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 Post subject: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:00 pm 
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I was wondering how other people solve the 3x3x3...

Please state what pieces you solve in what order (rather than Friedrich, Roux, etc., which means nothing to me!).

Also, how long does it take you to complete each step, to get some idea which is the fastest method?

For me, I've always solved the 3x3x3 by intuition (no training) in the following order:

1. Complete white layer: edges and corners in any order (whichever bits I find first!): 15-20s
2. All 4 yellow corners, by using self-taught algorithms to cycle these with one white corner: 20-30s
3. 3 yellow edge pieces (not the last one), by displacing one white edge piece: 15-20s
4. Last yellow edge piece together with displaced white edge piece: 5-10s
5. Middle layer (excluding parity): 10-15s
6. Remove any parity in middle layer with another self-taught algorithm: 0-10s

Total time: 65-100s (80s average)

Slow, I know, but that's why I'm curious to hear how other people do it... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:47 pm 
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1. Solve all edges by doing the "white cross" and then using FR'F'R and variants: probably around 1 minute
2. Solve all corners using U R U' L' U R' U L and mirror: around 1-1.5 minutes

Total time normally 2-2.5 minutes.

Definitely a slow method. Not for speedcubing. But I believe it has a very low move count. It's also very easy. This is the Ultimate Solution method popularised by Philip Marhsall.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:30 am 
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*grabs cube, scrambles and note how I solve*

First make the white cross on white and align with the centerpieces of the F B L and R layer.

Use F2L to match up bottom white piece and edgepiece that comes on top of that to finish first two layers.

Create yellow filled up top using 2 look OLL (so sune, anti sune headlights, those algorithms)

Align headlights with its face color, put those in the back if other corners are incorrect and do: R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 and match up the corners. If no headlights I do the same thing, it will create them.

Then I either use an H or Z perm or when I have a whole top layer face solved, I put that in the back and rotate the top edge pieces using F2 U (or U', depending) R' L F2 R L' U (or U', depending) F2


By far not the fastest way, but it is the one way I know how. My PB is in the 48sec region. Official fastest WCA time is 51.66. It gets the job done *chuckle*


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:40 am 
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Kattenvriendin wrote:
My PB is in the 48sec region.
Then you need to update your sig. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:09 am 
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Ah shoot.. you're right.

I come here more for the various beautiful twisties than the speedsolving part. :mrgreen: *goes edit*


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:41 am 
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The official Tony Fisher method-

1. Complete red side in correct positions.
2. Orientate bottom corners (my own worked out algorithms).
3. Position bottom corners (my own worked out algorithms).
4. Put an opposite pair of edges into bottom (orange) side correctly orientated (intuitive).
5. Put the remaining opposite pair of edges into bottom (orange) side correctly orientated (intuitive).
6. Position middle edges (intuitive).
7. Orientate 2 middle edges. Repeat if >2 wrong) (my own worked out algorithms).

Haven't a clue about times of each stage (how would I even time that?)
Best - 28sec.
Mean (not competition style) average when practising - around 45 sec.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:58 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
The official Tony Fisher method-

1. Complete red side in correct positions.
2. Orientate bottom corners (my own worked out algorithms).
3. Position bottom corners (my own worked out algorithms).
4. Put an opposite pair of edges into bottom (orange) side correctly orientated (intuitive).
5. Put the remaining opposite pair of edges into bottom (orange) side correctly orientated (intuitive).
6. Position middle edges (intuitive).
7. Orientate 2 middle edges. Repeat if >2 wrong) (my own worked out algorithms).

Haven't a clue about times of each stage (how would I even time that?)
Best - 28sec.
Mean (not competition style) average when practising - around 45 sec.

Very similar to my own method above, but starting with the red side seems to be a lot faster than starting with white. I'll give it a go! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:23 am 
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That is because the red is heavier than the white, so the reds seem to drop into place automagically *giggle* :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:47 am 
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i use speedcuber's method to solve the cube (Fridrich) my best time is 14s and the average is around 22

But I have just learn a new beginner method, where you only need to learn this very hard algorithm: R U R' U'
It is a sort of layer by layer method, but still it is very easy to remember for beginners. With this I can solve the cube within 40-50s
And the best in it, that it can be used for many other puzzles as well. (like Megaminx)

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:53 am 
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I use a basic Fridrich method (with two look OLL, cross on top, things like that).

1) Solve the white cross on the top face (0.5-1.5 seconds).
2) F2L (3.5-5 seconds).
3) OLL (in two stages, first make a cross on the yellow side, and then orientate the corners correctly) (1.5-3 seconds).
4) PLL (1-2 seconds).

I usually average around 10.5 seconds.

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3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:24 pm 
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What are F2L, OLL and PLL? I don't have a clue as I've always solved by my own (inefficient) method, but I would like to learn faster methods. Is there a clear reference to explain these algorithms, preferably in the form of a flow chart?

