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 Post subject: New 3D Construction Studio puzzle
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:36 pm 
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Okamoto-san does it again...

Wow.

http://puzzle3d.hp.infoseek.co.jp/sub5-1.html

Look at the puzzle at the top and click on that link to see details.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:01 pm 
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Holy $&*#(@*&$!!!! Finally! the pyraminx crystal!! OMG is all I can say.

wow wow wow wow wow wow wow.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:30 pm 
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:cry: Sure I just got 2 puzzles off the puzzle wanted list and he then does this puzzle which I do love. God I love all of his puzzles :oops: .

Dear God I hope he shows this puzzle to mefferts :wink: . :?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:45 pm 
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whoa

do you know how he made the 3x3x1 or the mechanism? cause that is CRAZY cool

-chris joe


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:08 pm 
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The 3x2x1 uses a spring loaded central piece that helps keep the pieces in place. As the layers rotate around the center the middle expands out a bit while keeping tension on the tongues.

How I envy the man's access to such awesome tools. I'll just have to get rich enough to buy some real industrial machines.

Were we still taking nominations for coolest new puzzle mod for 2005? In my mind's eye I think we have a winner.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:43 pm 
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chris_joe wrote:
whoa

do you know how he made the 3x3x1 or the mechanism? cause that is CRAZY cool

-chris joe


Jin H Kim wrote:
The 3x2x1 uses a spring loaded central piece that helps keep the pieces in place.


Jin!! Is that a typo or are you talking about the wrong puzzle by accident.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:20 pm 
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I was trying to bring attention to the Pyraminx Crystal of course, but a question was raised about the 3x2x1 on that same page so I was compelled to answer.


Ugh.. reading that again... Yes, it was a typo but because for some reason I was incorrectly picturing the dimensions. 3x3x1.

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Last edited by Jin H Kim on Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:49 pm 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
I was trying to bring attention to the Pyraminx Crystal of course, but a question was raised about the 3x2x1 on that same page so I was compelled to answer.


Perhaps, chris_joe want to say, "3x3x1 cube's each corner can be popped completely each rotation. His technique can be imagined from the cube, too." don't you?

3x2x1 cube's corners can be hold by central two pieces, but 3x3x1 cube's corners are popped completely.
I can't believe his 3x3x1 cube's core yet.

Of course, his Pyraminx-Crystal (He named it to 'Mega-Crystal') technique is unbelievable, too.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:57 pm 
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Hidetoshi wrote:
Jin H Kim wrote:
I was trying to bring attention to the Pyraminx Crystal of course, but a question was raised about the 3x2x1 on that same page so I was compelled to answer.


Perhaps, chris_joe want to say, "3x3x1 cube's each corner can be popped completely each rotation. His technique can be imagined from the cube, too." don't you?

3x2x1 cube's corners can be hold by central two pieces, but 3x3x1 cube's corners are popped completely.
I can't believe his 3x3x1 cube's core yet.

Of course, his Pyraminx-Crystal (He named it to 'Mega-Crystal') technique is unbelievable, too.


I was hoping to correct myself before anybody else noticed, but I was too late. :)

I have parts of a 3x2x1 (not 3x3x1) sitting at my workbench, never completed. It is sad, but there are lots of unfinished puzzles around me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:04 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
I was hoping to correct myself before anybody else noticed, but I was too late. :)

But your quickly contribution and following is greatful.
Because I knew his site's update about few hours before, and I knew besides, his site was updated only few hours before from your contribution.

And sorry about overshoot myself. :cry:

Jin H Kim wrote:
I have parts of a 3x2x1 (not 3x3x1) sitting at my workbench, never completed. It is sad, but there are lots of unfinished puzzles around me.


Me, too. I have some unfinished puzzles. I must to finish my Bump Cube quickly. :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:25 am 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
Dear God I hope he shows this puzzle to mefferts :wink: . :?


And *I* hope it has already been sitting in a drawer of Uwe collecting dust.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:22 am 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
I have parts of a 3x2x1 (not 3x3x1) sitting at my workbench, never completed. It is sad, but there are lots of unfinished puzzles around me.


This puzzle seems to be an obvious one, and the only trouble that it has to be made from scratch. Did I ever send you my ideas on how it could be made a little bit easier from stock parts and with simple tools/jigs?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:13 am 
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Drool ... Um yeah another puzzle I can't have I love that thing it's like a dodecahedron square-1 sort of but anyway I'm now going off to sulk about my inability to own that wonderfull puzzle now that I've seen one not made from cardboard. Does anyone know how to get his puzzles and how much they run when they are available??


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:49 pm 
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It's so awesome!
I love it to bits!
It must be a new mechanism!
Vadim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:38 pm 
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He could have reused a Megaminx internal spider for the puzzle if he wanted to. Pretty much everything else would be from scratch.

