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flaakinator

Post subject: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:47 pm

Are there any websites or is anyone working on a web site that would be similiar to bigcubes.com which would talk about solving the 6x6x6 and 7x7x7, I've already solved both, but it is the centers that took me forever, and i was wondering if they would have better ways.
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Danny Devitt

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:02 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:51 am Location: Malibu, California

vcubes is working on solution pages
_________________ I am taking a break from the forum. You can reach me by PM if needed.


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numegil

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:35 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:26 am Location: Saratoga, CA

Fair enough, but for the time being, what do you think is the most efficient way to solve centers on a 7x7x7 (and 6x6x6)? At first I have just been building straight (1x5) lines and putting them together, but this feels rather slow and inefficient. Lately, I've tried another method, but I haven't done it enough yet to see if its better. I got this idea from the bigcubes.com explanation of centers on a 5x5. I made a 1x3 including the center first:
00000 00000 00100 00100 00100
From there, I built a 2x3 section in the other layers and inserted it:
00000 00000 11100 11100 11100
And another 2x3 block to finish off the 5x3 section:
00000 00000 11111 11111 11111
Then I finished the center in whatever way seemed best, usually 1x5 lines. Any suggestions or more efficient ideas? Also, is there any more efficient way to do more than one piece at time during the last 2 centers? I use a commutatorlike alg right now to swap 2 centers at a time, but its also rather slow.
_________________ 3x3 Average: 20.78
5x5 Single: 2:34.xx
3x3 BLD: 2:15.88
Nothing else matters...


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Rubiksguy

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:29 am 

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 10:13 pm

I learned a center swapper that i use for my variation of cage method that allows me to swap more than 2 centers at a time as long as they follow certain rules. The best part is that the algorithm is about 810 turns, some of those are just setting up the centers for swapping, so they can be dropped out if the centers are already set up. For an example, I can easily place a group like this on the 7x7
00011 00011 00011 00011 00011
placing ten centers, and if the group that I swap them with has the same set up, I can solve as many as 20 centers (not a typo)at a time on the 7x7x7. I learned the swapper at the Berkeley Spring 08 competition from somebody named Mike, i believe. Forgot exactly. Sorry.
If you want me to show how this works, skype me at: rubiksguy. Or if I have enough requests, I could post a youtube video
Jameson
_________________ PB's 2x2: 8.93 (official) (1.98 lucky) 3x3: 13.5 sec (11.xx lucky) 4x4: 1:39.55 5x5: 2:00.19 (new) 6x6: 5:09.79 7x7: 6:36.xx 3x3 BLD: 7:38.18 (at Nationals) XBOX Live: L00K A DUCK 0s are zeros


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takrl

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:37 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:27 am Location: Germany

flaakinator wrote: I've already solved both, but it is the centers that took me forever, and i was wondering if they would have better ways. As I posted here before, I found a mirrored older version of the vcube site which actually has a solutions page. For the centers, see here: http://www.rxdeath.com/vc/solution/centers.htmlIt may be worth printing out, who knows how long it'll be there. Hope this helps Takrl


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perfredlund

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:47 am 

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am Location: Norway

Hi Commutators are not all that slow, just practice them. 8 turns to solve 2 or more centers. In less than 3 secs. If you take longer you have to work on your wrist action. Most center commutators are not "fingertrickable" You should also work more towards a hybrid, semiintuitive center solving approach i guess. Use commutators where you have large blocks or singular centers to deal with. Especially on the last 2 faces.  Per
_________________ "Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans" John Lennon, Beautiful Boy


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qqwref

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm Location: NY, USA

For 7x7x7 center solving, I use 1x5 rows nearly exclusively. Sometimes I make 2x5 blocks if it's easy to set up. For the last two centers, I start by solving the leftmost three rows: 11100 11100 11100 11100 11100 You always have enough freedom of movement to do this. In fact you have enough freedom to now make a fourth row every time: 11110 11110 11110 11110 11110 For the last row, all you can do is get the Tcenter and the two Xcenters (not the two oblique ones). So this means that you can always end up with at least this: 11111 11110 11111 11110 11111 The last two (or fewer!) centers can be done with Niklastype commutators, which are quite fast indeed. The same kind of thing works for bigger cubes, but the best you can get with this technique changes a bit depending on the cube's size. For example on a 9x9, using this technique, the best you can do without any commutators is 1111111 1111110 1111100 1111111 1111100 1111110 1111111
_________________ My official times My youtube Puzzle Solving Service!  a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.