Or would someone be prepared to create such a flowchart? Perhaps you, Luke? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:32 pm 
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F2L is a term generally used to mean putting in the bottom corner and middle edge at the same time.
OLL means to orient the last layer (making the top color of all pieces in the last layer yellow, assuming you solve with white on bottom)
PLL means to permute the last layer (putting each piece of the last layer in its correct place)

Check out http://www.badmephisto.com/ for a list of algorithms, I suggest using 2 look OLL and PLL, as it vastly reduces the number of algorithms to learn (15 instead of 78), as it is designed to do the OLL and PLL in two steps each.

This is the method i use, and the place i learnt it from. I'm not really a speedcuber though, my pb is around 55sec.

Edit: http://www.badmephisto.com/2LookOLL.pdf 2 look OLL
http://www.badmephisto.com/2LookPLL.pdf 2 look PLL


Last edited by Tor S on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:33 pm 
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F2L stands for First Two Layers. Basically it's the paring up of corners with a specific sticker colour (in my case, corners with white stickers, as I start by making a cross on the white face) with the according equatorial edge piece. For most people F2L is intuitive, however there are algorithms based methods of doing it.

OLL stands for 'Orientate Last Layer'. As you might have been able to guess, this stage is about orientating the last layer. There are many tutorials and algorithms all over the web, but I don't bother with them. I use two look OLL, which consists of two steps. Step one is to orientate the edges (so that the top side results in a cross), and the orientate the corners in the second step. This method only uses about nine algorithms or so, compared to full OLL which has 57 algorithms.

PLL stands for 'Permute Last Layer'. There are 21 algorithms for full PLL, and I would recommend CubeWhiz as a source for PLL algorithms.

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3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:19 pm 
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KelvinS wrote:
What are F2L, OLL and PLL? I don't have a clue as I've always solved by my own (inefficient) method, but I would like to learn faster methods. Is there a clear reference to explain these algorithms, preferably in the form of a flow chart?

Or would someone be prepared to create such a flowchart? Perhaps you, Luke? :wink:

As a non speedcuber like you I looked into some of this. I could quickly see that it would take an enormous amount of practise to get anywhere at all. Because you are putting two pieces in together you have to first find both, decide what positions they are in before deciding on the move required to put them in place. The end result of solving a cube in under 20 seconds just didn't seem worth it to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:38 pm 
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I would have to disagree with Tony is terms of how much work it is. It's not a matter of learning F2L algorithms to the point where you know the most efficient algorithms, rather an intuitive extension of the standard Beginner's method. The only thing I learnt was what F2L was, no algorithms or anything. It is not a quick thing to learn intuitively, but at the same time it doesn't take a great deal of effort to learn it.

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3x3x3 single: 5.73 seconds.
3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

Buy the Curvy Copter Skewb, NovaMinx, and more here!


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:51 pm 
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1. White or yellow cross (on bottom) and I usually find my first two pieces for F2L during inspection.

2. Intuitive F2L with a few tricks as well as last layer edge control. (I never have to start the last layer with no edges oriented.)

3. Full 1-look OLL with a little bit of COLL (Corner Orient Last Layer. If only corners need to be oriented then it also permutes the corners.)

4. Full PLL with multiple algs for different angles.

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PBs:single/Ao5/Ao12
3x3: 4.76/8.13/8.80
pyraminx: 0.89/1.87/2.19
4x4:36.50/45.59
5x5: 1:21.50/1:41.50
7x7: 4:10.50


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:38 pm 
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1. White layer (all 8 cubies in no particular order)
2. Equator (for higher order cubes, equator gets done later)
3. Position last layer corners
4. Orientate last layer corners
5. Position last layer edges
6. Orientate last layer edges

Total time 45 seconds in 1981, now I am happy to still remember it (90 seconds on a good day).


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:00 pm 
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I don't know all the algorithms. At all. I think I know nine. I don't intend to learn them all either, some are way difficult. I started off with the beginner's method which is easy enough, and then you find your way around to what is easiest for YOU to do. I didn't look at just one instruction video, instead I looked at a bundle and constructed my own "how to solve" way from that.

Also.. one algorithm does not a solution make.

There are many available for the same situation, and one of those may be easier for you than the "default" one.

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OLL

Look for number OLL 24, known as the chameleon. r U R' U' r' F R F' is the one most common to use. However.. I don't like the way that runs in my fingers, so I tried them all in the list, and I ended up with (y x) D' R' U R D R' U' R x'

Click that blue text and it'll open a new screen with a cube on which you can click play and see what the algorithm does.


We don't all have to be sub 20 or sub 30 or subwhatever, as long as we have fun doing whatever we do to solve it. And it is definitely fun if you solve the cube JUST a tad different because even more experienced cubers will go "huh wha? Do that again!". :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Tony, how do you place the orange edges in your method. It is kind of like Waterman. Luke, how are you so fast? I am about same times except for f2l. I am slow at f2l.

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PB:
2x2: 5.99
3x3: 23.80
4x4: 3:12.xx
Pyraminx: 20.00
Wish list:
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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:51 pm 
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TheNextFeliks wrote:
Tony, how do you place the orange edges in your method. It is kind of like Waterman. Luke, how are you so fast? I am about same times except for f2l. I am slow at f2l.

