САВА 4*8+8 twisty puzzle

This high-quality twisty puzzle was patented in the year 2004.
It is extremely rare, and I am selling only one in this auction.

dimensions: 120 mm * ⌀50 mm
puzzle weight: 105 g

bidding
Place your anonymous bid(s) by sending me a private message.
The minimum bid is 990 руб. (Russian rouble) + shipping cost.
1 euro ≈ 40 руб. ≈ 105 дин.
1 us$ ≈ 30 руб. ≈ 78 дин.
(sources: http://cbr.ru and http://nbs.rs)

end of auction
This legendary auction ends on «Савиндан – Дан Духовности»
(Saint Sava's Day), i.e. the 27th day of January, 2011, according
to the Gregorian calendar (January 14th in the Julian calendar).
The winning bidder will remain anonymous and will be contacted
on the 28th or on the 29th of January.

buy it now
There is an undisclosed "buy it now" price. If your bid is higher
than the b.i.n. price, you will be contacted and this auction may
end sooner than mentioned above.

shipping cost
The cost of shipping depends on your geographical location
and on the type of shipping method you choose. For instance,
to Belarus:

• by registered airmail – 630 дин.
• express mail (EMS) – 2400 дин.

to Cuba:

• by standard shipping – 390 дин.
• by registered airmail – 705 дин.

to Iran (Islamic Republic of):

• by registered mail – 525 дин.
• by standard airmail – 525 дин.

payment methods

• WebMoney
• MoneyGram
• Western Union

Всё ясно?!

Can anybody speak for this auction?
I don't recognize the seller, they aren't using ebay or another trusted auction site, the picture looks generic, the price is high, I don't recognize the puzzle and paypal purchase isn't an option. I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything, but some form of reassurance would be nice from any trusted forum members.

Possibly, PayPal isn't offered which has decent buyer protection. I think that a little more has to be found out before we totally write off this auction, although I'll admit that it does seem a bit suspicious.

Alex

A little more information was all I was asking for. Although I will note that in talking to Roxanne, she mentioned that the price was superfluous and that she didn't recognize the puzzle.

This individual from Serbia had been blocked from Russian speedcubing site multiple times after he started insulting the forum members. That was over a year ago. Since then he has been creating new accounts repeatedly and posting new insults, either on the forum or in personal messages. Every time he had been blocked again. General consensus is that this gentleman is not mentally fit, as they say.

I believe that this puzzle is a figment of the imagination. Sorry.

Legit or not, Paypal system is also unavailable in Russia.

It is available, but only for payments. You can't receive money on PayPal accounts in Russia. You can receive refunds though.

Then again, this individual is in Serbia. The may not have PayPal there at all.

This is the part I find most suspicious. Why would anyone have an undisclosed BIN price? It means that every bidder could be contacted and told they had won and therefore need to pay.

Exactly, which suggests there must be more than one, and it's not very rare at all (just look how many of them are crammed in the picture!). And that's assuming you will actually get the puzzle once you've "won" and paid for it...

My picture refers to problems on the buyer's end, not the seller's end. None of those payment methods allow for dispute resolution if the purchase goes bad. That's a lot of trust to give for:

• A member who joined less than 30 days ago
• A puzzle most people don't recognize
• A secret auction, so you don't know what a fair price is
• Secret notification of a win, so you don't even know if the seller notified multiple "winners"

From my perspective as a consumer, the above problems render any deal dead in the water. This deal is too risky.

The puzzle looks interesting, but I don't even know how it moves. A video would help greatly, but I don't know what video sites are available to the seller in his area of Russia.

I also looked online to see if there are any secure payment methods available in Russia for a buyer outside of Russia, but was unable to find one. I imagine one exists, but I think I'm looking in the wrong places.

Aleksey, do you know of any secure payment methods for Russia? Maybe the seller could use another form of payment. Even if the seller doesn't use it, I'm sure other forum members would appreciate knowing some way they could pay for a puzzle in Russia safely if PayPal isn't an option.

To the seller: Would you consider shipping the puzzle to a trusted friend outside of Russia and conducting an eBay auction from there? I think most people will consider this buy too risky as it stands.

There are no secure methods of payments between individuals available in Russia that I know of. I can give some advices on cheaper and/or more convenient methods of payment, but no method offers any kind of safety. Once the payment is made, the money's gone. There's no way of getting it back should anything go wrong.

If you were buying something from a store in Russia using your credit card then your general safety measures would apply. But money transfers between individuals is an one-way road in Russia.

As for this particular puzzle I strongly advise to reread my message above and make your choice. Personally I believe it's a scam.

Based on what everyone is saying, I would suggest we delete this thread and drop the mighty ban-hammer on the account.

-d

I actually would like to keep the thread up. Aleksey's information alone was worth reading for me. Locking the thread might be helpful later, but I would at least give the original poster a chance to allay some of our concerns. It's a horrible auction, but he is still innocent until proven guilty.

No, I disagree. We have no real evidence against this auction, albeit it is very suspicious. If everyone ignores it (which is most likely, based on the above comments), no harm will come of it, and the nature of the auction may or may not be revealed.

Most likely this person will not try this type of thing again, and if they do, THEN we should make a more in-depth inquiry into the auction.

If the seller can give evidence that the auction is legitimate, no action needs to be taken at all.

