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What do you think of the new craze of trying to mass-produce lots of puzzles?
Yes, because I can get my hands on these lovely cubes without having to pay hundreds of dollars for one. 61%  61%  [ 46 ]
No, because it's ruining the job professional modders have, and they don't get any credit for their work. 22%  22%  [ 17 ]
Yes, for some other reason. 8%  8%  [ 6 ]
No, for some other reason. 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Who cares? 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 76
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 Post subject: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:28 pm 
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Can be bought on Lightake.com

Linky Links:
http://lightake.com/detail.do/sku.CubeT ... ite_-31567

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvYZ00W152E


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:11 am 
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I bought two Square-2s from LighTake a few days ago. I think it's good for certain puzzes to get mass produced so long as permission is granted from the orignal creator.

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:28 am 
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Location: Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia
I bought mine two weeks ago from Lightake... It should've arrived by now. :? I guess it's being held up at the customs office... again! :x

Seriously, I never had problems with Mefferts, Cube4You, DX or other cube shops based in China / Hong Kong. But my packages from Popbuying/Lightake have (until now) always ended up in the customs office and I had to pay 19% tax. I assume it's due to their "below-average" packaging. Seeing those packages always reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer tried to pay his taxes. :roll:

Back to topic: The more puzzles get mass-produced, the better it is for the community. Professional builders certainly do a great job, but their puzzles are only affordable for a very small percentage of puzzle fans. Mass-producing puzzles makes them widely available and helps to enlarge the puzzle community.
I'm definitely not trying to be offensive and don't intend to play down the achievements of many professional builders, but I think people who voted "No, because it's ruining the job professional modders have, and they don't get any credit for their work." should maybe think a bit less about their personal gain and a bit more about what's good for everyone. But I'd like to know what other people think about this.


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:45 am 
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Location: Germany, Bavaria
SEBUVER wrote:
...I think it's good for certain puzzes to get mass produced so long as permission is granted from the orignal creator.
Do we know, if the permission is granted in this specific case (SQ-2 mass-produced)? As the links are not removed by a moderator, my conclusion is: this is not KO!

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:03 am 
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Paul87 wrote:
...
Seriously, I never had problems with Mefferts, Cube4You, DX or other cube shops based in China / Hong Kong. But my packages from Popbuying/Lightake have (until now) always ended up in the customs office and I had to pay 19% tax.....
A little bit off topic (as you have mentioned yourself): The official tax rules for the Shengen area are: As long as the value is below € 22, no tax is due at all. If this limit is exceeded, the price of the goods and shipping costs are added and the VAT is calculated from this sum.
Given the "free shipping" of Lightake and others (Meffert's, Nowstore...) you can avoid paying tax, quite officially.
Just split your orders!
I have never recognized a pattern which parcels are held up by customs and which not. (But I had never a problem with Meffert's, C4U, popbuying etc. I had only once the case, where shipping and handling costs exceeded the price of the puzzles by far. :lol:
BTW, if the value exceeds € 150, you have to pay import tax as well. For toys this is pretty low.

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:29 am 
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Location: Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia
konsassen wrote:
Paul87 wrote:
...
Seriously, I never had problems with Mefferts, Cube4You, DX or other cube shops based in China / Hong Kong. But my packages from Popbuying/Lightake have (until now) always ended up in the customs office and I had to pay 19% tax.....
A little bit off topic (as you have mentioned yourself): The official tax rules for the Shengen area are: As long as the value is below € 22, no tax is due at all. If this limit is exceeded, the price of the goods and shipping costs are added and the VAT is calculated from this sum.
Given the "free shipping" of Lightake and others (Meffert's, Nowstore...) you can avoid paying tax, quite officially.
Just split your orders!
I have never recognized a pattern which parcels are held up by customs and which not. (But I had never a problem with Meffert's, C4U, popbuying etc. I had only once the case, where shipping and handling costs exceeded the price of the puzzles by far. :lol:
BTW, if the value exceeds € 150, you have to pay import tax as well. For toys this is pretty low.


