)x3 FR)x3. The last FR is actually not required, but it's easier to write it like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:32 pm 
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SteveRider wrote:
Hello
I'm wondering if anyone has a quick fix to this very annoying helicopter cube problem
Image
F = red, U = yellow, R = green.
A double swap can be done by moving two edges back and forth 3 times, so we set up a double swap with UR FR UR, then do the double swap (FR FU)*3, then undo the setups with UR FR UR. 12 moves total. The same trick works with the dodeca helicopter 1.4.1 too.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:45 pm 
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Thanks guys
That wasn't quite as quick of a fix I hoped someone would have
Either way though, I did another few solves and got my first record(movecount)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Image

Next time I get a chance to go on my bro's pc, I'm gonna try to at least tie this so I can make it official


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Ethan actually has you beat by 2 moves, although he did it today.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:27 am 
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Haha it's just my luck that someone happens to decide to solve that puzzle the same day I get my first record. I noticed that every solve has been an even amount of moves, with the exception of the 501 move scramble, so I guess the next step is 40.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:32 am 
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I gave 1.2.2 a go today...

Image

No matter what i tried i couldnt get it past here :x I ended up just closing it and then stuffed around with a CAD program for a bit :P

Any tips as to how to do the last couple of sides?

thanks,
-Mark- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:16 pm 
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I solve it by piece type, although it can lead to an annoying parity at the end.

1. edges, intuitive
2. centers, (1,1) commutators
3. corners, (4,1) commutators plus single set-up moves to solve for orientation at the same time as permutation
4. You have a 2/3 chance of winding up with parity which in this method means a twisted corner. To fix it, I just twist it to be correct and then proceed solving what I've messed up in the same order of pieces as I did before. Be sure to only use commutators (or other algs which preserve the twist parity) or else you could wind up with the parity again.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
I solve it by piece type, although it can lead to an annoying parity at the end.

1. edges, intuitive
2. centers, (1,1) commutators
3. corners, (4,1) commutators plus single set-up moves to solve for orientation at the same time as permutation
4. You have a 2/3 chance of winding up with parity which in this method means a twisted corner. To fix it, I just twist it to be correct and then proceed solving what I've messed up in the same order of pieces as I did before. Be sure to only use commutators (or other algs which preserve the twist parity) or else you could wind up with the parity again.


I´ve always wondered what is meant by those (x,y) commutators. If they´re mentioned in a solution outline, I can´t figure it out. Can you explain this?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:28 pm 
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(x,y) means a commutator where the first part is x moves long and the second part is y moves long. For instance, the simple alg R U R' U' would be (1,1). Whereas something like (F R U) D (U' R' F') D' would be (3,1). Does that explain it or not? Were you asking about commutators in general or just the (x,y) notation?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:40 pm 
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Yes, this does explain it, thanks.

But I know what is meant by commutator. A series of moves which leads to a certain configuration, then a (couple of) setup move(s), and then undo the series of moves again.
Like twisting corners on a 3x3: (F D2 F' R' D2 R) U (R' D2 R F D2 F) U', which turns two corners.
(F D2 F' R' D2 R) makes one corner twist, U swaps it with another corner, and (F D2 F' R' D2 R) is reversed again, turning the second corner in the opposite direction of the first.

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Negyvenháromtrillió-kétszázötvenkétbilliárd-hárombillió-kétszázhetvennégymiliárd-négyszáznyolcvankilencmillió-nyolcszázötvenhatezer :wink: )


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:47 pm 
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2.3.2

Icosa edge turner, cousin of 1.4.5, with similar nutty/tricky setups needed to solve the tippies. Solved in 1692 moves as follows:

Corners -- intuitive, orient the last few in pairs if necessary
Centers -- cycle with (ABA, C) commutators
Fat tippies -- cycle with (ABA, C) commutators
Thin tippies -- cycle with (ABA, C) commutators
Edges -- cycle pure with (ABA, CDC) commutators


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:22 am 
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Two things

Just wondering if anyone has any tips on the centers of 3.2.6. I really don't know why I'm having so much trouble with this, but I can't get it.

Also, I was wondering if anyone else has experimented in solving the last layer of the helicopter cube centers first. I do this on 1.4.1, but for whatever reason I can't seem to get it as easily on the heli cube.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:26 am 
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3.2.6: square centers or triangular ones? I assume the triangular ones, and if so, doug gave me an alg somewhere in this thread.

helicopter cube: I'm trying it out now.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:29 am 
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Yea I meant the triangular ones. I can usually get within three or four.