I think the author of this thread is very bold. Money transfers + Western Union = Scam.

Paypal is worldwide. Secret buy it now price? Really?

Hello everyone, thank you for your interest in this auction.
I have received a serious bid which was slightly higher than the "buy it now" price I had in mind, and it looks like this auction will end sooner than expected. To protect the winning bidder's privacy, I am not going to disclose the b.i.n. price; of course, it would be alright with me if he or she decides to do so himself/herself.


If you speak Russian, you can ask the Russian and European champion Сергей Рябко (Sergey Ryabko) whom he bought his second speedcube from. Pusha asked me nicely, if he could pay after receipt of the package rather than in advance. If anyone on this forum had asked me nicely, I would have agreed to such a deal, too.
Relevance?



Ciao, Aleksey-tell-tale, how are you doing? What a nice greeting for a long-lost friend


After reading this I am sure general consensus might be right


I'm not even sure what to say about all the bits I've just cut

Who let this one in??
In conclusion,


I think we will leave this as a warning to all who are interested in purchasing from this gentleman. I know nothing about prior transactions and issues on other forums. However, I WILL NOT TOLERATE (nor will any other moderators) this type of posting on TP. If you cannot behave, you will get the ban stick quickly and hard!
While TP does not vouch for its members or auctions/sales posted here, we do remind you to be very wary of making purchases of this type. There is no recourse if you are scammed.
As another piece of advice, if one of the TP members is considering purchasing this puzzle, please take a look at the joining date and number and type of posts made by said fellow. BUYER BEWARE!!

All I can say is, if there is no promising information about this sale, avoid it. If you are at all skeptical, stay out. We don't need a repeat of last year's Dogic/Cheese scam.

But will the buyer get the item? That is yet to be seen. Hopefully the buyer will post a video once the object is received so we can all be proven wrong. If not...



Wow. You're a real class act. I can't imagine why you got banned before.

To the mods: I wouldn't mind seeing a little excessive ban-stick use on this loser, just on general principle. Or maybe borrow kastellorizo's Cube Smasher.

<George W. Bush/Joe Biden yakkity yak snipped with extreme prejudice>
Thanks for posting why you can't use PayPal, but all we needed was the PayPal info. Not all the political stuff.


<Aleksey-bashing parts also snipped with extreme prejudice>
You're really winning friends and influencing people around here. I've known of you for less than 24 hours, and already I'm tired of you. I can't imagine putting up with you for any length of time.

Can this guy just get permanently banned from now? I'd hate to see him become the next S.Rubiks.

Please, mods, please?

That is, if a buyer actually exists and this Russian guy didn't just panic and end the auction.

Buyer, come forth.

Ky6ucMo:

I have personally received dirty insults from you in my PM on the Russian forum when you registered once again some time back. Other forum members received it as well.

Nevertheless I offer you to send one puzzle to me so that I could personally vouch that the puzzle does exist. I will make photos and a video of the puzzle. I promise to buy the puzzle afterward, or pass it to a buyer if I consider the price too high for me.

That was my immediate thought too.

Alex

Torturing the puzzling community for 2 years [and finally terminated by the same - moderator].~ Happy 2 year anniversary!

Did the mods really change his sig to that?

*puts on Captain Obvious hat*

The puzzle looks awfully like the Space Massager a certain person we all know and love has been raging about for years, IIRC. It is missing the massage function, though!

It would have been something I would have been interested in had the price and terms been right...
Ben

When I first saw this I thought "squared off Massager" Then I noticed the price! Next the method of payment and put the thought out of my mind.

When I woke this morning, I was disgusted by the postings made. The BAN STICK has been wielded. This is NOT the type of postings we want on TP. It will NOT BE TOLERATED. The un-nasty bits have been left in as a warning to all who would be interested in a transaction of this sort. Please read Aleksey's posts. They may prove useful in future.

And (ladies) and gentlemen please control yourselves a bit. I really don't enjoy having to do this type of editing first thing in the morning. Nor do I like that BAN STICK thing. Under normal circumstances, people are given a short ban and a second chance. After what I read today, I don't believe this to be normal circumstances. I do hope the other moderators will agree with me on this one.

Aleksey, thank you for remaining a true gent through all this. My hat goes off to you

It looks like a permanent ban is in order for this individual. If it were up to a vote you'd definitely have mine! ;o)

kev

What happened to the cheese?

Tim.

Everybody who paid via PayPal got their money back. See the original topic from May-Aug 2010: http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17170

Skarabajo.

I like seeing the mods kick a**

I don't like when scammers join the forum, but on my end I have to admit I laugh all the time (except when money is lost of course)

- Greg

It went bad.

That was the day when the Puzzle Ninja had Cheese for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
But without PayPal, things would have been very very complex.

As for the new case, Cube Smasher it is!!!




Pantazis


PS. If the seller is legitimate, the only option I could suggest, is that the next time
he travels to a PayPal friendly country, to make a one-to-one deal with a local seller.
That way, not only collectors could get a nice puzzle in their hands, but it could also
confirm that the seller is not a scammer.

Can you at least post a picture of the puzzle with your username next to the puzzle? (i.e. via scrap piece of paper and pen). I won't make any accusations, but posting such a picture would probably help you.

You're posting in the very thread that got you kicked out the first time?

Really, dude? Really?