I really like the fact that he adheres to the dimensions of existing puzzles, in this case the skewb ultimate. This makes me think that he did indeed reuse a Megaminx spider inside as it would be more difficult to make the Pyraminx Crystal the same size as a Megaminx if he did.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:39 pm 
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Aleksey wrote:
Jin H Kim wrote:
I have parts of a 3x2x1 (not 3x3x1) sitting at my workbench, never completed. It is sad, but there are lots of unfinished puzzles around me.


This puzzle seems to be an obvious one, and the only trouble that it has to be made from scratch. Did I ever send you my ideas on how it could be made a little bit easier from stock parts and with simple tools/jigs?


Never received any plans. I would love to see them so I can compare what I planned on doing before getting majorly sidetracked.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:11 pm 
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Here's what I'd come up with as a trivial 3x2x1 mechanism. The 3x2 and 3x1 blocks are cross-sections. The lone block on the left is a face-on view of a corner cubie.

The center cubies are attached with a trivial axis like a Boob Cube. The four corners each have a half-circle foot, with a corresponding groove in the center cubie they touch. A 2x1 slice can turn using the feet as the axis. When you turn a 3x1 slice the feet are held in by the opposing middle cubies.

Never built one, though - I realized the 3x3x2 and 3x2x2 were actually less work!


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3x2x1.GIF
3x2x1.GIF [ 2.23 KiB | Viewed 13739 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:18 pm 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
I really like the fact that he adheres to the dimensions of existing puzzles, in this case the skewb ultimate.

Actually, the novelty of these puzzles aside, this is what makes me admire his works so much. It's the feeling of perfection that I get when I look at these puzzle. Everything is well thought over, even the outer dimensions. I guess it's the japanese thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:10 pm 
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Isn't the Mega Crystal something? Just when I think there are no more interesting puzzles to be made..... Outstanding!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:18 am 
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http://chrono.org/puzzles/1x2x3.jpg

That is a sketch I made back in 2/2004 when Juozas Granskas(SP?) first showed us pictures of his puzzle. As you can see, the design is pretty universal about how it can be made. As always the execution is the tricky part. I KNOW how a Pyraminx Crystal is made. I can see all of the parts sliding across each other as the puzzle turns. But I'll be a monkey's uncle before I can get my hands on the tools I need to make the precise, repeatable parts needed for the puzzle.

Of course not saying that any person with machine tools is capable of doing this kind of work, and I'm not implying that I WOULD be able to make the same quality work. I'll just quit talking and go look at the glorious picture once again before I go and embarrass myself further.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:28 pm 
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Jin H Kim wrote:
and I'm not implying that I WOULD be able to make the same quality work. I'll just quit talking and go look at the glorious picture once again before I go and embarrass myself further.


Jin,

Don't sell yourself short, I have no doubt you could make some great puzzles with CNC.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:06 pm 
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Vadim wrote:
It must be a new mechanism!
Vadim


Jin H Kim wrote:
He could have reused a Megaminx internal spider for the puzzle if he wanted to.


Jin! Then how would the edge pieces move then?

I do remember a discussion of that Sandy and Jaap were talking about making the Pyraminx Crystal from a Dogic mechanism. Sorry I do not know where the post is at. Does anybody remember this at all and also were they on the right course??


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:40 pm 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
Jin H Kim wrote:
He could have reused a Megaminx internal spider for the puzzle if he wanted to.

Jin! Then how would the edge pieces move then?

See the last post by MaxWiz here. The edges would be new pieces, sliding over the surface of a Megaminx that had been ground down to a sphere, and they would be retained by the (extended) megaminx corner pieces. No doubt many people have independently had the same idea; for example, see here, where it was discussed in a little more detail. Doing it that way would be a lot of work, and at the time I wasn't totally convinced that the puzzle would be stable against edge pops.

Whatever method was actually used, this new "Mega Crystal" looks very impressive.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:45 pm 
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Darren, the simplest way to make a pyraminx crystal is to start with a megaminx, then build out the corners so that they hold in the crystal edges, then build out the corners and crystal edges so the whole thing is a dodecahedron again.

I'm guessing that's what Hidetoshi did.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:53 pm 
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Katsuhiko Okamoto told me in an email today that Jin Kim is correct. He did build the Mega Crystal with the Megaminx as the base.

He also indicated that the mechanism for the 3x3x1 is different from the 3x2x1, but I don't have any more detail than that.

I wish we could come up with a reasonably economical way to build 100 of each of Okamoto-san's puzzles. Wouldn't it be amazing if we could each own copies of these treasures?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:15 pm 
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Thank you Carter and everyone else for clearing up the information on the mechanism for the Pyraminx Crystal(a.k.a. Mega Crystal). Now I understand and also now I'm on the same book and page as the rest of you. :wink:

BTW!! Does anybody know what the colors he used?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:26 pm 
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Incredible!

