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 Post subject: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:00 am
Location: Germany, Siegerland
Hi!

As you all may remember, when I was selling my cast Master FTO, I said I was neither going to build others nor to put it on Shapeways. I did this to highlight its uniqueness and increase the value of the item. And I was really going to keep this promise for the buyer. But Konrad (the buyer) said to me afterwards that he would really appreciate if I made a playable good-turning 3D-printed MFTO (it wasn't a secret that the cast one was not easy to turn) and put the design on Shapeways. He convinced me that I should do this job so that he and others could have the possibility to play with this puzzle.

Well if the buyer does not have any objections, others should not do either.

So I considered the flaws in my previous design and made this full 3D-printed puzzle. It is much more accurate, stable and a little smaller (now it has the same size as a commercially available FTO).

I'm going to put it on Shapeways after I make some little changes.

YouTube Video

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Chichester, England
Yay! I love it Timur! I really hope I can buy one of these. Is there any possibility that Meffert could take on such a beast? And may I also ask what you think the price will be around on Shapeways. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:40 pm 
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It's too much filleted on the outside. Otherwise perfect. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Amazing! The turning is flawless! Thank you so much Timur!

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
perfect! I am going to agree with Alaskajoe and say it a little too filleted on the outside. Else it seems just perfect!
Thank you Timur and Konrad!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:42 pm 
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Reminds me of the Professor skewb for some reason...

Excelent work!

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:15 pm 
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alaskajoe wrote:
It's too much filleted on the outside. Otherwise perfect. :)

I think it looks fine as is. You don't need sharp corners poking everywhere. Too sharp pieces don't help the mech either as this casues it to catch more.

Quick question: Are the edges the same length as your shapeways master pyraminx? I was asking because if they are, then I can use the same stickers on mine. If not, that's fine too because the design will be cheaper if it is smaller. :mrgreen:

Also, is there any chances of you working out a deal with Mefferts to produce the master Pyraminx? A production model would complement the Professor nicely.

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:50 pm 
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It's perfect!!!
Maybe the next one to be mass-producted my Mefferts!! ^^

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Location: Germany, Bavaria
Bump, but I think a new thread would not be appropriate.
Actually I have missed this thread until yesterday. Timur has wondered already, why I have not made any comments. :)
For the impatient reader: “A long story has come to a happy end! I can certainly recommend this puzzle.”
Here is some review of the Master Face Turning Octahedron.

History
Timur has posted originally here. As you may remember, the original puzzle was a mixture of casted and printed pieces.
I have won it on Ebay on November 24th, 2010.
I have posted to the rare puzzle thread this on December 1st. Quotes from there:
Timur had written: “If a turn seems apparently hindered, never apply force. In case you do, you’re not likely to break anything, but chances are you’ll see the mechanism in all its beauty."
I had made that experience and even not applying any force.
“My verdict is: Timur has not exaggerated and my feeling of danger is quite justified.
I'm afraid I'll never be able to solve it, because I will see "the mechanism in all its beauty " too often.
Definitely, a printed version would be a partial solution, only. IMHO, some real enhancements of the mechanism are necessary to make it more stable.”


I have written a PM to Timur asking, if he could make an improved fully 3D printed version on December 5th. As he has said above, if the buyer (me) does not care about the aspect of uniqueness, nobody can blame him (the designer), that the (pretty high priced) Ebay puzzle is no longer unique. I liked the idea that I could influence Timur that he would make this puzzle available in an usable and playable form.
I got PM from Timur on April 5th that I could buy it at Shapeways (I had missed this thread from March 29th). He made a special, unique price for me – as the unique Prototype buyer.
There was some delay at Shapeways and I have received the parts on April 21st. Unfortunately, Timur was on vacation at that time. I got some important hints for the assembly yesterday. And now I have another unique version of this puzzle :D (Unique in the sense, that I have been the first one to order it on Shapeways. I hope, I'll be not the last one.) Let me state here, that I do not like so much if puzzles are available to a single person at a unique price. I'm more for the democratic approach supported by Shapeways for custom puzzles.
Until yesterday I lived with the impression that the improved version is still a secret :)

Assembly
I have ordered the puzzle in BSF (Black Strong Flexible, which is White Strong Flexible dyed black).
Next time I'll try WSF and dye the parts with a black marker pen.

