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 Post subject: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:00 pm 
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Hey all, here I am presenting the Unbandaged Helicopter Cube plus 2x2. The name pretty much explains the functionality of the puzzle, so there is not much to describe. The only thing that may be missed is the "unbandaged" functionality. The puzzle has level one unbandaging equivalent to Oskar's crazy comet Or Tom's Curvy Copter Plus. As you can see in the video, there is a slight problem where the puzzle lock up occasionally. There is a very small fix that needs to be applied, and the change will be made before I sell this puzzle through shapeways (stay tuned for that).

Video don't forget to watch in HD!

Here are a few pictures showing the types of turning:



solved



a 2x2 turn



a helicopter cube turn



a second helicopter cube turn, showing jumbling



showing the unbandaging (not present in a normal helicopter cube)



showing how the corner piece has a part that is mechanically identical (even though they look different)

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Last edited by gingervergo on Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:04 pm 
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No, way dude, a Heli+2x2?? :shock: THAT is AWESoME :D

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:07 pm 
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Another master piece =)

Congratz on your new build.

Sharon

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:35 pm 
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I'm just think about.....would it be easier to solve than normal heli? Well seems not possible...


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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:37 pm 
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FINALLY, two things that I've wanted to see are here.

Shapeways. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:42 pm 
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WOOO! that's so frikkin sick!
i know that everyone who's seen a helicopter cube has imagined this
:D :D :D :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:59 pm 
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This is amazing, I love how you incorporated the unbandaged helicopter cube in this in such a way that you can't tell until you turn it. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:21 pm 
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Could I see some scale?

Amazing work Eric! :D

-Jeong-

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Cool! I want one once you debug it.

Sooo - now I am confused. If the Heli is supposed to be a jumbling puzzle, and if the definition of jumbling entails that one cannot unbandage the puzzle without cutting it to dust, but you've unbandaged it - does it mean that the heli was never really jumbling at all??? Or that your unbandaging is partial, stopping short of the dust stage :-), or that the heli + 2x2 hybrid is not jumbling since it can be unbandaged (but the heli remains jumbling)? And if the latter is true, what does that say about the definitions of jumbling and unbandaging? I mean, isn't adding the 2x2x2 cuts just a form of unbandaging? Which would mean a heli can be unbandaged by adding 2x2x2 cuts and then your unbandaging cuts, which again stops well short of cutting it to dust...
Haven't thought a lot about it, but as I said, confused...

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:28 pm 
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Could it be unbandaged again? Would there be a point?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:33 pm 
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Rob wrote:
Sooo - now I am confused. If the Heli is supposed to be a jumbling puzzle, and if the definition of jumbling entails that one cannot unbandage the puzzle without cutting it to dust, but you've unbandaged it - does it mean that the heli was never really jumbling at all???


He only partially unbandaged it :P

Edit: this was my 100th post!

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Last edited by Katniss on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Nice! Great work as always. Now make it turn like a skewb too!

Chris


Last edited by mizzle576 on Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Wonderful puzzle. Is this much harder to solve than a normal helicopter cube, in terms of unjumbling it? It does look so much more fun to solve than a normal heli, getting the pieces into the correct place won't be as much of a pain when 2x2x2 turns are added.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:55 pm 
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With these same cuts you can have a Skewb+2x2x2. This, however, is far more awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:55 pm 
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Rob wrote:
Sooo - now I am confused.

portal1920 wrote:
He only partially unbandaged it :P


What he said... or as Eric said in his first post...

gingervergo wrote:
The puzzle has level one unbandaging equivalent to Oskar's crazy comet Or Tom's Curvy Copter Plus.


Level One Unbandaging = One level of unbandaging. There are infinately many...

And GREAT PUZZLE...

And am I correct in saying this Level One Unbandaged Helicopter Cube Plus 2x2x2 was built before the Level One Unbandaged Helicopter Cube by itself? Is that what Tom's Curvy Copter Extra would look like if it were made with strate cuts? Just amazed to see this combination built before both of its core puzzles had been built in this form.

Now imagine the Skewb cuts added to this and it would still just look like your basic Helicopter Cube.

Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:52 pm 
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Master Puzzle!

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:58 pm 
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grigr wrote:
Master Puzzle!

was that a complement or a request?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Good stuff! I still dont get the "unbandaged" part tho..
Now please add the final 4 deep cuts and we will have the Skew-by-2-Copter :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:18 am 
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Awesome Eric! I saw this on the IRC last night, and it looks amazing. I can't wait for this to be uploaded on Shapeways. Any idea of the price?

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:08 am 
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Congratulations Eric! That's quite a start into the new year! :D :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:51 am 
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Most excellent!


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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:45 am 
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I've been waiting to see that one for a while. Looks great! Nice new camera too!

-pi (Eitan)

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Monopoly wrote:
Wonderful puzzle. Is this much harder to solve than a normal helicopter cube, in terms of unjumbling it? It does look so much more fun to solve than a normal heli, getting the pieces into the correct place won't be as much of a pain when 2x2x2 turns are added.
Yeah, with face turns the helicopter cube doesn't have distinct orbits so there is no difference between an un-jumbled scramble that used jumbling move versus a scramble that used normal face and edge twists. In that sense it is "easier" to solve.