One thing I realized with regards to the heli cube is that the typical parity problem that I face (being off by two corners) is the same case as the one I posted here a few days ago, which I find to be pretty interesting.

Edit:
I found out that if I cut my connection right before I submit, I can get a certificate to email to him so my records can get counted!

Image :)


Last edited by SteveRider on Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:38 am 
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Yeah, the corners last thing works okay, but not great.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:45 am 
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I do have to agree. It's much harder to cycle around to fix a misorientation on on the heli cube than on 1.4.1. I still cannot believe I managed to get that solve though, it was unreal (using centers last.)


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:54 am 
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SteveRider wrote:
Also, I was wondering if anyone else has experimented in solving the last layer of the helicopter cube centers first. I do this on 1.4.1, but for whatever reason I can't seem to get it as easily on the heli cube.


I solve centers first every time on the last layer. The only video I got solving it was here. I don't think I've ever solved it corners first. I'll try that on my next solve.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:55 pm 
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8-)

2.1.1 ** Daniel Devitt :scrambled: 02:02:14 :arrow: :solved: 24/06/09
2.1.2 ** Daniel Devitt :scrambled: 01:33:04 :arrow: :solved: 29/06/09
2.1.3 ** Daniel Devitt :scrambled: 01:34:56 :arrow: :solved: 30/06/09

Nice speedy solves, and challenging targets for Matt when he gets around to these, especially for 2.1.2. These particular puzzles have slightly weird setups that take some getting used to (like 1.2.3-1.2.5), so I'd say whichever one you solve first can be considered a practice run for the others.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:07 pm 
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Thanks!

Yeah, I'd say that's definitely that whichever one you solve first can be considered a practice run for the others. That's probably why I took an extra half hour on the first one, even though it's the easiest. 2.1.3 should have been slightly faster than 2.1.2, but since the edges only take a couple minutes and recognition is suckier on 2.1.3, it took about the same. I might resolve 2.1.1 later, but probably only if someone beats my current time.

Right now, I'm trying to get just a few more puzzles on the board so I can say I've done over 2/3 of them (126 puts me over).

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:30 am 
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Today I worked on 1.4.5. The time was over 4 hours and I had only taken one short brake. I accidently pushed clear instead of undo. :evil: :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:01 am 
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Julian wrote:
SteveRider wrote:
Hello
I'm wondering if anyone has a quick fix to this very annoying helicopter cube problem
[image]
A double swap can be done by moving two edges back and forth 3 times, so we set up a double swap with UR FR UR, then do the double swap (FR FU)*3, then undo the setups with UR FR UR. 12 moves total. The same trick works with the dodeca helicopter 1.4.1 too.


On a real helicopter cube that can be done in just 7 moves.

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 Post subject: Request for Gelatinbrain (quick)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:34 am 
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Danny Devitt wrote:
Today I worked on 1.4.5. The time was over 4 hours and I had only taken one short brake. I accidently pushed clear instead of undo. :evil: :cry:
:( That happened to me with 4.3.4, 11 pieces from the end after 4+ hours. "Noooooooooooooooooooooo" I didn't visit Gelatinbrain much for a while after that, due to the constant nervous strain of having to be extra careful with the mouse whenever moving across the lower pieces of the display, or clicking Undo. That's why I put so few solves on the board early this year. I'm relieved that 1.4.6, 3.3.6 and 4.7.2 are the only very long solves I have left.

Gelatinbrain, please can you add a warning message when we click on Clear or Scramble? It would help save us major frustration in the event of a misclick. Many thanks.

(In case anyone is wondering, I requested this a long time ago by email but I don't know if GB has much chance to read GB website emails; I'm hoping to catch his eye if he visits here.)

[Edit: I originally said "Undo or Clear" in red above, which of course wasn't what I meant!]