Please excuse my notation. With reds on top I do R2, D2. This puts a row of three reds on the bottom beneath the other six reds. This frees up the R face / row and middle row. Using these two rows I can intuitively put a pair of orange edges into place.
I showed it in this video.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:11 pm 
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Quote:
But I have just learn a new beginner method, where you only need to learn this very hard algorithm: R U R' U'
It is a sort of layer by layer method, but still it is very easy to remember for beginners. With this I can solve the cube within 40-50s
And the best in it, that it can be used for many other puzzles as well. (like Megaminx)

This is basically the backbone of the Ultimate Solution method. I love it because it's so adaptable to pretty much any other puzzle.

Quote:
Haven't a clue about times of each stage (how would I even time that?)

Easy. Video yourself solving, and then play back the video noting the times of each stage. If you want to get better times, play the video at double speed. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:20 pm 
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rline wrote:
Quote:
Haven't a clue about times of each stage (how would I even time that?)

Easy. Video yourself solving, and then play back the video noting the times of each stage. :)

Actually I tend to just glance over at the clock after each step, to see if I'm still on track. But then maybe that's why I'm so slow. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:26 pm 
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rline wrote:
Quote:
Haven't a clue about times of each stage (how would I even time that?)

Easy. Video yourself solving, and then play back the video noting the times of each stage. If you want to get better times, play the video at double speed. :)

Yes I guess I should have worded it differently. I meant without an awful lot of videoing and playing back. Time better spent practising I would have thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Or you could always ask your personal coach/trainer/wife to do the timing. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Tony, I watched your video. I had a little trouble following but I could figure it out. I found an algorithm to do one edge. Slot would be DR. Piece to solve should be FL or BL. Turn right toward the piece. Middle slice away. Turn right twice. Put piece in and turn right back in place. Basically, for FL the algorithm is R E' R2 E' R. BL is R' E R2 E R'.

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PB:
2x2: 5.99
3x3: 23.80
4x4: 3:12.xx
Pyraminx: 20.00
Wish list:
5x5
Square-1


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:50 pm 
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TheNextFeliks wrote:
Tony, I watched your video. I had a little trouble following but I could figure it out. I found an algorithm to do one edge. Slot would be DR. Piece to solve should be FL or BL. Turn right toward the piece. Middle slice away. Turn right twice. Put piece in and turn right back in place. Basically, for FL the algorithm is R E' R2 E' R. BL is R' E R2 E R'.

Sorry I don't really get what you are telling me. Although there are often repeated moves there are no algorithms used as such in this process of inserting pairs of edges. If I made the video again the moves might well be different. I am simply manipulating the edge pair into positions for insertion before doing so.

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Last edited by Tony Fisher on Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Method one (my own algorithms from Helm G, Der Zauberwürfel, 1983)

1. edges of first layer (beginning with orange is preferred)
2. corners of first layer
3. edges of second layer
4. corners of last layer, position then orient
5. edges of last layer, position then orient

Method two, based on Frey/Singmaster

1. First layer (edges-corners), save the last corner
2. three edges of the second layer
3. turn the cube upside down
4. edges of the last layer one by one, the last one together with the remaining one of the second layer
5. remaining five corners (4 last layer - 1 first layer) positioning, then orientation

for both methods: average time one minute, best time 40 seconds. That's all I want for solving my 3x3x3 cubes

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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:06 am 
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I use Philip Marshall's so-called "Ultimate Solution":
1) make a cross on layer 1
2) turn it over, solve 3 of the 4 equatorial edges
3) use the last equatorial edge as a "working corner" to orient the top face edges
4) solve top face edges (which also automatically solves the last equatorial edge)
5) use the 3-corner commutator (R'U'LU RU'L'U) to solve the top 4 corners
6) turn the cube over, use the same commutator to solve 1 of the last 4 corners, then use conjugation (if necessary) and the same commutator again to solve the last 3 corners in one go.

It's not the most efficient method in terms of speed, but I only have to memorize a single algorithm to do it -- the 3 corner commutator. I like that, 'cos my memory is rather poor. Plus, adaptations of this method can be used to solve just about any twisty puzzle (the 3-corner commutator can be easily transformed into a 3-edge commutator by substituting R/R' with middle slice turns, for example, and on bigger cubes substituting both R and L with middle slice turns gives you face-center commutators, etc., and all with analogous orientation shifts of the cycled pieces - so it's quite a flexible formula that's very easy to predict in terms of what it will do). That's even better for me, since I don't like memorizing stuff. It's almost a one-algo-solves-all deal, except for the occasional case where one or two other algos are needed for non-commutator stuff (like fixing parities on even cubes).


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 Post subject: Re: Personal methods to solve a 3x3x3
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:16 am 
If you are looking to learn another faster method, I have a full detailed tutorial system that I personally find extremely easy for beginners not just to learn from, but to navigate their way through. It's sort of a guided tour, and there are also links to more advanced tutorials once you've got the beginners one down. If you are interested in learning Fridrich, please feel free to use this tutorial.

My average is 17 seconds and my personal best is 12.06 seconds =)

I hope this helps.

here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIDM2ReXM1A&feature=plcp


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