I doubt this can be made from a megaminx. I thought it was based on the pentultimate which hasn't been cracked yet.

Maybe I'm wrong. I can't remember. This is a deep cut puzzle, the megaminx isn't.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:57 pm 
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sausage wrote:
Incredible!

I doubt this can be made from a megaminx. I thought it was based on the pentultimate which hasn't been cracked yet.

Maybe I'm wrong. I can't remember. This is a deep cut puzzle, the megaminx isn't.


Heh, see Carter's post two posts above yours. :)


As for the 3x3x1 vs the 3x2x1, yes they are quite different. My initial mention of the 3x2x1 was a faux pas.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:42 pm 
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The Megaminx Crystal – excellent.
Another piece of excellence from Katsuhiko Okamoto
Recently I had just thought of a way to achieve this, and it was going to be my first new puzzle of next year, don’t know when though.
This puzzle has, as I’m sure is the case with other collectors, fascinated me for years, and I’ve always been surprised Meffert never produced it.
The way I thought of doing it, was to adapt the corner and edge pieces of a regular Megaminx, then attach overlays onto them to give the appearance of the new pieces, these would overlap the centres of the Megaminx keeping everything in tact. The centres would have to be transformed into domes to allow the overlays to rotate. I'd be interested to know how this one is achieved. The finished size of mine would be approx. 2 to 3mm larger than the original puzzle (face to opposite face dimension).
Katsuhiko's puzzle is another example of his amazing manufacturing process, and quality, that is again the envy of us all.
Good to see another masterpiece in production.

Anthony


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:05 pm 
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sausage wrote:
Incredible!

I doubt this can be made from a megaminx. I thought it was based on the pentultimate which hasn't been cracked yet.

Maybe I'm wrong. I can't remember. This is a deep cut puzzle, the megaminx isn't.


Well, I THOUGHT I'd cracked the Pentultimate... unfortunately, I was wrong. What I was thinking was that it could be done with a mechanism like the inside of a 2x2x2 cube, where you'd have internal tracks that the pieces glide over top of. The problem is, to build such a mechanism, which I worked out to needing a 30 armed spider inside to hold it all together, would all be fused together, allowing for NO movement at all. If it's partially fused inside, it would have restricted movement, like a bandaged cube with invisible bandagings. If there's NO pieces fused inside, then the puzzle would disintegrate. So far, I haven't been able to come up with a workaround that would actually work. L8r.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:41 pm 
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Has anyone actually tried building a PentUltimate with the patented mechanism:

Patent Number: US4558866
Inventor(s): William L. Alford
Date Issued: December 17, 1985

Basically: a metal sphere with the pieces held on by magnets. Tracks optional.

It'd never be a speed-cubing mechanism. I also think the pieces would probably leap off the sphere when twisting pressure was applied.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:45 pm 
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For me, magnets take away the charm of making a twisty puzzle truly a "twisty puzzle." For me it's a big deal that a puzzle is completely self contained and self supporting. Magnetic puzzles can certainly be really innovative and interesting in their own right.

Honestly though I probably have one of the strictest interprations of what makes a twisty puzzle truly that in my mind's eye.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:22 pm 
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I'm with you, Jin Kim: magnets are okay, but somehow they just don't quite fit in the category of twisty puzzles.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:58 pm 
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Carter wrote:
I'm with you, Jin Kim: magnets are okay, but somehow they just don't quite fit in the category of twisty puzzles.


Anybody remember Daniel Tseng? I know he made puzzles from a Magic Attractor. I think there just magnets. He has a good size amount of information when we were on Tistymegasite at the time. If you want to see all of the information just use the search engine to find all the info about him on this form. The puzzles were called Dyna Cubes.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:46 pm 
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Tim, the pentultimate can be made as a build-up of the crystal. The edges of the crystal hold down the outer layer of the puzzle. It involves some 'edge' piece of the pentultimate which get hidden under the visible pieces.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:13 pm 
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Bram, this sounds interesting but I can't picture it at all. Can you expand on the idea a little?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:06 am 
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Oops I didn't read Carters post. Bram apparently did crack the true mechanism (without magnets) but I couldn't make head nor tail of it.

My mechanism ideas all failed. I never managed to come up with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:23 am 
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Carter wrote:
Isn't the Mega Crystal something? Just when I think there are no more interesting puzzles to be made..... Outstanding!


Trust me, Carter... there's plenty more mods available to be made. Even the humble Pocket Cube still has more ways in which it can be contorted (anyone out there want to try turning it into a triacontahedron?). I've got an idea for it which I don't think has been developed yet... I just need to wrap my head around the math and get some more experience with the polystyrene sheets. I've got an idea in mind or 2 for 12 sided puzzles, too... but that probably won't be until well into next year at least. As for the Pyraminx Crystal... a very impressive piece of work indeed. It's good to see that it finally came to fruition, even if I won't be able to get one myself. L8r.


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