Last edited by Julian on Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:48 am 
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(Re helicopter cube double triangle swap URF<->FLU, UBR<->RFU -- diagram near top of page)

TomZ wrote:
On a real helicopter cube that can be done in just 7 moves.
Thanks, that's interesting to know. I can't visualize the shape-changing moves, so I'm salivating for a real helicopter cube to figure things like this out. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:17 am 
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The algorithm for that double 2-swap is nearly identical for the 'regular' double 2-swap. Basically it is FRs (FU FR)*2 FU FRs, where s denotes a shifting move.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Well speaking of the helicopter cube, I saw that Ethan Rosen stole the only record I had with 38 moves. There's no chance I'll ever be able to beat this, so I now consider it my duty to beat as many of his records as possible! If you're reading this, I'm coming for you, starting right now!


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Hi guys,

On the topic of the helicopter cube, does anyone have a quick fix for this:

Attachment:
helicube.gif
helicube.gif [ 15.29 KiB | Viewed 1888 times ]


I just started trying to solve it using 1st layer centers, 1st layer corners, all other centers, last corners. I cant seem to move the corners into their correct places without disturbing the other centers.

-Mark- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:30 pm 
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how do you even switch corners without messing up the faces?

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:36 pm 
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Thats what im asking :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:41 pm 
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I don't know how to even move corners without messing up the faces though.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:00 am 
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This is how I would do it. You'll have to rotate the orange face to be the F face.

First switch the corners:

(FR UR UF FR UF UR FR) (UF UR UF UR UF UR)

Second, rotate them:

(UF UL UR UB UL UR)*2

That should do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:44 pm 
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fusion wrote:
First switch the corners:

(FR UR UF FR UF UR FR) (UF UR UF UR UF UR)

Second, rotate them:

(UF UL UR UB UL UR)*2


That worked great! thanks :)

I dont think today is my lucky virtual cubing day -- First I solved the rex cube in 1 second under the top time, and second, i solved the 6 colour alexander star in 5 seconds over the required time for the highscores. :x Oh well :P

-Mark- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:57 pm 
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Julian wrote:
8-)

2.1.1 ** Daniel Devitt :scrambled: 02:02:14 :arrow: :solved: 24/06/09
2.1.2 ** Daniel Devitt :scrambled: 01:33:04 :arrow: :solved: 29/06/09
2.1.3 ** Daniel Devitt :scrambled: 01:34:56 :arrow: :solved: 30/06/09

Nice speedy solves, and challenging targets for Matt when he gets around to these, especially for 2.1.2. These particular puzzles have slightly weird setups that take some getting used to (like 1.2.3-1.2.5), so I'd say whichever one you solve first can be considered a practice run for the others.


Oh wow, did I really leave that much of a mark with the few puzzles I've solved. Lol thanks for the praise of a mention and the challenge. I am really really busy these days, but I'm still checking in every once in a while. I have been devoting ALL of my solving time to this beast recently. I even accidentally erased about half of my work roughly halfway through and so have had to play catch up back to where I was. I promise that I'll come back to gelatin brain once I'm done and wipe all of your records off the board!!! :twisted:

Ok, so maybe not all of them. I'm probably not going to go back to ones I've already done, but I'll be sure to get near the top of any that I haven't done yet. Is that enough? :wink: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:04 pm 
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Have you even solved the 3x3x3x3 yet? I tried once (quite a while ago though) and failed miserably.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:53 pm 
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Need your help again guys :lol:

Attachment:
File comment: FTO
Image1.gif
Image1.gif [ 16.44 KiB | Viewed 1887 times ]


I need a swap for those 2 pieces on the FTO

-Mark- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Look at grigr's guide here. Just use 2 setup moves and the face swapping algorithm he gives.

ps. I feel so smart for able to answer a question in this thread! :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:09 am 
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Door wrote:
Need your help again guys :lol:

Attachment:
Image1.gif


I need a swap for those 2 pieces on the FTO

-Mark- :)


You just cycle two blues and the one green until they are solved. It may require some flipping of the tips though.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:50 pm 
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I solved the FTO finally... after a 3 hour break :lol:

I solved it the same way as i solved the rex cube/fat dino cube:

1. Solve the edge pieces like a dino cube.
2. Pair up two triangle bits and put them into their place.
3. Pair up the two triangle bits and corner that go between the two triangles in step 2.
4. Repeat step 2 and 3 for other corners until there is only 3 corners left.
5. Match up corners and triangles with setup moves, and flip them so they can be moved back in their place still adjacent. Only step that uses an algorithm(For Rex cube)
6. Fix 2 swapped triangles with an algorithm(FTO only)

-Mark- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:34 am 
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Door wrote:
I solved the FTO finally... after a 3 hour break :lol:

I solved it the same way as i solved the rex cube/fat dino cube:

1. Solve the edge pieces like a dino cube.
2. Pair up two triangle bits and put them into their place.
3. Pair up the two triangle bits and corner that go between the two triangles in step 2.
4. Repeat step 2 and 3 for other corners until there is only 3 corners left.
5. Match up corners and triangles with setup moves, and flip them so they can be moved back in their place still adjacent. Only step that uses an algorithm(For Rex cube)
6. Fix 2 swapped triangles with an algorithm(FTO only)

-Mark- :)

What was your movecount?

