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 Post subject: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:11 pm 
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They're being discontinued.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/08/di ... sktop.html

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:21 pm 
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hmmmm, for the cost of one extremely expensive puzzle!

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:33 pm 
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Yes, but with none of the loving workmanship and handcrafted beauty! :) I still miss that puzzle, Reeeech. :|

Drew poiinted out to me that the resolution of this printer may not be high enough for puzzles. But I see this as a great sign that the prices of 3d printers may be dropping out of the stratosphere in the coming years.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:36 pm 
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io wrote:
Yes, but with none of the loving workmanship and handcrafted beauty! :) I still miss that puzzle, Reeeech. :|

Drew poiinted out to me that the resolution of this printer may not be high enough for puzzles. But I see this as a great sign that the prices of 3d printers may be dropping out of the stratosphere in the coming years.



Maybe even the Troposphere!!!.... sorry, taking meteorology so....

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:09 pm 
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io wrote:

Drew poiinted out to me that the resolution of this printer may not be high enough for puzzles. But I see this as a great sign that the prices of 3d printers may be dropping out of the stratosphere in the coming years.



I can only agree.

Sure, it may not be the highest quality (as it stated it only prints in low-res, so you can't print another printer or an AK! lol)... but it's becoming more accessible, and well if a puzzle builder does get one, it can only add to his experience in what needs to be done - as he can do it on his own, rather than going to a professional printing service.


If I knew more about this stuff, I'd love to get my hands on one. Heck, I'd even print puzzles for free until I get the hang of it.
[/dreaming...]

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:35 pm 
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If I have a 3d printer can I simply "print" the .stl files in plastic?

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Cool little prototyping toy, I would say.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:37 pm 
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PikAssO7 wrote:
If I have a 3d printer can I simply "print" the .stl files in plastic?
That is what they are for.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:27 pm 
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Location: Oregon, USA
reeeech wrote:
io wrote:

Drew poiinted out to me that the resolution of this printer may not be high enough for puzzles. But I see this as a great sign that the prices of 3d printers may be dropping out of the stratosphere in the coming years.

I can only agree.

Sure, it may not be the highest quality (as it stated it only prints in low-res, so you can't print another printer or an AK! lol)... but it's becoming more accessible, and well if a puzzle builder does get one, it can only add to his experience in what needs to be done - as he can do it on his own, rather than going to a professional printing service.

Actually the resolution is higher than you might think. The layers in the Z axis are much thinner than FDM. Edges in the XY plane have smooth, continuous contours without stair-stepping. But despite the impressively-thin layers, stair-stepping in the Z axis is distractingly severe because each layer has a sharp edge, not rounded like FDM.

The Invision LD is simply a Solido SD300 with a few enhancements. Solido incorporated those enhancements into their original model and now sell it as the SD300 Pro.

I've been following these models for a long time because they have some unique and interesting quirks.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:30 am 
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I bet the material is very expensive though. Even if the print cost was cheap you still have to factor in materials, binding agents (if they exist), time, software, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:48 am 
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yea, im looking into getting a v-flash. it says that the retail price is 9,900
but in the end of the purchase you end up spending 13-14k

although it is much better resolution

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 Post subject: Re: Cheap 3d printers (Invision LD) $5000
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Garrett wrote:
I bet the material is very expensive though. Even if the print cost was cheap you still have to factor in materials, binding agents (if they exist), time, software, etc.

Each material kit is $350, which works out to $1.55/sq inch (or $0.10 per cubic centimeter) of build material. That makes it massively cheaper than other systems, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison because the Invision LD always builds parts within a solid block. Build cost is always determined by the active "build volume" not the amount of material in the finished part, forcing the operator to figure out how to efficiently arrange parts.

The reason materials are so cheap is that they're very simple: a 35 lb roll of PVC film, welding solvent, masking fluid, and 3 applicator "pens".

I've been following the Invision LD and SD 300 machines since 2007, so here's what I've learned about them:
  • XY resolution: Each layer is cut from a PVC sheet with a positioning accuracy of about 0.1 mm (~254 dpi). There's no stair-stepping or other resolution defects in the XY plane because the cutter head can move smoothly along diagonals and curves.
  • Z axis resolution: The PVC sheet is 0.168mm thick, so the Z axis has an effective resolution of ~150 dpi. The edges of the cuts are sharp & square, so stair-stepping artifacts are severe in the Z axis.
  • Colors: Available colors are amber-transparent, opaque white (beige), opaque black, opaque blue, and opaque red. The transparent material is very clear looking straight down, but variably translucent at any other angle.
  • Post processing: The machine builds parts within a solid block of material. The machine scores and glues the excess (waste) material into ribbons so the user can pull them away using special tools provided with the machine. Enclosed hollow parts can be difficult or impossible.
  • Surface finish: The sides of the parts have a dull grooved texture like FDM, but with sharper edges. Top & bottom surfaces can have a mirror-glossy finish if they're absolutely aligned with the build plane, but that requires careful planning.
  • Flexural strength: Parts are very strong in the XY plane because they're made of intact PVC sheets. In the Z axis strength depends on cross-sectional area; narrow areas are most prone to breakage.
  • Special features: Parts can be built with 'living hinges' like SLS.

These are certainly interesting machines, but not so good as general-purpose modelers due to all the oddities. If I owned one I would probably design parts specifically around the machine's unique traits, rather than using off-the-shelf STLs.


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