Yeah... up to now, I've always just tried to stay below 150€, so I don't have to pay that additional tax. But I guess I'll start splitting my orders to get them below 22€ each :roll: Now then... how am I going to split my order for a MF8 Crazy 4x4-II? :P


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:10 am 
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Mine should be hear tomorrow. Landed in England last Saturday morning and still waiting :(

Robert

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:38 am 
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Paul87 wrote:
Yeah... up to now, I've always just tried to stay below 150€, so I don't have to pay that additional tax. But I guess I'll start splitting my orders to get them below 22€ each :roll: Now then... how am I going to split my order for a MF8 Crazy 4x4-II? :P
BTW, the import tax for toys is 4.7% only, you should worry more about the 19% VAT. I've very often received expensive puzzles (e.g. the MF8 Teraminx), where I had to pay no tax whatsoever. The pattern is unpredictable.

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:02 am 
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The only time I have ever paid tax on a puzzle import was a <$200 shapeways order and they charged me $6. However UPS paid the $6 and then billed me ~$15 for them covering it.

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:17 am 
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You should make the poll at the top a multiple choice thing, I'd like to put down a vote for "yes" and "no".

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PB: At home (In Competition)
2x2 1.xx (2.88)
3x3 11.xx (15.81)
4x4 1:18.26 (1:24.63)
5x5 (3:00.02)
6x6 4:26.05 (6:34.68)
7x7 6:38.74 (9:48.81)
OH (35.63)

Current Goals:
7x7 sub 6:30
4x4 sub 1:10


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:21 am 
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Kapusta wrote:
You should make the poll at the top a multiple choice thing, I'd like to put down a vote for "yes" and "no".
You aren't serious, are you? :) If you are, please explain.

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:58 am 
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konsassen wrote:
Kapusta wrote:
You should make the poll at the top a multiple choice thing, I'd like to put down a vote for "yes" and "no".
You aren't serious, are you? :) If you are, please explain.


I'm serious, while I like owning a variety of puzzles, there are a lot of situations where it hurts the builders. I don't think it's a black and white question, personally.

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~Kapusta

PB: At home (In Competition)
2x2 1.xx (2.88)
3x3 11.xx (15.81)
4x4 1:18.26 (1:24.63)
5x5 (3:00.02)
6x6 4:26.05 (6:34.68)
7x7 6:38.74 (9:48.81)
OH (35.63)

Current Goals:
7x7 sub 6:30
4x4 sub 1:10


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:31 am 
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IMHO, if anything it pushes builders to build better puzzles and allows for more people to enjoy simple puzzles like shape mods.


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:35 pm 
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There are a few -if-'s to my yes
A puzzle should no longer actively be made and sold by its original inventor.
It should not break any patents
A small fraction goes to the original inventor.

That is why I love Mefferts aproach

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:48 pm 
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Location: Bay Area, CA
I voted "Yes" because I think for open designs this is a great way for people to enjoy puzzles otherwise out of their reach. As the first person to build a Square-2 I just can't see any problem with this one given the number of other people who have come up with this completely independently. There may be a builder or two who otherwise would have sold a hand built one but there are so many potential designs I don't think this hurts anyone.

That said, I think mass production should stick to open or novel designs and not poach from hobby designers and builders. If they want to produce designs created by others that is great, but in cooperation with them. Meffert has been doing this lately and it has been a great boon for everyone: collectors, designers and the producer.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Where's the option for "No, because everyone's making them in white plastic as the default these days"? :P


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:42 am 
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I voted for "Yes, because ... " but that seems a strange answer to a question that begins

Quote:
What do you think of ...


Of course, there's a lot of middle ground between that selection and your (first) "no" option. My "yes" vote is contingent on builders and designers getting recognition and royalties for their work.


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:30 am 
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Location: California
i think it's a good idea but props should be given to the original creator and it shouldnt be for at least like 4 months or so after the original auction/s so they can make some $$

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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Lightake now has the Square-2 in black.


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 Post subject: Re: SQUARE-2 Mass production
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:59 am 
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Got my Square-2s yesterday, and I have to say that they're very cool! Very fun, but not too hard. I personally would recommend them to anyone!

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3x3x3 average of five: 8.92 seconds.
3x3x3 average of twelve: 9.77 seconds.

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