Door wrote:
Hi guys,

On the topic of the helicopter cube, does anyone have a quick fix for this:

Attachment:
helicube.gif


I just started trying to solve it using 1st layer centers, 1st layer corners, all other centers, last corners. I cant seem to move the corners into their correct places without disturbing the other centers.

-Mark- :)

With orange on top and corners on UF
UF UB [FR UF UR (FR UF)x3 UR UF FR] UR UF UB

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Last edited by Daedalus on Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:24 am 
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I've started doing solves in UMC and GB. I did run into a bit of an issue that I haven't figured out yet with GB 1.2.1.

I can't seem to get these two pieces rotated into their correct positions. I'll keep on trying, but any help is appreciated.


edit: huh. Fussing with it seems to have solved the issue. I'm not sure what I did, but I got it done.


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:32 am 
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Rotate one of the pieces all around the blue face and swap it with the other one, then undo rotation moves, then undo swapping move. Depending on how you do this, a final 3-cycle may also be necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:13 am 
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I had to laugh at this...

Rex cube Rankings earlier:

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When i got my time 1 second under Michael, i was so disappointed, but look what i just did... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:22 pm 
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good to see nothing has moved on in the last 2 months I've been away, but here I am ready to break 100!


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:51 am 
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Hey guys

Today I attempted the Star-minx and Failed miserably :lol:

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I solved the edges like a Pyra Crystal.

I just couldn't figure out how to move the triangles and/or centers around without stuffing up other pieces. :P

Would any Pentultimate algos be useful for this? Or any other puzzles for that matter?

-Mark- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:01 am 
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wouldn't you solve it like a megaminx/pyra crystal.
Solve edges like a pyracrystal on one face and put in the triangular corner pieces, do this layer by layer, and then you may need new algorithms for the last layer

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:06 am 
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I cant quite figure out how to put in the triangle pieces though :(

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:10 am 
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It´s been a long while since I solved this one, so I might not be very specific.
Indeed, the edges are solved like a pyraminx crystal first.
Next I did the centers like pentultimate centers.
And next I found an algorithm which swaps 3 triangle pieces, and needs a lot of setup moves. But I can´t seen to remember the exact alg...

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:27 am 
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I also had a question about the Star-minx. I posted this over in ALEH'S STARMINX (V1) thread but I think this is a better place for it.

The puzzle can be played with here.

As this puzzle has no 3 color corner pieces and the centers can move it appears to have 2 solved states, the initial state and its mirror image.

Now the questions in order of difficulty: (assuming the answer to the first question is yes)
(1) Can anyone prove that?
(2) Would it be possible to make a video going from one state to the other?
(3) Any idea how many moves are required to get from one state to the other?

Thanks,
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:20 pm 
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What Sjoerd said. Pyraminx crystal edges ----> Pentultimate centers ----> tricky 3 cycle slice set up moves ----> win

It has not to do with no Megaminx :lol:

As for the math/proof behind the puzzle? I have no idea, I'm pretty mediocre when it comes to that sort of thing.


Last edited by Percy on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:01 pm 
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I can't believe I never realised how easy 5.2.6 was, I must have just missed it. Regardless, I am now an OFFICIAL member of the 100 club. :solved:

It feels good 8-)

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101 now, 1.3.5 = easy


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 Post subject: Re: Gelatin Brain's Applet Solutions Discussion Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:07 am 
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I'm up to 130 puzzles now and a total of 200 records (120+80). This is fun :)

I got an 8:06 gigaminx solve on the offline .exe version. I changed the orange because I was having trouble seeing it, and it helped a lot. For some reason the offline version also seems to do moves and rotations a little faster, so if you are just trying to get fast times (and don't care about whether they register or not) it is worth trying.

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