Actually, I needed a fundamental - yet simple - hint from Timur: Start with the ball core and adjust the screws until the turning feels right. The outer parts can be installed afterwards.
I had made the mistake to make the screws completely tight and that caused problems.
ImageSo, make the screws a bit loose at the beginning and assemble the 14 pieces plus the four-armed spider, making the ball core with the six corners extruding. (BTW; no washers and springs needed, just 4 M3 screws 10-13 mm long):
- The four triangles in the picture above
- The six cornersImage
- The four trianglesImage
Actually, with these simple hints things are quite obvious.

The rest is not very complicated as well:
- The 8 centres go with two types of adjacent outer centres, four faces with larger trianglesImage
- and four faces with smaller trianglesImage

This makes two types of faces which are opposite to each other.
Build large edges that consist of two edge pieces and two of those outer centre triangles of different type and you will find out easily how things fit together.
Don't be afraid, with these hints the assembly should be pretty straight forward.
One more hint: Some pieces (the little triangles) have tiny holes where superfluous powder could have remained.
Knock them on a table to get rid of this powder

Turning
The puzzles feels a bit loose, but very stable. No dangerous feeling at all. It turned quite smoothly right after the assembly.
It is agreat relief that it turns so much better than the prototype.
Honestly, I have not solved that one and I'm not one who is complaining easily about badly turning puzzles :)
Still, you have to align it and it is not for speedsolving. But you will not have expected that from such a complex custom puzzle, right?
All in all, I'm quite pleased how it turns.
It will certainly improve over time as all my Shapeway puzzles. A few more sessions of lubrication (if you are familiar with WSF, you know what I'm speaking about) and some more breaking in and it will be excellent.

Stickers
I have sent a Coreldraw template to Olivér (Nagy) of this forum and he has produced nice stickers for the puzzle. I followed Timur's advice and made the stickers with an edge length of 12mm before rounding the corners.
I'm quite pleased with the result. Here are some views of the stickered puzzle:
Image
Olivér has lots of colours to choose from.
He offers a set for € 4 plus shipping.
I have used Greg's ironing method in two steps:
- Ironing the surface of the unstickered puzzle right after assembly.
- Ironing on top of the stickers with less heat and just for a few seconds.
It has worked quite nicely (A funny observation: One colour - purple - did not adhere well. I had two sets and both
didn't work. I have replaced the purple you can see on the picture by dark blue and everything is fine.

Size
It is a bit smaller than the (unique = I'm the only one who can make that comparison :lol: ) prototype and has the same size as an FTO from Taiwan:
Image

Image

Solving
I had developed the necessary algos on Gelatinbrain 4.1.5 back in December.
Actually, I managed only one single commutator once on the physical puzzle and gave up.
That was the point in time where I have asked Timur, if he could make a better version. :)
I have never solved a scrambled 4.1.5 (I have never tried any scrambled puzzles on Gelatinbrain) and I'll have to wait for another six weeks, because this master piece will be my birthday gift :D
My impression is, that it is in the same category (how hard it is to solve), as the Pentultimate or Starminx V1 (the real V1).
Maybe the Gelatinbrain experts can compare it better?

Conclusion
I would be surprised if this will ever be mass-produced. At $ 250 it is a very good Shapeways puzzle.
If you can afford it, I wouldn't mind if you go and set and end to the state of "uniqueness" of my puzzle.
Whoever wanted to beat me on Ebay should order it immediately and get a much better puzzle for much less money :lol:

EDIT: I have posted a new thread to gain more recognition. It is more or less identical to this post. I'll leave this one unchanged.
Here is the link to the new thread: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=21146

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Last edited by Konrad on Mon May 02, 2011 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Master FTO (fully printed)
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: Hungary, Budapest
Really nice puzzle.
Congratulations!

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