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SilverPotato

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:26 pm Location: Atlanta, GA

qqwref wrote: For 7x7x7 center solving, I use 1x5 rows nearly exclusively. Sometimes I make 2x5 blocks if it's easy to set up. For the last two centers, I start by solving the leftmost three rows: 11100 11100 11100 11100 11100 You always have enough freedom of movement to do this. In fact you have enough freedom to now make a fourth row every time: 11110 11110 11110 11110 11110 For the last row, all you can do is get the Tcenter and the two Xcenters (not the two oblique ones). So this means that you can always end up with at least this: 11111 11110 11111 11110 11111 The last two (or fewer!) centers can be done with Niklastype commutators, which are quite fast indeed. The same kind of thing works for bigger cubes, but the best you can get with this technique changes a bit depending on the cube's size. For example on a 9x9, using this technique, the best you can do without any commutators is 1111111 1111110 1111100 1111111 1111100 1111110 1111111 When did we convert to binary? I'm just teasing Would someone explain the 1s and 0s to me?


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flaakinator

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:47 pm

The problem i have is solving the last two set of centers for both...
For the 6x6x6, for the first 4 centers i set up a 3x3x3 then a 3x3x4 and insert the last 1x1x4.
But when i only have two centers left it gets hard.
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numegil

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:52 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:26 am Location: Saratoga, CA

SilverPotato the 1s and 0s represent the two different colors of the last two unsolved centers.
qqwref Awesome, your way of doing the last two centers is way better! Also, how do you go about solving the last 4 edges? As of right now, I solve one edge at a time, working from the inside out, and then solve any potential parities only on the last edge.
Also, I think it would be really cool and appreciated by many people if bigcubes.com would expand to include 6s and 7s. I understand that Vcubes is working on solution pages right now, but it is my understanding that they would be mostly intended for those first trying to solve the cube at all, whereas bigcubes.com could go into detail on optimization, additional algs, method variations, etc. In fact, I would be personally glad and honored to write such pages for bigcubes.com once I find the optimal way to solve these things, or maybe once someone whose had these for a while (perhaps from Idaho?) were to share some insight onto this matter.


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chris

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:46 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:03 pm

numegil wrote: bigcubes.com and numegil wrote: someone who's had these for a while (perhaps from Idaho?) Same people. And even numegil wrote: Vcubes is working on solution pages I bet.


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qqwref

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:07 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:12 pm Location: NY, USA

numegil wrote: Also, how do you go about solving the last 4 edges? As of right now, I solve one edge at a time, working from the inside out, and then solve any potential parities only on the last edge. Yeah, kind of tricky... Guess I might as well explain what I do. The edges method I use nowadays is called MultiReduction. Basically the way it works is that you solve the edges, instead of one edge at a time, in multiple steps, and each step reduces it to the edges of a smaller cube. For example... on a 7x7x7 you have five pieces to each edge. The first step (which you do just like 5x5x5 edges) would pair up the middle three pieces on each edge. Then the second step would solve the rest of the edges just like a 5x5x5. For a 6x6x6, you'd pair up the middle two like 4x4x4 edges, and then do the same second step. So it turns out that you can solve all of the edges on any NxNxN cube with a bunch of steps where each step is just like 4x4x4 edges or 5x5x5 edges. As far as I can tell it's not any less efficient than doing the edges all at once, but the recognition/lookahead is definitely better. Anyway, if you still want to do edges your way, I'd do it one edge at a time  do stuff like 3u' flip edge 3u, solving one piece at a time for the first three edges, and then for the last edge use the parity algorithm to flip everything you have to. It takes a while though, especially that awful allinone parity.
_________________ My official times My youtube Puzzle Solving Service!  a puzzle that has never been scrambled and solved has been wasted.


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numegil

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:32 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:26 am Location: Saratoga, CA

Chris, what I meant to say was that many of the speedcubers who want to get faster at the bigger cubes will want to go to bigcubes.com for help. Vcubes.com may have solutions up shortly, but they will likely be very beginner and won't cover many of the more advanced concepts. Some other source of information should be made available to those who already know how to solve the cubes, but want to become faster. Bigcubes.com seems like the most logical location to put this information. It really doesn't matter who takes the time to write up the actual descriptions, so long as they get published there. (And anyway, bigcubes.com seems rather incomplete without these new cubes)
_________________ 3x3 Average: 20.78
5x5 Single: 2:34.xx
3x3 BLD: 2:15.88
Nothing else matters...


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Kal El

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:55 pm Location: Boise, ID

What if the guys behind bigcubes.com are providing the solutions for vcubes.com? Don't worry, the solutions are on the way. Frank Morris (From Idaho)


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perfredlund

Post subject: Re: Websites for solving 6x6x6 and 7x7x7 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:58 am 

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am Location: Norway

Kal El wrote: What if the guys behind bigcubes.com are providing the solutions for vcubes.com? Don't worry, the solutions are on the way. Frank Morris (From Idaho) Hi Are they going to be like the ones here?? Or are they working on something else ??  Per
_________________ "Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans" John Lennon, Beautiful Boy


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