I think the extra level of un-bandaging could make un-jumbling the puzzle significantly harder though. From the pictures it looks like corner piece and face pieces are interchangeable now. I don't quite understand what effect this will have. I'm pretty sure after un-jumbling the total twist of the corners is still fixed but if there is a way to indistinguishably twist a triangle piece then the corner twist would not be maintained.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:21 pm 
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I've seen this in the IRC so you know how much I love it :lol:

Too bad we can see gaps in mid turns :?

Ahhhh If I had a lot of money i'd make you sooo rich ^^

- Greg :)

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Hey, Thanks for the kind words everyone. I'll take the time I have now (I'm snowed in!) to answer some questions about the puzzle.


A lot of people suggested adding 4 deep cuts to the puzzle to also make it turn like a skewb. While it may seem simple, adding another set of cuts introduced a significant number challenges (one of which I have good evidence to show that it may be near impossible to overcome). The helicopter cube mechanism (when used to make a normal looking helicopter cube) needs to be very far from the center of the puzzle. In other words, the sphere that contains the mechanism must be made as large as possible, and because of this, both the skewb and the 2x2 mechanism must be the innermost layers of the puzzle, with the helicopter cube laid on top. The (largest) problem that this brings about is the fact that the 2x2 cuts, along with the skewb cuts, would split the Helicopter cube arms into 6 pieces (shown below).



You may be asking yourself why I already have already printed these parts. The answer is not because I have tried to make a skewb + 2x2 +hc, but because one of the older versions of the Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2 had an additional type of unbandaging that required the exact same types of cuts, applied to the Helicopter cube arms (and another part type), that I described above. The Extra type of unbandaging allowed for the helicopter turns on the puzzle to be turned to the point where the visual line on the hc turn coincides with the 2x2 cut plane that is perpendicular with the helicopter cube plane that the puzzle was already turned on (pictured below). Unfortunately, splitting the arms of the helicopter cube into six parts proved to be too much, and the resulting puzzle was unstable.


notice how the cuts line up perfectly
Image


It's likely that I will try to make a skewb + 2x2 + Helicopter cube at some point this year, but I may get beat to it (because I have now divulged information!), and I have serious doubt that I will be able to get a good, stable puzzle out of it


wwwmwww wrote:
And am I correct in saying this Level One Unbandaged Helicopter Cube Plus 2x2x2 was built before the Level One Unbandaged Helicopter Cube by itself? Is that what Tom's Curvy Copter Extra would look like if it were made with strate cuts? Just amazed to see this combination built before both of its core puzzles had been built in this form.
Carl

As Far as I know, this is the first instance of the unbandaging applied to a normal helicopter cube. ( I am often wrong when I say things like this so I expect a link to a post proving me wrong!)



bmenrigh wrote:
I think the extra level of un-bandaging could make un-jumbling the puzzle significantly harder though. From the pictures it looks like corner piece and face pieces are interchangeable now.

Yes, those pieces are now interchangeable. I consider them the same "type" because they are mechanically the same, but just look different. As for unjumbling the puzzle, It has proven far too difficult for me to do. I jumbled the puzzle turning only two adjacent helicopter cube turns, and it quickly got out of control.




Solving the puzzle is still a bit of a mystery to me, I have not scrambled it up, but I am pretty sure that It can be solved (assuming only 180 degree helicopter turns along with 2x2 turns were used to scramble) that the puzzle can be solved using only helicopter turns. See this post. I have no idea what the solving experience would be like if the puzzle was jumbled.


The puzzle should be for sale on shapeways within the next few days. I'm not sure on the price yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Amazing :D


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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:14 pm 
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gingervergo wrote:
Solving the puzzle is still a bit of a mystery to me, I have not scrambled it up, but I am pretty sure that It can be solved (assuming only 180 degree helicopter turns along with 2x2 turns were used to scramble) that the puzzle can be solved using only helicopter turns. See this post.
Well yes but it would require jumbling helicopter turns. I should have been more specific. If you treat Helicopter cube jumbling moves as regular Helicopter cube moves then there aren't independent orbits of the face triangles and you can simulate a 2x2x2 face turn like Leonid did.

But -- if you allow yourself 2x2x2 turns then you can solve any scramble of the helicopter cube (once it is back in cubic shape) without using jumbling moves.

I don't meant to detract from your excellent design though, this puzzle looks awesome. I'm sure un-jumbling this puzzle is a significant undertaking.

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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:15 pm 
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bmenrigh (from a pm) wrote:
I bet when you really jumble up your helicopter + 2x2x2 the puzzle looks like it has gone through a meat grinder and then been glued back together :twisted: .


Decide for yourself! the puzzle looks fairly straightforward, but the insane amount of overhang bandaging that exists makes even finding a possible move a challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Eric Vergo's Unbandaged Helicopter cube plus 2x2
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:37 am 
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gingervergo wrote:
bmenrigh (from a pm) wrote:
I bet when you really jumble up your helicopter + 2x2x2 the puzzle looks like it has gone through a meat grinder and then been glued back together :twisted: .


Decide for yourself! the puzzle looks fairly straightforward, but the insane amount of overhang bandaging that exists makes even finding a possible move a challenge.
Holy [Censored. Please be nice!], that looks crazy. The only un-jumbling strategy I can come up with involves a hammer and an alibi. It's even hard to tell which spots are supposed to have a triangle and which spots should have a corner. You've made a monster!

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